Daeron

John, I highly value your opinion as a top-notch racer who cuts no corners; therefore, I am very curious as to what you would consider so much better about a "real racing oil cooler" and what difference might exist between, say, the Earl's unit he installed and the 2nd gen RX7 oil cooler of junkyard fame? Is this an airflow thing? I was unaware of any oil cooler disparity, please enlighten me:coollook: Or was that just said that way because he had mentioned the idea of using the trans cooler coil in the aluminum radiator as an "oil cooler?" Regarding the aero ducting and air flow through the radiator.. the key fact to cover is that all the air flowing INTO the front opening flows both... ..through the radiator, and ..out from under the hood. Reducing frontal face area is one method of reducing total air flow into the engine bay, which helps with the stalling, but another key point is that much of the air hits the front opening, and then rolls down below the radiator cross member and thence under the car. The MOST IMPORTANT PART of the radiator air ductwork is the effective transmission of all air entering the "mouth" through the radiator coil. Air can be eliminated from the engine bay by ventilating it behind the wheels, underneath the fenders without even adding actual grills in the sheetmetal fender.. just discharge the air to the space underneath the fender, and it will flow out. Trust me, I know, I seen it on the internet somewhere (No, seriously, I DID see someone here successfully venting this excess air through hidden holes underneath his fenders.. they were essentially under the hydraulics and battery tray. I just can't for the life of me remember who, or even in what thread.)

BLUE, thank you, and what wonderful timing. I was looking at a flat top set of carbs with manifold earlier this afternoon, and should be back at the shop within the next week... I THINK it was an N-33 but it may have been a 36, and theres the nonzero chance i'm mixing the numbers up entirely but it was a flat top manifold.. the carbs were still on it. Anyhow, there was that and others handy; the race car engine is being rebuilt so its nice pretty manifold is off, I should be able to get some good shots. If I make it up there I will review this thread first, get the measurements requested, and get anything beyond what we already have here that I have handy.

Yep. I bet it stays on constant anytime you have your foot on the pedal whatsoever.. on passive cruise it would go back and forth across the stoich threshold, and at idle you are doing the same thing, and neutral cruise still spins the clutch a tiny bit so the engine is being imparted a bit of energy from the slowing car, so it would naturally go lean. Remember, this is just a narrowband O2 sensor.. it is slow reaction time (about a second or more) and it is not very good at what it does; it pretty much tells the computer "RICH" or "LEAN" in a simian manner. They fucntion through a range of 1 volt, and ~.5 volts is stoich, lower is rich, higher is lean. It works about as well as your ear, but it outputs a signal that electronic processors can comprehend. Thats cool to know, I wonder if the earlier model ECUs have this.

Incredible design.. but only a 7500 RPM tach???? It IS beautiful, and incredibly functional.. AND it would free up the three holes on the center of the dash to house three other gauges (boost, oil temp, and A/F?) I just dream dreams of 8200 revolutions per minute, is all....

Firstly, regarding the second point I quoted.. Yes! That is the only reason I have read this thread. Secondly, regarding solid vs hydro lifters... I was born and raised in 240Zs, about half of them running 2.8L, E88 head, and about half running SUs and half running triples. (no con-incidence of displacement and carburetion, just broad experience) The first car I bought myself (a year after getting my Geo for HS graduation) was my 75 280Z, bone-stock. Other than the whirring of the fan (never did get around to dealing with that) it had just the same, perfect engine sound I always loved, despite the EFI. Not identical, but neither were SUs and triples; heck, an exhaust change CHANGES the sound a bit.. so, fast-forward to after my wee fire five years later, I am driving this POS 87 subaru I have now.. the engine has hydraulic lifters. They tend to have a problem with ticking.. ALOT. There are several causes, but these subaru engines get lifter noise so often, and it is so harmless (within a degree) that it is jokingly called TOD (Tick Of Death.) So, I get a baptism by fire on living with noisy hydraulic lifters. Of course, when I have nice, clean oil and it is full and everything is kosher, no TOD and its nice... ...but in the end, I realized that a MAJOR source of the engine sound that I love so much on the Z is, indeed, the sound of the solid valvetrain. I have confirmed this theory through and through. (By listening carefully to the sounds that got louder when I popped the oil cap off) To me, solid valvetrain is like a timing chain.. If it is at ALL "noisier" it is a noise I WANT to hear coming from my engine!! I cannot say whether or not I have heard a hydraulic valvetrain on an L-motor.. but my dad DID own an 83 Turbo, which "should" have had a P90a, and we never DID get that thing to sound as much like a Z as it should have... we attributed that to the turbo and stock exhaust, but I was a neophyte at the time (14? 15 maybe?) so I never would have known; all I know is all these turbo exhaust clips I hear now are NOTHING like what my dad's car sounded like.

