JMortensen

OK, I'm going to stitch her up today with any luck, then treat the rust and paint, then hopefully do the Krown thing in the springtime. Thanks for all the advice. I sure got a lot more views when I changed the title from "minor surface rust on frame rails" to "should I start looking for a new shell?" Anyway, thanks again all.

Lexan roof??? I thought they were fiberglass on top. That is quite the change. Hope you like it.

That looks very interesting dot. Maybe I could finish up my mods and take a day trip up to BC next spring. I think that may be just the ticket. Anyone have any easier method of paint removal for the rails?

I guess I'll be needing to remove the subframe then to sand blast it? Cause I know I won't be able to really get inside the rails without removing them. Right? Or is there some kind of expanding foam rust neutralizer that I can spray inside the rails... I didn't think it was that bad, I just didn't know how to deal with it.

I appreciate the advice, but you guys realize that this is the subframe under the rear deck that we're looking at, not the frame rails under the floorpan, right? Just making sure we're on the same page. If it were just the frame rails under the floor it wouldn't even be an issue. I guess I can just pull the sub frame off and clean and weld it back the same way, but I'd have gaps to fill where I cut them away on the sides and back.

Dan it's nice that you're always so level headed and easy to talk to...

Anyone else? Advice please!!!

Agreed.

Yes, but both sides are unwilling to reconcile. Hard line Palestinians are simply opposed to Israel's existence, hard line Israelis will not settle for anything less than borders on the Mediterranean and the Jordan river. I'm not agreeing with calling both sides evil, but I think one side is going to have to kill the other for peace to exist, and I don't think we should be doing the killing. Maybe holding the rest of the world back so the two sides can deal with it themselves... I'm also a little skeptical of the report that John shared the other day that said the fences have "won" the war against terrorism in Israel. Israel as a standalone country... hmmm... how many American troops were present for the Six Days War???

HEY HEY!!! WE AGREE AGAIN!!! I was just pointing that out to show that Saddam was clearly supporting terrorism.

I started to go through your argument point by point again tannji, but it's just ridiculous. You are making the same "what would you tell the victims" and "what if you were a victim" arguments that are PURELY EMOTIONAL. That is not the way to deal with this difficult situation. I will say this: yes, I think I should be allowed to carry a gun on a plane, and I do wonder what would have happened at Columbine had the TEACHERS been carrying concealed weapons. I'm not suggesting that 15 year old kids should be allowed to carry weapons. I've not had my rights infringed upon except when I was accused of "cruising" when I was a teenager. That made me angry then too, BTW. No government agency has tried to kill me or arrest me without cause. Your position, John's position, Mike's position continues to do NOTHING but come up with rationalizations for curtailing the INALIENABLE RIGHTS of 290,000,000 people. That is unacceptable. Mine is a fundamental position, and is not going to change based on the circumstance.

Stick to your guns Pop, and I'll stick to mine. This kind of violation of our rights isn't acceptable in any administration. It's not about intelligence. It's about our "inalienable" rights. Remember those???

Hussein was paying $25K to the family of every Palestinian suicide bomber.

Why can't you 280 guys use the rear mounted 240 bars? I seem to recall that there is something attached to the uprights in back of the diff, but I don't remember what it is. If it could be moved... well there's your answer. If you could use the rear mounted bar I think that would be a lot easier than what you've got there. It's hard to be sure from the picture, but demidion's bar looks like it would bind on compression (just based on the picture).

Maybe it is the UFO Defense. But surely we're not talking about UFO's here. We're talking about giving a govt that has already abused its power in the past powers that the Constitution guarantees that they will not have. That's a little different than some flashing lights in the sky. I'm sure there is a name for the "well you come up with something better" argument that is equally BS. I wasn't arguing that there wouldn't be better intelligence as a result of the PA, I was arguing that it violates my rights. If you or tannji don't like that argument then I refer you back to the possibility that the whole thing never would have happened if law abiding citizens had the right to carry weapons on planes. The Chewbacca thing was hilarious, BTW. I loved that episode. EDIT--Hey, in reading the Chewbacca defense, I think tannji is using it. I'm not arguing for better or worse intelligence. I'm arguing for my rights not to be infringed upon. Thanks for the help there John. I knew that he was making a ridiculous argument so I responded in kind (the wrong thing to do) and then you came to the rescue with some logic supporting my point. Appreciate that.

The problem is that the rust is not on top of the frame rails, it is creeping out from underneath. I really can't dip the car, and I can't take all of the frame rails off to clean inside. Just not possible at this juncture. Maybe I should just forget about stitch welding paint up what I stripped and start putting away a little cash for a new shell???

Isn't it Howard Stern that has this guy on every once in a while. What a jackass. BTW I was in a picket line when I was 5 and it didn't bother me a bit, but it was for a new overpass and no one was being called a fag.

Yep. Seen it on a bunch of 510's and a couple Z's. Pretty sure you have to pull the tranny too.

