JMortensen

How about this then: Occams razor cannot determine who shot JFK.

Occam's Razor is built on probability. It's not right every time.

Here I was thinking I was done.... If you look at some of the links that I listed and that last one that DAW put up, you'll see that there is an almost universal combustion chamber shape for 2 valve heads. Looks like a heart shape, my 510 buddies always called them the "peanut" chambers. I have seen some heads from the worst of the smog years like the later E88 and the N42/47 that didn't use that shape, but engines made at that time were also some of the lowest output engines in recent history. That's the truth, regardless of what head you used to build your race engine. What's also true is that you can make as much power with the open chamber shape. You can machine your pistons for quench, and they'll end up making that peanut shape in the top of the piston instead of the head. But for those not machining pistons you'll be better off starting with the best chamber shape. My point is and has been that this peanut shape is damn near UNIVERSAL. So when Tim and Dan say that I have no proof because it hasn't been tried on an L series, or the P head in particular, to me that is just like saying (as I mentioned in a previous post) that I hadn't tried upping the compression in my engine, but I did and voila!!! More power!!! You don't need to prove that upping compression is going to increase the power, and likewise quench has been similarly proven. Dan's argument was that you can't quantify the quench, and I think that this is probably an untrue statement, but I don't have any proof that you can, at least not that Dan would accept. This thread has degenerated really badly (first time I've been called a liar), posts here are mostly better than this one unless you're in the Non-Tech Board arguing politics. Do your own research. Don't listen to me, or DAW, and definitely don't listen to Dan or Tim...

The intent of the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform law was to prevent soft money having such a huge influence on presidential election. Intent may give you warm fuzzies, but it doesn't fix the problem. If there is a loophole, someone is going to exploit it. Wouldn't be the first time G-Men wearing dresses abused their power...

I've seen it too, and if yours passes inspection that might be all that matters to you. Maybe I'm just more nervous about gas than I need to be, but the original idea of a 20 oz CO2 canister underneath is a better one IMHO. It's that whole burn unit thing... :flamedevil: My wife was working in the childrens' burn ward at a hospital here in Seattle up until a couple weeks ago so I've been a little more aware as of late.

It's a good thing you're above all that, isn't it?

That surge tank idea scares me Pete. How much gas you got in there, 1/2 gallon? Fire suit or not I wouldn't want to have that much gas in the cabin with me in an accident situation. It's unnecessarily large and should be under the deck IMO.

All right then. I need to put down the crack pipe when I'm reading. I guess I totally misread that post. I thought he was saying that he had an n42 with the Euro pistons that pinged like crazy, and changed to a P90 shaved and made 9 hp. Maybe I had a glass of wine before I read that. I don't know. You are correct Dan. That apparently is not what he said. Doesn't matter if it's a P head or not. The idea is to get the quench. It could be an early E head, a P head or the Max N head. All are going to have the same innate advantage that the Z N heads do not. I agree, but engine developers don't start from scratch every time. A good engineer should be able to see the merits of a good design and use it to their benefit (remind me never to hire you). You and Tim seem to be the only ones stating that this MIGHT not work. And the abundance of evidence (no quotes this time) from V8s, V6s, I4s, V twins, single cylinders, 2 strokes, 4 strokes, etc, etc, etc is overwhelming. I KNOW that I can't make you open your mind. I'm sorry about that, and I'm done arguing. I just made this post to tell you that you were right and I was wrong on the other guy's story.

The chamfers also prevent the edges of the holes from being left sharp. Sharp holes apparently act like a cheese grater on the pads. Not a big deal, the guy who turns them has to go REALLY slow otherwise the cutting bit will get stuck in the holes, then after they've been cut you need to chamfer again, which you can do in about 10 minutes with a chamber bit and a drill. I've only seen cross drilled rotors turned once. It wasn't that big a deal once the guy doing it figured out he had to take of just a few thou at a time (which you're supposed to do anyway but no one does). Personally I don't turn anything anymore. Just throw them away and get new rotors would be my advice. And definitely change the pads. Sounds like those pads are causing the problem.

Early L28's have dished pistons, as do later turbo engines. Later ZX L28's that were normally aspirated had the P79 head and had flat top pistons. There was just a long argument about what the best flat top piston combo was for relatively high compression (~10:1) so look at the Newbie seeking advice post in the 6 cylinder section and you'll see arguments for the N42 and N47 head and the P79 and P90 heads. Read that and you'll have a pretty good idea of what's up.

Tim asked for proof. I thought the fact that his N42 did ping and his P90 didn't at ~ the same compression was a good point, that's why I shared it. That to me is a valid comparison, and probably the best we're going to get. I TOTALLY MISSED that. My bad. I think you're the odd man out there. I know your East Coast gas is 93, where CA gas is 91 and oxygenated in the summer time but that's about the only rationalization that I have for your lack of ping. Not sure on this. We already figured out that you can come close to the stock N chamber volume. The P79 and P90 have the same chamber, and the P79 cc'd out at 46cc with a .080 shave. If you shave the crap out of the N, then yeah, I suppose you're right. I don't know if there is a practical limit to the amount you can shave the P. Of course Mack's Max N47 would be the obvious answer to that problem anyway. It seems that you and Tim are never going to listen to reason or accept the "evidence" of car, truck, boat, chainsaw, motorcycle, ATV, and race engine manufacturers, so I'm officially giving up trying to convince you, but hope that OTHERS reading this realize that it is possible to make good power on an NA L series with an N head and flat tops, but it will be easier and more ping resistant with a P head.

