Gollum

Not to argue, but doesn't that bring me back to my point? If you're in need of sensors or other misc parts that could wear out over time there's a possibility that it could be hard to come by. People with RB motors run into the same problem. Parts get expensive when they're shipped. I've seen that SR dyno before, and it STILL surprises me honestly. I know AMS is putting over 1000HP to 4 wheels in their evo, but that's an iron block, it's EXPECTED to be stronger. Goes to show that many blocks have way more potential than anyone gives credit, just need the right parts and the right tune.

Sorry if I haven't been playing nice admins. I'm trying my best here.

Wow, why do make me out to hate either motor??? The carb fact DOES enter the conversation BECAUSE there's not carb legal turbo kit for a KA, meaning a KA24DET is JUST AS illegal as a SR20DET. So really it's a strike against the KA for those that would hope to get a KA legalized. It means that both motors would be illegal, but you're more likely to keep a KA under the radar in other states and out of urban areas. And my parts argument still stands, but you still don't see my point. I'm not saying there's anything you can't get for a KA turbo motor, my point is that parts aren't as varied and there isn't as much competition. There's just simply less options. Honda guys have more options for parts than everyone else. Everyone excepts this fact and deals with it. A 350SBC has more parts available then a 289SBF. This doesn't mean there's anything you can't get for a 289, just not as many options, simple fact. And again, why are you so quick to argue and seemingly hate me? I haven't lied. I haven't said either motor is bad. Whats your deal man? And thanks for the info on the SR blocks. So can you tell me anything about the heads? What all DO the share in common? I'd assume the cam grinds are different, but what else? The thermostat is in a different location as well isn't it?

Hmm.. that's funny, someone in another thread just stated the FWD NA blocks were different, thus quite different overall. I don't doubt your HP, but we've got conflicting info.

See, i've considered the same EXACT option as you're talking about. In theory you could just ship over a RWD SR20DE from japan, and as long as you use the FWD EFI and manifolds you'll be fine. BUT, those FWD manifolds might not fit... since the intake will be facing the firewall. Manifolds need to be CARB approved in CA (not such for other states, part specific mods can be state dependent). But if you could find a legal turbo kit for FWD application it would be legal to use it in a RWD swap. It's all theoretically possible, but it's the manifolds that give you the trouble. And honestly, many times it's just finding a ref that agrees with you. The ref I know will pass a fuel rail, even though other's won't. In his mind a rail doesn't increase fuel usage if the stock injectors are used, so who cares? It's never stated in law as being illegal, but because it's part of the fuel system some refs just call it illegal. So there's some grey area to a lot of things. The laws put in place are so complicated that those PAID to enforce them can't possible enforce them to the extent their job title requires them to.

intercoolers are legal. They don't alter air or fuel quantities. BOVs are legal IF the retain the stock air route. So if you use one that dumps into the atmosphere you could get a cop biting your head off about it.

But they're different heads, and isn't the only shared internal components the crank and rods? The motors are different compression ratios, and I'm pretty sure overall they aren't as overbuilt. I know I'm no expert in the subject but still, what do they ACTUALLY share in common?

It's not that I'm upset. Its just that we get people asking these questions all the time. It would seem a FAQ would help these issues, but I guess not. Maybe we need to overhaul the FAQ? Maybe. In all seriousness though, PM me if you have questions. I've got lots of knowledge and I'm willing to share IF the person is level headed and smart. I don't enjoy sharing with guys when it all goes in one ear and out another because they've got it all figured out, yet are new to cars... I'm even open to IMs. My computer sits online 24/7.

