Tony D

When considering JeffP's car, cut your boost in half, and you get the last dyno pulls we did. 10-11psi, 400+ at 7000rpms... This Friday, final numbers (Z31 ECU and Alternator Diodes Permitting) we will FINALLY finish the ECU mapping vand have full boost figures. But yeah, on 80 to 110mph pulls, the car was showing over 400hp at 7000rpms. 8.5:1 CR, and the N/A portions of the map were showing well over 300 ft-lbs of torque. It's a very nice build from what I've witnessed thusfar. BTW, even though full on boost threshold is around 3400rpms, no matter where you are in the rpm range below that, you immediately get 3psi when you flog it---makes for that nice torque bump below boost threshold, and augments the 3.0L, as well as 8.5:1 CR performance of an N/A engine. And if you are lugging or cruising below 3300rpm, when 3400 comes, hold on tight! Of course Jeff says "It still feels a bit sluggish" below 15psi of boost... Degrees, it's all a matter of degrees!

Define "High RPM" power peak at 7 to 7.5K? or higher? If so, JeffP's current build is looking pretty good. Get rid of the stroker and run super boosted L28, and make power to 8200 or thereabouts, just like an N/A. Just sie everything accordingly, and make your boost threshold before cam peak power area, and it will react like avery big N/A motor...

I will lay money someone parting a Fairlady for a "Clip" will want more for it than you can buy the whole car for. I haven't had to pay more than $1500 for a FairladyZ, and they routinely show up on e-bay in that range as well. If that's too expensive for you, then getting a clip and putting in all that labor and buying a welder to install it will end up more than the whole car would cost. To no advantage: the car will not be worth as much as a real Fairlady. Conversions rarely if ever are....

The upper and lower T-Stat housings; the portion that covers the thermostat is the 'upper' and has the connection for the upper Radiator Hose. The lower T-Stat housing holds the thermostat in a small recess, bolts to the head, holds all your sensors and has all the connections for bypass hoses and auxillary heating coming from it. So yes, we are talking about the lower portion of the T-Stat Housing. The other connection is where your lower radiator hose connects to the front cover---the water inlet fitting if you will. It contains a connector for the lower radiator hose, the return from the heater core (15mm), and the bypass circuit return (8 or 10mm depending I think). -6 is more than enough flow to supply the turbo with water, restrict it to no more than 5 to 8 mm at the WATER INLET END so you have pressure built up in the circuit to prevent flash boiling, same as in the head. So to run the circuit, run your -6 hose from the lower t-stat housing (or the lower fitting on the block under cylinder #5 & 6 if you have it), to the turbo, from the turbo to the water inlet fitting on the front cover of the engine---run it in the bypass hose fitting----sometimes it is an integral diecast piece, other times this fitting is a steel tube welded cojoined with the heater return fitting. I HAVE seen some people without a heater use the heater connections on the back of the head and at the water inlet---but I think it's too hot there---the water at the lower thermostat housing is actually cooler. And ideally if you have a block with the tap on the lower portion of the block, you will get FAR cooler water from there to supply your turbo. Restricting the flow at the inlet will insure you only get the flow you need to cool the turbo, and not a freeflow closed circuit. If you are not running a core in the car, you may simply block those openings---do not connect the head to the inlet---that through a 15mm hose will definately cause overheating issues when it gets hot (does it get hot in Norway?). If you don't have the 15mm line from the heater, connecting your turbo line to the inlet there is probably the esaiest.

I wish I could all give you guys a set of Atlas Copco ZR3 Bullgear and Pinion Gear setups! They work great as a geared way to crank those rotisseries around. The Bullgear has a bolt circle on it that adapts to the back of the engine stand head nicely, and you then just tack a place to put the pinion gear and weld your crank handle to it. Anybody else have an electric rotator ideas? I was thinking of sacrificing a Harbor Freight 800# overhead winch to see if there is an applicable wormgear drive inside that would be adaptable. Being able to hit a button on a pendant to move something while you're settled in and welding to get a better angle would be so much more convienient than having to go crank the thing by hand---I don't want much, do I? LOL

Drove through on the way back to Menominee/Marinette, ultimately ending in Tawas MI for the evening, and then on to Buffalo NY the following day. Stopped at "The Shrine" to pay hommage on Lombardi Avenue as is my custome when in the area. Made it a point to eat at Mickey-Lu's in Marinette, and pick up 30# of Cheese from Joes Cheese House in Marinette as well! "A Ways From" is a relative term for me. I was in Sault St. Marie two days before, and Timmins Ontario Canada the day before that! And came "home" with my booty from the Northern Trip to SoCal last Thursday---just in time for the Z-Club Meeting!

