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Tim240z

R230 Axle assembly: a pictoral review

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So, I froze the end stops in the freezer overnight. Put the two 'housings' in the oven at 400 degrees for two hours; and, zip, zilch, nada. They ain't goin' in! Damn!! I called two machine shops in the area, and neither wanted to even look at my parts.....

I recently replaced one of my CV boots and found out that the CV housings are different sizes based on the model year donor vehicle you get them from. Could it be that you have the smaller housings and the end stops won't fit in them?

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It's definitely a possibility...? It has been so long since I pulled the Diff. & CVs, I'm not even sure what year they came from. I'm thinking '94 because I pulled six sets, and the latest was '95 [it had a smooth cover on the 'pumpkin'] and the earliest was '93. The kit for the conversion that came from MM didn't really specify... that I recall.

I am calling machine shops in the area to see if any of them want to take this on....so far, 0 for 3 !!

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So, to add insult-to-injury, I might have further screwed myself in that I had all of the CVs in a huge crate, and the half dozen or so diffs. on a shelf. As I sold sets off locally, I merely kept a 'set' for myself; and, never bothered to check the mating of the CV to the Output Flange of the Diff. My bolt pattern may not match up now if I miss-matched the CV with the diff...?! CRAP! OR, is it a subtle-enough difference that Nissan didn't change the actual bolt pattern, merely changed the casting of the CV housing...? Let's hope.

 

I called Machine Shop number SIX, and he's willing to give it a try. I'm waiting for the CV housing to cool enough to handle, then I'll make the forty minute trek to let him have a go at it. Wish me luck, please :~)

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The bolt pattern is the same. You will be fine.

 

My stops are a little different than yours but this may work for you also. If a machine shop will not put you stops on a lathe and turn them down, you can use a bench or angle grinder and make them just small enough to go inside the stock end caps.

 

The stock end caps will hold the grease in place and once the axels are bolted in place, the stops will work as they are supposed to.

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I do appreciate the insights of those of you who responded. The machine shop pressed them in. It took all of 20 seconds for both of them!

 

Just as an fyi, indirectly pertained to the notion of different sized CV housings. The End Stops that I struggled with for so long were mic'd at the machine shop. They were .06 larger than the opening of the CV housing. Ironically, JUST before I left to see the machinist, UPS delivered the 'spare' set that Ross was kind enough to send. I brought both sets to the machinist.

 

The 'spare' set mic'd. at .003 larger. Quite a difference! The machinist said that there wasn't ANY way that I was going to get the original set in, no matter how long I baked the housings. The 'spare' set slid right in with the appropriate Arbor Press.

 

So, if I end up needing to use the 'original' set for the outboard side, I'll have to have them machined down.

 

Incidentally, in case anyone in the future runs into trouble and tries my 'baking / freezing' method. The machinist said that the housings need to be 'baked' at 480 degrees or more to 'expand'. So, I baked them for a couple of hours at 400, and I could have baked them for a couple of DAYS and they still wouldn't have expanded.

 

Again, thanks for the support 'jbc3', 'Bartman' and 'Mark'

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Just wanted to share a tiny bit of info. for those that might need it. The Nissan part number for the C-Clip is: 39734-17V20 I chose to replace the little clips rather than re-use what was likely perfectly good original clips. It was very cheap insurance from my perspective.

 

Now, I just need to see if my local AutoZone loans out the special tool to tighten the band clamps.

 

Best of luck to those still in the process of the swap, and thanks VERY much to those that lended some perpectives while I struggled.

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I went with the short nose r200 with 5 bolt flanges. I had Mod-Motosports make me flanges and center sections. what I am concerned with is the fact that there is end play where the c-sections are splined. It wouldnt matter which way I put the ball retainer in because there is at least 1/8-3/16 in of play between the c clip and the retainer. also the c clip isnt the best fit either .should I be concerned with this? Mod Motorsports should be a pretty reputable co. but 1100$ is a lot of cash to spend on potential garbage if these c sections are junk.

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Modern-motorsports assured me that the end play and the c clip play are no problem. I will assemble the cv to the spec. listed above. Thank you for posting the info. I feel confident that my Z will one day be bada_ _ because of the internet and of course the fact that I AM old school Datsun.

 

Beware:SACRLGE

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Tim240z,

 

I've read - and reread - this thread. Now, I have searched for and found many threads pertaining to drivetrain options, but oftentimes they conflict with each other or are in some ways incomplete.

 

Firstly, does it have to be axles from a q45? I've purchased a r230 ('92 300zxTT) that happened to come with two axles that seem to be in good condition. Just the same, I'll be getting new axles when it comes time to modify them. I just figured they would be a cheaper (stronger?) alternative.

 

Secondly, assuming the axles and differential are all sorted, what would you recommend for the other end, and how would it affect the axle modification, if at all? It's my intent to upgrade/replace all of the wearable parts in the car, with an emphasis on improving performance. This is where the concern for suspension, and 5-lug brakes and wheels arises.

 

Lastly, do you still or are you willing to accept a commission to build a finished set (or two)? If so, how much would it cost us?

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In response to Tims dimensions of 12.437" and 12.937", are these the correct lengths for the R230 LSD and Modernmotorsport R230 Flange Adapters?