Depends on what NA parts you actually end up keeping, wich odd are won't be much. Besides, wasn't the argument regarding the SR20DET???? And there ARE NOT as many KA turbo part options out there. That'd be like saying there's as many turbo parts for a RB20 as there is a RB25 or 26. This simply isn't true. Just because there ARE some similarly priced options doesn't mean there's more. The KA never came turbo charged, it's only natural and normal that there's less turbo support out there. Though the KA market is more than double than what it was just a few short years ago. It's definitely a growing market still as americans realize how perfect they are for budget power. There's still not a single carb numbered turbo kit for them though, which is a real shame. I'd be nice to have a legalized KA24DET motor in a Z. The NA SRs here in the USA are also a farcry from the SR20DET. Sure you can turbo it, but why? You're better off just getting a SR20DET from the beginning. So really... why is this even an argument? SR = You got more money and want the revs. KA = budget HP that can still kick butt. Both are good options.

There's some fiction in your truth, and some truth to your fiction. I really don't like this thread, because it DOES look like an argument, which we're not really about here (not like I'm an admin, but I'd love for one to chime in about HZ ethics). If you want an argument go somewhere else. The KA is a strong block, weak stock internals. Blocks are dime a dozen. Less turbo parts available and for the money you'll put on getting turbo manifolds you could have a SR.... Though the KA HAS proven to be able to put down more power in a garage build scenario. It's also proven to be closer in weight than people thing. The NA is within a few pounds of the turbo SR. So once you add your turbo stuff to a KA it's not THAT much heavier, and the extra strength might be worth it. The REAL prize? Parts are cheep and readily available. You don't need to ship something in from japan if you break it.

Man, what is SO hard to understand? I know I pretty much say the ref every day for over a year and we're on a close first name basis but come on! Ok, I'll explain it slowly. Law #1 - NO MOTOR that has NEVER been legalized for USDM use can EVER be put into a USA car REGARDLESS of state OR year. Even a kit car CANNOT legally use a skyline motor. There's NO way to get a legal VIN for it. The ONLY way you'll ever have a JDM motor legalized in the USA is if it's from a FOREIGN vehicle that's been legalized and then passed by the ref. These are special cases and there's a handful a year. Law #2 - JUST because a car is smog exempt DOES NOT mean you can do what ever you want. In the same sense if they decided 85' and older don't have to smog I CAN NOT!!!! Legally go and take of my catalytic converter. Understand? So, basically 90% of swaps out there are illegal. Is that gonna stop you? I don't know. Do I care? No. I won't tell anyone. The cop A - Needs to realize it's illegal and then B - write you a ticket for it. You might be able to sweet talk him and somehow 'prove' it's legal, but odds are you're going to the ref, and then you're in a world of trouble. It's NOT the ref's job to see if everything there is legal. It's YOUR job to prove to him that every thing that should be there is there and is legal. Some more info on getting a swap LEGAL 1) Engine must be from the same year or NEWER 2) Engine must not have any LESS smog equipment (meaning no switching to a carb from efi 3) Engine MUST retain ALL smog equipment and be street legal (no modifications that would alter air or fuel usage without a CARB number) 4) Engine MUST retain OEM distribution and USDM ECU (unless you can find me a EFI system that's CARB approved... fat chance on that one) A SR20 was NEVER used in america, therefor there is NO way for a ref to legalize it. If you're caught with it, you're up @#$^ creek. Edit: I still can't understand why people think smog expect means law exempt. Vehicle laws don't just apply to cars that have to be smogged you know. The laws are general laws regarding ALL cars.

It's tough to say. If you go with VG30ET parts then you've got quite a few junkyard parts you can go with to keep costs down. The SR will have tons more options for doing a turbo conversion, but you're also looking at more cash. The SR will be nice and light and sit nicely in the engine bay keeping things easy to work on. The VG still fits nicely, though I've never found a V motor to be as easy to work on as a 4 cylinder. The S30 chassis is light and even at 300hp the SR will still pull it just fine with it's torque range. The VG will maintain much more mid range and will always be pretty streetable. I'd say the SR if you don't mind the extra costs of all new parts. If you do a full rebuild and lower the compression with some nice high quality pistons you could increase HP pretty easily in the future with minor modification. The VG is much more DIY power and has less options in just about every regard for over the counter performance. It's all what you want really. And I don't think you'll get burned for mentioned your other swap projects. We're REALLY swap happy here, so as long as you don't tell use you're putting a BMW V12 in a ferrari I think we'll be fine

Well, that's why you get an early type r tranny Never go bellow 4k, even on the freeway in 5th. But you're right. After the novelty of rev count wears off you come to the realization "I want more". And as with MOST high rev motors, more HP isn't easy since it was engineered to a very high tolerance tuned very specifically. Turbo motors are great because they're designed with brutal industrial strength first and foremost to withstand boost pressures.