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=120771 Towards the end, turbo cooling is addressed. Sourcing is on positive pressure side (lower block tap is discussed in my other thread), and return is on lower radiator hose side.

Ohhhhh! I couldn't disagree more! You want to take that coolant from the LOWER thermostat housing so it has motive force provided by the water pump. From there the most common routing is to the turbo and then back to the inlet of the engine using the turbo coolant line as the ersatz bypass hose. Even with a 10mm hose there, the recirculation will not hurt cooling, and will actually help the engine warm up faster than using the standard bypass hose configuration which is 8mm I believe. If you take it from the lower radiator hose, and return it to the upper T-Stat housing there is no motive force, nor any pressure differential to work from and the flow will be stagnant. The ONLY flow through the line would be as coolant in the leg is heated and is moved upwards towards the upper housing (thermal siphon)---that scenario is not a functional coolant circuit. If you have a secondary pump to move it, fine, but it won't work the way it was described. You can also (if your block has the provision for it) plumb off the lower side of the block, below the #5/6 cylinder area. This gives you much cooler water from the bottom of the coolant passages, and under pressure from the water pump---but you will still want to return it to the pump inlet. This lower hole is not in all blocks, but it makes some of the plumbing easier as you aren't putting hoses on top of the manifold. You can also use the original bypass lines to do the cooling, the circuit that formerly heated the Cold Start Aux Air Valve, throttle body, etc is the fitting on the thermostat you want to use---if you don't have those other components, then you were simply adding the bypass line anyway, just loop the old taps to the turbo and back to the inlet on the bypass hose line that comes in the top of the water inlet in conjunction with the heater hose from the cold side of the heater core. Take a look at the hose routing on the 87-89 VG30ET (those that came with the water-cooled turbo) for a good example of how the OEM routed the turbo coolant lines.

Turbo, or non-turbo? Turbo: Doesn't matter, the IC tubing is only 2 or 2.25" in diameter, it fits. N/A: Doesn't matter, the Cold Air Tubing is only 2.5" in diameter 60mm SXTB: Doesn't Matter, the outer diameter of the body is still only 2.5" in diameter! As for best boot, I used a silicone turbo hose from Turbo City. But the stock hose will work there as well if you stretch it---just use a new one! The old ones get hard and can crack/break! Samco Sport also has STEPPED silicone hoses that are one ID on one end, and another ID on the other, that is also a pricier option. The 2.5" Silicone hose I got from Turbo City fit my SX TB fine, and I used a 2.5" to 2" muffler adapter to neck it down to the 2" I/C tubing I was running. On the Fairlady, I used the 2.5" cold air kit from a "Honda Generic Kit" from APC at Pep Boys and it fit just fine, hump hose and all. Keep in mind, the Honda stuff is really price-competitive, and it WORKS---they don't care what engine is breathing through it! I've found all sorts of nick-nacks that are helpful in fabbing up this kind of stuff.

My bet is that most people are going for cosmetics over function. Again, think about Nissan being able to save 30 yen worth of aluminum (not to mention tooling costs) on EVERY manifold produced. The later vehicles came with hood vents, yet they still retained the webbing between the manifolds. Just think about the Ford Pinto. Originally engineers dictated the carrige bolts for the gas tank straps be installed from the bottom UP through the straps. During a production review, they realized that if the carrige bolts for the gas tank were dropped in the square holes in the chassis before the tank was hoisted, a simple nutrunner operation was all that was needed to move the car down the line. 30 seconds total installation time for two nuts, compared to almost 90 seconds having to hold the strap with one hand and set the carrige bolt in a sprung holder on the strap... Just that when impacted, instead of the sharp unprotected ends of the bolts folding OUT towards the bumper, they went UP AND IN to the gas tank, puncturing it! If Automakers can leave something off a vehicle, they WILL. The webbing is there for a reason---long term heat reduction on the FI components being a major one. With or without hood vents, they had that webbing. 200K+ mile durability... Just a thought to consider before you start re-engineering an already good system. As for 'clean install' I took a Non-EGR P82 and used it, instead. I think it's cleaner than the N42, and gives you much more space to get to the turbo when doing anything in that area.