I talked to Joel - RB26powered74car a few days ago and he measured his assembled R230 axles from Modernmotorsports and they were 12.5" and 13.5".

Im wondering if the fully assembled axle will be longer or technically extend further out then the end of the axle itself. Thanks.

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Where exactly do the end stop's go?

 

Okay, where do these end-stops come from? I don't see them mentioned on the front page and am confused! I see something that looks liek it could be an end stop of some sore on the ModernMotorsports pictorial page but no mention anywhere of the source...

 

Likewise - Speedway doesn't appear to be offering these axles anymore, is there another source? their shortest axles currently listed is 25.5 inches :-(

 

Lastly, this thread is titled R230 axle assembly but mentions the Q45 diff and donor pieces, isn't that an R200 of some sort and not an R230?

 

huh.gif

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Okay, where do these end-stops come from? I don't see them mentioned on the front page and am confused! I see something that looks liek it could be an end stop of some sore on the ModernMotorsports pictorial page but no mention anywhere of the source...

 

Likewise - Speedway doesn't appear to be offering these axles anymore, is there another source? their shortest axles currently listed is 25.5 inches :-(

 

Lastly, this thread is titled R230 axle assembly but mentions the Q45 diff and donor pieces, isn't that an R200 of some sort and not an R230?

 

huh.gif

 

Maybe this thread will help you. I just found it tonight so pretty much had to reinvent the wheel smh

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/48272-mml-q45-halfshaft-lengths/page__p__416889#entry416889

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Well, after ~8000 miles of very hard use, my Modern Motorsport (MMS) axle/Q45 CV setup has given out. Well technically just the MMS axle stops gave out :P. The axles have been banging around in the CVs under hard cornering for quite some time and I knew something would give eventually. I was at Streets of Willow when a terrible vibration/ratcheting began coming from the rear when accelerating out of right hand corners.

 

The "axle stop" (on the left) used to be a flat surface where the circular indentation is worn. This wear allowed the axle/cage/balls to travel outside the CV housing's slots.

297712_10151249693826913_428257383_n.jpg

578457_10151249693561913_302661392_n.jpg

I think I might try welding in a ring in the worn area (where the retaing clip used to be) to limit the balls ability to travel outside the CV housing grooves. Basically creating another type of axle stop.

560540_10151249693621913_1214042084_n.jpg

546453_10151249693751913_836930793_n.jpg

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Oh great, that's NOT good at all! I wondered if this would be an issue but since I saw posts from some folks that appeared to be using plastic as an end stop i figured it must not be a problem - whoops! 8K is not many miles, I wonder if a bearing of some sort could be put in there? Any other way to stop the axle movement? I'm still awaiting my diff to be completed before diving in, I'm now wondering if I shoudl go a different way for axles. <sigh> If i didn't already have brakes it would be easier...

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After pulling the driver side axle to see if it had any damage as well...I realized that the cages had been installed backwards on the damaged axle. I believe this is why the axle stop is so excessively worn. The axle stops on the good axle (correctly installed cages) were in excellent condition. It also effectively shortened the axle enough for the balls to come out of the CV housing and cause the wear and ratcheting. A friend of mine assembled that damaged axle for me but did not have the luxury of the pics in the first post when he did it...oh well live and learn. :)

Edited by Bigdeezs

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Much appreciated Josey...I already put it back together tho..thankyou. How did you end up with 1 anyhow?

 

incorrectly mounted cage left...correctly mounted cage right

184103_10151252388561913_762315881_n.jpg

 

I was going to do the q45 swap.. until i couldn't find anyone to make me those end caps.

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Well I suffered another axle failure this time with cages installed correctly.  The weak link is still the axle stops.  I hadn't had any failures before running coil overs and 275 NT01 tires.  This leads me to believe that the increased cornering forces are causing the wear to increase rapidly as this time I only got 2-3000 miles out of the stops. I also noticed the axle stops on the outside (wheel side,not diff side) are the only ones with significant wear due to the axle being flung at the stop upon transitions (like being at the outside edge of a spinning merry-go-round).  I've always heard the axles banging around when driving spiritedly.  I have welded some old valve springs to the axle stops in hopes of reducing the impact forces as well as to try to keep the axles centered.  I don't have high hopes for this arrangement but I'll give it a shot.

 

247487_10151658986151913_1283543926_n.jp

 

947360_10151658986181913_759518173_n.jpg

 

575519_10151658986051913_1634616563_n.jp

Edited by Bigdeezs

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I think that may cause you to tear your boots up once it fails. The axles stops need to be cut down to the depth you are getting the axle to cause that wear you see. Basically the axle doesn't stay perpendicular to the stop during the suspension travel and causes what you see. I had the same on my setup. I think if you are not running an extreme camber you can get away with cutting down both stops on each axle. I know it is a floating design but if this is done correctly, you would get rid of that banging sound you here during driving and stop metal from mixing with the grease in the boots.

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Clive, that would allow the axle to travel too far...which is the main problem. The stop is what keeps the axle from popping out of the CV housing at the other end of the axle...as it wears (or if I was to cut it down as you say) that axles slowly gets closer to the end of the cv housing eventually popping out and causing a ratcheting sound as the balls skip past their slots.

Like this:

560540_10151249693621913_1214042084_n.jp

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