Quote of the day, whatever the argument, I just like the way this sounds

I am thinking that the head is probably trash to you, (in that it would take too much effort to use for your purposes) but it could certainly be used as more than a boat anchor.... But, that was my first impression, and I didn't mention it the first time I viewed this thread because I don't really know too much for certain regarding this subject. However, everything I have read that others say seems to support my first impression, in my mind.

The only answer to the question you closed on, tony, is the point you made immediately above it. I've been knocking around ideas of "finding" differing gears to install into these transmissions to tweak out fifth to a higher overdrive, and possibly even find a way to set fourth up just below direct drive as well... just to gain a little cruising speed and lower RPMs a tad. My car currently has the stock 3.54:1 rear end in it, and I wouldn't want to lower the rear end ratio unless I could bring fifth and maybe also fourth back to cruise at the same RPMs I do now... but if I COULD then I would love to see what 3.9s are like! Guys.. don't forget, SOME of us still like NA strokers with 200 lb of torque that comes on at 1500 RPM and keeps rising... this IS an inline six cylinder we are talking about!

have you looked into smaller gauges, that only use 180* of needle travel, to try to retrofit the gauge apparatus behind the stock faces??? I realize it is a complete do-it-yourself nightmare of fabrication.. but it is one potentially viable solution to less than top notch factory gauges that *I* have come up with in my mind.. I would have mentioned it sooner, but it seems you are in a blind alley now (and its a pretty desperate suggestion!)

Alvin Lee and Ten Years After. Although I have to confess I only know one song, I HAVE heard others (GREAT guitarist!) Not bad for a 28 year old, eh?

The Nuge!!! Rarely do I find a character that I enjoy hating so much as he; we happen to have the same birthday (December 13th, Dick van Dyke does too) and about half of what he says I wanna scream at him for, and the other half seems like simple nature. As for his music, again, I find it a great example of a genre I typically find distasteful in general; I love listening to him (stranglehold.. I mean.. stranglehold!!!) but most of the other big-hair, big-chord power guitar groups fall outside my tastes. Tony, has anyone ever told you that they would love to have your problems?

I was going to ask about that possibility; the injector sound I remember IS the sort of noise that could get amplified like that. I cannot say what may cause this injector noise, and I would consider it something worth addressing in the future, but it never effected my car as a dumpy daily driver. Glad to help; I would still HIGHLY recommend confirming the diagnosis yourself before exchanging money. It IS a rather alarming sound and I think it may be OK... but I may be wrong. I cannot hear it firsthand myself.

Thanks, and for the illustration too. Every rendering you post, I consistently fail to recall for at least a moment or two that the image is a solidworks rendering. For a second I actually thought that was a photo of a crankshaft you had found.

THATS the sort of carburetor setup that makes you wanna say SCREW EFI!!!!!! can't wait to see (HEAR) some video!