If you are intercooling a turbo car, then the tubing is FAR smaller than the OEM N/A ducting that goes through that hole. Turbo guys normally run a cone filter on the turbo directly, or fenagle the AFM to a place where the filter is out side the radiator. Matter of fact, you are being taken in by an optical illusion! I know for a fact the stock Turbo AFM will take a full diameter tube through the opening you are talking about in the radiator core support of a 73... So the N/A boot using a 'cold air tube' will fit through there easily as well. Just like posted above: unmodified.

Considering option #2, consider the responsiveness of the engine below 3500 rpm before the cam starts working. Why doesn't anybody complain abbout 'camshaft lag' in this case, yet 'boost threshold' is some sort of terrrible bugaboo... You hit it on the head indirectly: because the power is so non-linear. When you hit boost threshold (and on a T3 it will more likely be 2500...) the power is so much more than an N/A's linear delivery. The conclusion: the engine is being driven wrong. If you keep a turbo on the boil, same as a cammed engine in an N/A you end up with none of the 'non-responsiveness' that uninitiated drivers feel when driving a turbo in a lazy manner, below boost threshold two gears too high for the speed being driven. The thing is on a turbo car it's easy to drive that way because of the torque available whereas the N/A will be a miserable, boggy dog till you get up on the cam. Camming and flowing a Turbo car will result in power that pulls easily into the 7000+ rpm range on an L-Engine. It's just most take the lazy way out and boost a stock engine---and as a result end up with something that barely revs above 5500-6000 due to camshaft limitations. Use the right cam in the turbo application, and your turbo masks the cam's inefficiencies below 3500 by adding massive torque compared to an N/A of even 10:1 cr, and when you come on the cam at 3500 the feeling is linear progression just like an N/A setup. Problem is, most people over turbo their applications so that boost threshold is above camshaft torque peak---so you have 'mismatched components' that compound a poor situation. Get it set up correctly so the turbo is boosting before you reach a camshaft peak and simply bypass excess exhaust gas at the top end for the pull to 7K+. Vote for Turbo, here, obviously. But if the 5M is cheaper, and you already have it....logic dictates that is the way to go. Who cares what provides the motive power, just so long as it goes? It's a flattish Valvecover, grind it off and put some stick-on Nissan decals on it and get people thinking...

The webbing acts as a heat dam to prevent heat from rising to the upper portion of the engine bay where the fuel components lie. The early ones didn't have it, every later one did....ever think why? I mean, would Nissan pay all that money to add aluminum to a manifold that didn't need it? Before rethinking things for cosmetics sake, think about the practical rammifications of the modification and why it was put there in the first place. If you want the exhaust manifold heat out, why not supply a proper duct to exhaust it out, using the webbing as it stands?

You can do it in-place. Disconnect the wastegate rod from the actuator arm, and see if you can get the arm on the turbine hot-side to move. Sometimes soaking in Kroil or PB BLaster works to free it up, otherwise further disassembly is required. It wouldn't be the first time a linnkage rod was bound up as well. Removing the actuator completely is a simple matter with two 13mm bolts and a needle nosed pliers for the clip on the hot side. That little rusty arm should flop around pretty freely once disconnected. If it does, the possibility of the flapper being broken off comes to mind, and as stated above, 'further disassembly maybe required at that point---if the popoff valve on the manifold is not leaking boost off. So there are a few things you cna check before having to remove the turbo for inspection. Worth the time to check first, doesn't hurt at least...