When it comes to rust and bodywork, I really don't know my ass from a hole in the ground. I took the following pics today: I've been really afraid of rust since I had my Z painted. It was supposed to be taken to bare metal, then epoxy primed, then painted. About 2 years after the paint was done cancer showed in the usual places. I had sections just in front of the rear wheels cut out. Actually had the body guy give me the rusty metal he cut out. That's where the rust came back FIRST. Right now I'm preparing to stitch weld the frame rails, and I find this. I don't think this is major, but I didn't think the other rust was that bad. Is this a big deal? Somewhat normal? Should I worry about it? Is there anything I can do to fix it? The thing is that I push this car HARD. I don't want to go through all the hassle of stitch welding this chassis and have it rot out from under me in 5 years. If this is not a big deal, is there a better way to clean off these frame rails then what I'm doing? I've tried Roloc pads with a 90* die grinder. I've tried paint stripper (Home Depot variety). Now I'm onto a wire brush on the die grinder. It seems to work the best, but there are areas that I just won't be able to get the grinder into that need to be cleaned. Any other suggestions? A better paint stripper? Thanks everyone.

Pretty common with aftermarket pp. Pack a spare...

I don't understand why you have such a holier-than-thou attitude tannji. If I ever google in a post it's because I was taught to BACK UP MY FACTS. I'm bitching about a POTENTIAL problem. If it were an ACTUAL problem then I wouldn't just be bitching. I'd be voting against anyone who supported the act, and if that failed... I've stated, and I think Pop has also stated that we back Bush in the election. Clearly our opposition to the Patriot Act is tempered with some other thought that leads us to believe that Bush is the right man for the job in spite of the Patriot Act. It seems equally clear to me that you would back whatever the president has to say. You want to something to prove? How about proving to Pop and me that the Patriot Act WON'T be abused. If you can prove that, then I'll happily sign on in support of it. Good luck with that one.

Similarly the gov't doesn't have the time or resources to test the long term effects of Syphillis on ALL of its citizens for fun either. Tell it to the people who were part of the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment from 1932-1972. The govt is not benevolent or malevolent by nature. I think it is very myopic to say that this administration won't abuse these powers, so they're OK. It is also foolhearty to say that INDIVIDUALS with access to this power won't abuse it, since we already have examples of that happening. Again, not saying similar abuses of power WOULD happen, just that they are POSSIBLE and that it's NOT WORTH THE RISK IMO. One more thing. I'm not much for CORPORATE encroachment into my privacy either. The Patriot Act is just potentially more dangerous because the government has guys with badges and guns whos' rights come before mine. I do see my Albertson's "Club Card" and my online banking as potential threats as well, but it's unlikely that a clerk at the store is going to "paper or plastic" me to death...

Consider this acknowledged. I don't think there is a police state agenda. I've said that a number of times now. Remove the parts of the act that give the gov't the power to spy on ANYONE without a warrant. I'm not against the whole act. I'm all for roaming wire taps and all that. WITH A WARRANT. Not my job to give you an alternative. My job is to bitch and moan when my rights are being arbitrarily encroached upon. Yes, I meant to say arbitrarily. There is always a handy justification for giving the intelligence agencies more intelligence. It is true that they can do their job more effectively with more intelligence. It is true that it is POSSIBLE to save lives with more intelligence. It is true that I would rather risk death than give it to them. If I had my way 2/3 of the people on those flights would have been armed, so there probably would have been either dead terrorists or massive cabin decompression and a downed airliner. Either way would have been better than what we ended up with. Unfortunately for us all, WE DIDN'T MAKE A BIG ENOUGH DEAL OUT OF IT WHEN OUR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS WERE PREVIOUSLY ABRIDGED!!!

Wheelman, the point is that this act gives the govt the power to curtail your rights. It gives the govt the power to throw parts of the Bill of Rights out the window. The Bill of Rights was created because of the realization that the govt could overstep it's bounds very easily, and it was ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to put limits on govt's power. It was a condition of ratification of the Constitution, and should not be limited unneccesarily. A lot of the computer stuff would never be detected by anyone until the FBI and CIA arrived at your front door. It's like asking "Who here has had their phone tapped?" Well, if it's done right you're not gonna know, are you??? You can try to rationalize with an "I've got nothing to hide" attitude, or a "necessary evil" attitude, but nobody thinks the war on terror is going to end anytime in the forseeable future, so you're basically saying "I agree with the govt's abridging my freedom in this time of crisis, and I am going to rely on the govt to determine when the crisis is over, and I am willing to let the govt decide if the govt screws anyone over." Maybe you're willing to make that statement, but that certainly doesn't mean that everyone should, or that Boner (sorry, couldn't resist) is wrong for questioning it.

Yeah, I went looking for their website to call them again about 6 months ago. The site is gone. I think I posted here asking for the number and was told that he died. Sucks, they were THE BEST people to call for Mikuni stuff IMO.