(I just got my 'net connection back after a week so I am slowly catching up on things here as I get bored with TV; I'm not sure but I think this is less recent than the discussion in your main swap thread but I'm gonna add this here) You MIGHT want to get some blank pieces of paper and draw abstract diagrams of what you need to build into your car ultimately, and what each system has in it now, so that you can look at these three drawings and use them as an aide to keep the ENTIRE "big picture" in front of you while you sketch and make notes regarding the changes needed. I haven't jumped on it yet (my vehicle is a much more slow-paced project than yours, if you haven't noticed) but I'm going to alter the FSM wire diagram that I have and either use it as stock to cut pieces out of signifying my overall plan of design for certain aspects, or possibly edit out all superfluous pieces of the diagram, do som color coding, and then sketch out changes I need to make to the original diagram. I would suggest possibly a hybridization of both of these ideas; Cut out the components (relay, AFM, pump, ecu, etc) from the stock wire diagrams and color code any wires that you may want.. assemble those into one coherent picture, then print that out and take it to your pile of parts and set about making reality conform to your sketch (or altering ideas to fit reality as need be) and then decide how to mount everything in the vehicle. You can compare the ECU/FI relay/ component connections by comparing the two vehicle wire diagrams.. if they look largely the same then I would recommend retaining the one in the vehicle (or at least its method of installation) anywhere possible. and don't hesitate to post up with things that seem almost too nit-picky or simplistic to ask advice on... in a job like this, the more brains tinker with the issues the more possibilities open up. There is no detail to fine to question.

It is working; thats what an amp gauge does.

I've heard my injectors get really loud at times in the past, and it sounds an awful lot like this... but listen for the sound with a piece of tubing or a screwdriver set between your ear and the base of each injector. The only way I would be confident it was injector noise was if I could confirm that through direct observation; if you hear injector noise that does not coincide with that ticking, then it can't be the injectors. Hearing it rev higher would make it easier for me to say it was the injectors.. because in my experience, the noise was far less pronounced at higher RPMs than at idle. The minimal throttle tap in the video wasn't very high.. Valve noise or anything seriously problematic would be more exaggerated at higher RPMs.

I hated the marketing that lexus put into their "chronograph-styled instrumentation" because MY "IS" (the datsun inline six, heh) already had it! and it was an antique econo-sports car, not some overpriced luxury toyota... I can't rag on the lexus too much, though. it DOES look nice in the vehicle its in, and the vehicle itself brooks little criticism in my mind. I am EAGERLY watching this thread for outcome, because I have a feeling you and I are of a like mind when it comes to instrumentation.

I HIGHLY DOUBT anyone here would care to see any of that junk. /sarcasm off/

Before I say anything, this is ALL said in an effort to help you make sure you reach your goal. There is nothing like an all-motor L-powered Z in my book. Norm's motor(s) are unique. I have read posts on zc.c by TonyD professing to have watched Norm match his pistons and balance his cc's thusly.. by grinding them against the sidewalk. Norm is THAT good working with the engine and massaging the power out. That is how you build an NA l-series: you know how. Well, it is how HE builds HIS anyhow, and THAT is the motor you are fixated upon. But enough about Norm; I wish I knew more about the details of his build myself and I do not blame you for envying it (if it lives up to all his hype about it, which I DO believe.. but I wouldn't be horrified to discover that belief in error.) Your first stumble is thus: To which you replied: It doesn't matter what "you consider it," valves, guides, a cam, springs, retainers, lash pads, and rocker arms aren't "massive headwork" they are elementary design bits of the engine. The "massive headwork" is contained in the shaping of the intake tract, from the marriage with the manifold through the port, past the valve guide, past the valve face, into the combustion chamber, around the shape of that combustion chamber (head side and piston side) and out past the exhaust valve face, guide, port, and into the header. For re-iteration: the "head work" necessary to see performance out of your L-gata is in the shape of the aluminum air tract and in the shape of the combustion chamber, both head side and piston side. With the 24s it potentially includes eyebrowing the block, but a 28 (especially with 40 over bore) thats not an issue. More than just a port and polish. Thats the good news; its a wild ride. Now, regarding the piston face.. WHEN using the "high quench" heads then the IDEAL combustion chamber would mirror the relief of the head in the relief of the piston.. in other words, a flat top is NOT the best for the P90 shape chamber; it is the standard but a flat top with the proper relief cut in it to mirror the head is the BEST. There is a whole WHOLE lot more to be said on the subject, but I don't think its precisely relevant here and its been said elsewhere better than I could possibly re-state it here... but I believe that was what sticky280zx meant by a piston "dish" with the p-90, and i don;t think goldfish quite caught that. In the end, the brains of your longblock may lie in your camshaft and valvetrain assembly, but its heart and soul lies in the shape of that intake tract and combustion chamber. (and the entire war that wages with the N-42/open chamber versus P-90 "high quench roolz you!!11!" should convince you of this fact) THAT is the head work that you need to do to reach your 250 pre-nitrous horsepower goal, and to do it on street gas to wind up with a streetable engine. I would say (I like to think its possible anyhow) that in the end the open chamber/quench choice is irrelevant in the long run; that is, done properly either one will do well, but the key is knowing HOW to do it. If you haven't already, start saving photos of EVERY cylinder head you see and take notes on what changes had been made to it. Buy the "how to modify datsun OHC engine" book and the others and read them cover to cover. Or just send a blank cylinder head out to braap and let him know what you want to do, and let HIM do the port and combustion chamber work.