"I've never messed with carbs your right on that account but I have plenty of friends that do." That was the whole gist of the post. Please don't make such statements and mislead people when it is clear from the statement the access is limited. The 'you don't know me' argument is moot. We are trying to foster an environment of cogent discussion of the topic, and not perpetuate myths. Your post was just a tad on the 'heresay' side of the situation. I.E. not from firsthand experience, nor close firsthand observation. Try to limit that kind of commentary, as it's anecdotal, and not relevant. I'm not moderating you, but if you think this board will let statements of limited technical veracity slide, you've a lot to learn. My statement was simply that I wouldn't consider 21+ psi as 'limited'... If you want to talk about something with water or methanol injection, then the number is QUITE a bit higher. I was talking about cars set up with a Holley Draw-Through, bolted to a turbo, blowing into the intake of the head. No water injection nor methanol injection supplementing it. Hell, my 73 was running 17psi daily in SoCal for years without supplemental anti-detonant (which as you stated can be considered a poor-man's form of intercooling)....but then again so can excess gasoline. In which case ALL forms of draw-through are inherently intercooled... And the statement would be then more true that blow-throughs are limited in boost unless they are intercooled.

What I did on my 73 was use an Electrically Controlled Hayden Fan Controller. I waited for a HOT day (109F), and then got the car out on the highway---obviously the fan should NOT be running at that point on level ground and cruising. I noted where the thermostat was keeping the car (160 degree Chevy T-Stat). I then took the car off a frontage road, and put the car in fifth gear, and sloooowly let the car slow down till I saw the temp rise...then sped up slightly. This happened to be right around the lug-point on my car---around 35 MPH in fifth. I set my fans to kick on about 10 degrees above that 'low lug point'---it ended up being around 180 (even though it was a 160 t-stat!). Apparently that is the slowest I can drive and not have the car continually spiral up in temperature. So the fan kicks on at 180-185, and will shut off at around 170-175. I can watch this in traffic, and going down the road. Running on the freeway, the engine stays much closer to 160-165, when I pull down onto surface streets, the car will run 165-175, until I hit a stoplight. I can watch the temperature rise, and then the fan kicks in. As the fan does it's business, I can watch the needle on the gauge go back down to the cutout point, and can hear the fan shut off. It really gives me piece of mind that it operates in two distinct ranges. If it's climbing on the road I suppose eventually the fan may come on, but it hasn't done so thusfar. And in the stop and go of downtown L.A. the on-off keeps me from overheating. To my choice of thermostat: I figured the cooler everything was under the hood, the better. I tried this same setup with a 190 t-stat, and the car would surge and buck from vapor lock or whatever. But with the 160 in there, everything is so much cooler to the touch (intake manifold, fuel lines, etc) and I don't get any of the surging I got when running the hotter setups. Basically, as long as I'm moving forward in clean air, I have never heard the fans come on, and the car stays cool within reason. But slow way down and stop, and the fan will cycle, just like an OEM setup. Carbbed Car, btw. hope that helps you with the setup. It has worked well for me since about 91 when I changed to the twin Hayden 10" fans, from the old 16" Japanese Refrigeration Condenser Fan I formerly had on there!

Yeah, buy a Fairlady, they are out there and cheap enough. The pedals on a 'converted' RHD setup bend the wrong way (towards the tunnel on the LHD, but when on the RH side, they point toward the door, and just don't line up correctly...) All the bracketry regarding electricals is identical between Fairlady and comparable model LHD---the harness is longer for the insturmentation, but nothing big there to swap... I'd still buy a Fairlady, it's going to be cheaper, and be right. They are lighter anyway, so Fairlady Z's make better starter vehicles for project racers anyway. Matter of fact, if you are willing to travel, there are probably several Fairlady Z's in CA within a 6 hour drive. The ZX is a much more involved conversion than the S30. For a ZX, I'd get a Fairlady DEFINATELY. For an S30, the parts are fairly easy to do the swap, but on a ZX, run away! Run Away! Fairlady Purchase is THE way to go in that case!