Regardless of the Pearl Harbor attack it's pretty hard to deny that we were moving towards war with Japan before Dec 7. As tannji points out we had an embargo on oil trade with them. Oil that they NEEDED for their war machine. Similarly it is widely accepted that the Versailles Treaty was harsh enough that it virtually guaranteed WWII. No one seems to dispute that one, I don't understand why we're all getting our panties in a bunch over the reasons for war with Japan. It's not like we were just minding our own business and they suddenly attacked us.

Sorry for the formatting issues. Copied and pasted from IZCC email from a couple days ago. The name is withheld to protect the innocent... It would appear that this guy had the same basic builds we're talking about, N42/N42 and F54/P90 shaved. Looks like the P90 was good for about 9hp. Now there is the issue that these were not the same engine with a different head on the same dyno on the same day, but two totally different engines presumably on different days and who knows if it was the same dyno. Even so, his pinging experience backs up the P head theory. Call that "not evidence" if you want. Call all of the articles listed and the hundreds more "not evidence". I'm going with common sense. This part is my favorite: EDIT--Forgot to respond to this: The answer is you don't need quench when you've got 8.5:1. That motor ran fine at the track in 100+ heat running 87 octane. That post was more railing against Dan's BOW DOWN thing than anything else.

Maybe I spoke too soon. Check out the semi-dished piston: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/howto/47075/

I guarantee you lost Kevin right here...

All true, but with a turbo you just retard the timing and turn the boost up to get your power. The timing and the high compression ratio isn't nearly as critical.

Still OT but I was really referring to the ones inside the front door when you walk in. I think these people (usually old or handicapped) can still do jobs that ACTUALLY PROVIDE VALUE to the businesses. It just ticks me off that they sit there usually half blocking the aisle to tell you hello when you walk in. You don't think you're paying for them when you go to the store that hires them? I think the cost of their employment is paid for by my expensive drill bits. Maybe I'm wrong. Sure, but that doesn't mean we need to have millions of govt employees on "standby". The govt can subcontract outside businesses too. I know, I worked on a contract that put fiber optic cable into a naval building. Of course about six months after we got the job done they shut the building and the project down. This is a very valid point and certainly is a situation that needs to be addressed, but a very poor way to justify the Patriot Act. You want to stop illegal immigration, fine. Expand the border patrol, put the national guard on the border, whatever. Take care of the problem, don't try to make it better by surveilling everyone in the country.

From the chevyhiperformance.com link on page 2: EDIT--with respect to JohnB's "prouder" thing when I bought new valves for my head on the last rebuild I went from valves that were cut too far to valves that were brand new and much prouder, and lost 2cc in chamber volume!!! Also the original Nissan valves had quite a bit more dish in the end of the valve than my new ones did. Point is that can really affect compression ratio.

Ummm.... that wasn't the intent.

I know someone's going to say that this is not analogous, but I think it is: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&ncid=716&e=12&u=/nm/20040914/pl_nm/russia_usa_dc

EXACTLY. So they want a whole lot more of your money, then they want to use it to "create 10,000,000 jobs" which will probably mean 10,000,000 wheelchair bound greeters at the f'in Post Office (seriously what is with the damn handicapped greeters at the hardware store and the office supply store???) How about they start stripping the gov't of departments that are not essential and FIRING all these unnecessary govt workers. That wouldn't make anyone happy in the short run, but if there was REALLY a need for these jobs the private sector would create them again and they could get re-hired by companies that want to turn a profit rather than by bloated bureacracies that want to get a bigger budget next year. Or they could just privatize a whole department of the govt and appoint a CEO and a board of directors and let them do the firing. Your turn now: SHOW US SOME PROOF DAN!!!

Hmm wasn't aware of Fidanza's lack of a 240mm flywheel. Well, Cody has a point. You could get a strong pp and run the 225 clutch like I'm doing. I don't have a turbo, but I think I'm putting about 225hp to the wheels and not having any problems with an ACT pp and stock disk.

That's all fine and dandy John, and I don't think anyone here is really claiming that their rights have been violated (your previously used argument on other threads about this subject). The issue is that the law allows these rights to be violated and then uses the govt to ensure that they won't be. Kinda like letting the fox into the chicken coop, then allowing the chickens the right to complain and giving the fox review powers to determine if any chickens had been wronged by the fox.

I'm guessing that DAW thought you were using the P head valves which are shorter and would have been a shimming nightmare. Couple questions for you Mack: 1. What was your chamber volume when you were all done unshrouding the valves? 2. Forget 2. I re-read DAW's post. 3. Would it have been easier in retrospect to run a P79 that was shaved since it already has the big valves in it? On another subject, this has been bugging me: Unless you're running flat tops Tim you're not getting the benefit of the quench anyway, so that is not a very good argument for an N42, plus you say you've modded the head, which pretty much throws it all out the window.