One question I have had in mind throughout my reading this thread is, what kind of tolerance is there in between those connecting rods and the journals? I can understand that the rod stays in its place to a degree because it is held by the piston and wrist pin, but how much clearance is there between those pieces and how possible/frequently would one see "walking" and serious engine damage in this area? And, above and beyond that, a more elemental question of "nitty-gritty" engine inexperience.. how much MORE of a problem would this be with this single-plane V8 design than with a simple inline four cylinder?

Thanks for clearing that up for me Because by increasing the displacement, you wind up with a square increase in size of metal pieces doing work (resisting work in this case) and a cubic increase in amount of work to be resisted. It goes back to why the home-brew single plane SBC would be running a displacement of around 3.5 liters.. keep size down, you keep rotational mass down, and there are less forces being thrown in every which way but centered. no one is getting into an argument or a dispute, you just made a bit of a bold comment that deserved a few dissenting opinions at the very least For every person who puts the V-twin at #1 on their list is another man who rates it dead LAST, and I cannot offhand think of another engine grouping that has as many vocal opponents than the Harley, either. I suppose there are people who loathe the rotary engine, but thats an alien concept to me.. but the pointed needed to be.. ..counterweighed...

You've let an absurdly large amount of data seep into your brain regarding this issue in recent weeks. It is simple data, but there has been a FLOOD of it. Simple or not, it takes a bit for your brain to really digest it all well enough to come back and actually work with it all as functioning knowledge and not abstract knowledge. Simple it is, yet hair-splittingly specific and detailed. Take a break, take a few days off and help the wifey, ignore the car for a little bit, and come back. Its a very very common thing in my experience, and all the perseverance in the world can be to no avail if you don't take that all-important step back before you persevere. Alternately, I will talk to my old man and see if we can put together a carb setup (only half serious, don't hang any plans on this tongue-in-cheek post unless I say otherwise later)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47869 $14.99, harbor freight FTW!!!

I would have said that a Ferrari V8 or V12, or possibly a Porsche would have had that exhaust note title.... To me, the Harley claim sounds pedantically American. NOT to sound insulting, though!!! Personally my thoughts about Porsches have been well aired elsewhere in the past, and I vowed to stop talking about my opinion to avoid making anyone less than happy.. and as much as I love a Ferrari blasting down the straight, or gear-braking before a hairpin...... my L-gata is HEAVEN to my ears. But I am trying to understand something here.. when you say "single-pin crank" you cannot actually mean one single contiguous pin along the length of the crankshaft, right?? You mean, for ease of description, a "half single plane" crank, where instead of the minus sign that the single plane implies, or the plus sign that a dual plane crank describes, that all four crank pin throws describe the same line, correct? The pins themselves would HAVE to have journals and be separated, unless you only had two main bearings?? I don't know what the internals of a harley engine look like, but I somehow doubt it would help me understand what youre talking about any better. I THINK I can visualize what you mean, I am just making sure I have the right track... and it certainly WOULD be a very interesting sound.. once you got to high enough RPM it would be insane..