I have to agree with lbhsbz, look at it as a kit! My first Harbor Freight Tool finally took a dump last year...never oiled it, ran it with dirty air, ran water through it, finally gave up the ghost in 2006. I bought it for $9.99 in 1986. 3/8" Butterfly Impact Wrench. My Dad was buying their stuff when they were selling the tools separate from the motors (some import restriction, methinks) when they were having parts and machines made in TAIWAN. His stuff is of VERY good quality, and was all bought in the early 1980's. I'll probably get it when he passes away, gawd knows my bro isn't mechanically inclined... Anyway, back to the "kit" comment. I noticed when they started getting stuff sourced from Mainland China, the quality started going south in external finish, etc... I now disassemble everything when I get it home, and repack the bearings, etc. In some cases, I will replace the bearings with good SKF or NTN stuff I get from King Bearing. There WAS a time when the die grinders came with the SAME internals as a Snap-On Die Grinder (NTN bearings included!). I also second the 'get a good chuck'---I knocked their chuck out and use the German Albrecht Keyless Chuck with my MT-2 Adapter on it. I can always stick the collet adapter on it when I need to use it in the Bridgeport. For the money, if you take a few little preventative steps before you put it into service, or very shortly thereafter, you will be rewarded with something that will last a LONG time. True, there was a time when you didn't HAVE to do this with their stuff, but they went from Taiwan to Mainland, and it shows. I do work there (China) and that convinced me to not trust anything out of there just yet. Taiwan I trust a LOT more than mainland China at this point. Now my Bridgeport: $1250 for a J-Model with complete tooling and a shaper attachment was NEW in 1975, and has been in a welding shop gathering dust and cutting slots in aluminum since he bought it from the original owner in 1980. For the price, nothing I could buy at HF could compare. My kid will get this when I die. It will still be tight and working great. If you can find old 3 phase American stuff and buy a conversion motor for single phase, it's the greatest deal on the face of the planet. I bought a 6" hydraulic horizontal band saw for $25 (scrap value) and spent $200 on the Frame 56 single phase motor for it's conversion and absolutely LOVE it! Big, heavy, and made in Kalamazoo Michigan. Now, that Buffalo Drill Press.... Buying things intended for an overhead belt system may be more than most want to tackle. I figure it will look good painted up and just sitting there with the 1 3/4" drill chucked up in it! LOL

Not that I disagree that a carburetteed turbo is a poor idea, but exactly how can you quantify that statement of "boost is limited"---what constitutes limited? 21 psi? Because I've seen plenty of Holley Drawthrough non-intercooled turbo setups on L-Engines run those kind of numbers (and run loooow 11's in a full bodied S130 in fact...) So saying you are 'limited by lack of intercooling' is probably a bit of internet parrroting than speakingfrom firsthand experience, at least that's my guess. I just want the record straight that at least in my mind, 21+psi of boost is not 'limited' by any stretch of the imagination! EFI, that's the way to go for drivability.

What I suggest people do is search out the research done by piston manufacturers and the OEM's regarding TBC Coatings. Of particular interest, if you can find the stuff, is extensive experimentation and documentation of the results done by Keith Black Racing Piston's Chief Engineer John Erb. He has published several papers on the subject, some of them pamphlets for the KB Piston Customers, some through other sources. You may find him quoted on this subject, as well. This is regarding combustion chamber coatings, but he goes into pistons and piston crowns as well. I spend time at this shop, that is where I got some contact with Erb and his propaganda on their behalf--- http://www.techlinecoatings.com Their Tech Articles Section is worth reading. These coatings are what we use in our Screw Compressor Overhaul Program, though the engineer in charge of that program formerly used them in his Top Fuel Blower Rebuild Business on the East Coast, as well as being a distributor for Swaintech (they are in NY).

"but it did bring to light that the ceramic coating he used didn't hold up to the cylinder heat." No, that is not what it showed at all! And that is my point entirely. Poor Conclusion drawn from poor anecdotal evidence and miserably researched. Like I said, an HKS Metal Head Gasket Blows Out under Detonation, and Conclusion: They're junk, they don't hold up. Same type of statement being made about coatings from Austins post. Bad Decisions made from Bad, Incomplete, Anecdotal "Research".

TO solve this once and for all, run a wire from your fuel pump relay, and install the three-wire heated O2 sensor from a VG30 (Z31). The car will be able to go into closed-loop mode after about 30 seconds, and will STAY in closed loop mode MUCH LONGER. The problem is the good flow will let the single wire O2 sensor cool off. This is how I have my MS wired, and this is how I've wired many other ZXT conversions using the stock electrics. I realized long ago that a heated sensor makes for MUCH better fuel mileage in them and never realized why. Someone did some scoping and testing, and found that once the ZXT ECU goes into closed-loop mode, it will stay there at idle and low speeds until the single wire unit stops switching. This usually happens when it cools off. If you run the heated sensor from the 86 Z31T (I think that's the model I specified at Pep Boys) the sensor stays heated, and on closed loop much longer. It screws right in, no problem (same turboon the Z31, slightly different downpipe, but the O2 sensor screws right in to the standard O2 sensor bung like the OEM unit. I will also work the same as your single wire without the heater hooked up, but I'd not run it like that) I know my MS gets a switching signal and I can read voltages at cold idle (er... .9vdc on cold start enrichment...heh!) almost from the time I start it up. Pretty simple test, and only one connectro to swap from the Z31 to plug it right in, as well as a few feet of wire for the heater power and ground leg. Works Great. Godd Luck!

I think that's an wholly innaccurate assessment of the situation, and of Austin's commentary. For Austin's experience, I can show you documented situations from my own experience that totally dispell his experience. The terrible situation here is people are using anecdotal non-scientific assessments of uncontrolled and haphazard situations and making decisions based upon them. Bad juju? Bad Science. Detonation puts off ALL situational assessments. And Austin's engine clearly detonated, as shown in his photos. If a metal head gasket blows when you detonate, do you then condemn all metal headgaskets as 'The best you will get from them' based on that one experience of abnormal conditions? Put some effort into research, and the plusses are there. For 20psi, do you need it? Who knows...what kind of HP is that 20 psi going to make? I can tell you one thing: Swaintech will be one vendor I contact for coatings on my Bonneville Engine Build. There will be others as well. They work. But to say one anecdotal story out of a sea of controlled studies and racing series where coatings are used...making a decision or drawing a conclusion from that is the Bad JuJu---Bad Science indeed!~

Jeff is making well over 100+ more HP at a given rpm point than his previous build. 415 to the wheels at 5500rpm and 23psi boost, versus 585 at an aborted 6300rpm run (power peaks at over 7000 on this build) at less than 20 psi. With a full run, the number was well over 100HP more at 15psi (somewhere around 465hp @7250 with 15psi or something like that). The turbo would not flow any more at that point, he couldn't get 28psi from it. At that point he was still thinking he 'needed' 30 psi to make his desired power. (And remember, this was a car with about a 2500rpm boost threshold, hammer it at any speed above 2500rpm, and the boost was INSTANEOUS to 23psi.) The power point has changed as well, it's not just the turbo. The previous turbo was outflowed... incidentally he had 23psi exhaust backpressure pre-turbine when there was 23psi in the intake plenum with the previous turbo. That is a pretty free-flowing environment as it is. What was changed was the camshaft primarily, along with flow increases on the exhaust ports...then the new turbo was sized based on projected horsepower expected. The build has exceeded expectations. And there is still over 30cfm per intake port restriction that is EASILY removed, making for the possibility of much more power potential. But that, as it is, will probably never be seen on the street. Not one that is paved with black stuff...

Well, that all depends on what kind of tire height you have, doesn't it? Start looking at some of the taller tires that will fit on a Z, and it becomes VERY easy to turn a 3.9 into a 3.54 gearset using a taller tire setup. Same goes for having a 3.36 in a car with wide, super-low-profile tires, in reality the effective gear ratio is more near 3.9 in some cases. I know my 3.9 in the Fairlady was far enough out of ratio with some 215's on the back that a Motorcycle cop pulled me out of the carpool lane to have a talk with me, and I only thought I was going 120kph... In fact, it was quite a bit more... Gear recomendations without asking about tire height is grasping at straws. If you use stock-height tires, then maybe yes. But generally people here are running something of a performance tire/wheel combination, and that can have a GREAT effect on the gearing. Personally, I really like the 3.7 gearset in the turbo cars running stock tire height. 3.54 always seemed sluggish out of the hole through first to me.