DOHC vs pushrod is a completely different beast. And example would be the fact that fords 4.6 mod motor is MUCH MUCH larger than the 5.0 motor. AND the 4.6 mod motor is an extremely tight fit in a Z, where as the LS1 fits nicely. Apples to Oranges really.

Ok, the pics I promised even though I'm sure nobody really wants to see stock 280ZX cars that are all ugly and all. ^ This was the first one. It had an unfortunate fate. The ebrake would stick, and of course the first thing everyone here suggested was FIX IT! And I hadn't in the first... hmm, i dunno 3 months or so. So I'd just leave it in gear of course, as I always would with any stick shift. Well one night it decided to pop out of gear while parked on a hill. Went about 30 feet into a tree. Hit the corner of the car and magically didn't break any windows, but was still a joke to fix. So I bought this: ^ This one I got for $500 (even towed it to my house for free). Needed a FPR, fuel pump, and quite of bit of the car just put back together. There was quite a bit of missing interior, but I just used the interior from the last one. And now... ^ That's my turbo donor. She's got some miles, but hey, worst case scenario I just have to get another motor right? I'm considering hunting down a junkyard turbo block to rebuild on my own. It's been a long time since I've helped rebuild a motor and I've never done it on my own, so it would be fun to do. Maybe even use a LD28 crank while I'm at it. So that's where I'm at with these stupid things we're all obsessed with. I can't seem to shake the addiction.

Might be worth taking donations for braap I can't really donate much of anything right now though. Can't think of much for you to weigh for me though either. Hope it all wokrs out for ya braap.

Someone thinks there's not enough S130's on hybridz?! Well maybe they're right, but it's not all bad. There's a few of us on here. The BIG problem is that because in most states they're not smog exempt they're not as common for engine swaps. Because not as many engine swaps they're not as common on THIS site becuase THIS site is based soley on "hybrid" cars. So instead the S130 is more known as "donor" I myself have only owned S130 cars. 3 now. 1 being a turbo donor. I'm not a fan of the 2+2 cars, their propotions are all off to my eye and I'm not a fan of the uneeded weight. I'm nearing completion of my turbo swap, and it'll remain purely a street car for some time. Once I get a second car for a daily driver and have more money to put into the car I'll revamp the suspension, get some larger rims, and get some nice fat tires under those wheel wells. Then it'll get at most an intercooler, megasquirt, and possibly a fuel rail (+ other supporting/obvious mods). Someday I'd like to have a slicktop (aka hardtop) S130, auto-x/track car with something small and mean. Overall it's amazing how little many Z guys think of the S130. It's not really all much heavier than a S30 and a bit more rigid (from what I've seen/heard). It's got a plenty large engine bay for swaps, sharing many dimensions with the S30 car. The main downfall is that it's not as "ideal" of a suspension setup, but people have proven it's capable. I know they're also not the better looking Z car to most people. But the ZX suffers from poor stock styling imo. The chrome trim is overused, and there's jsut too many lines going on everywhere. The louvers are a joke, and the bumpers stick out way too far and it's just.... lacking. But many of these things can be fixed, but the big one that bugs me the most is the bumpers. I'd really like to make my own bumpers someday that sit more flush with the body and don't look like a peice of rubber that's been stuck onto the body. Anyways, I should stop my ranting/rambling. I like the S130, so count me if your counting the S130 guys. I'll try to get some pics up tonight, i'm on a random laptop right now so no pics at the moment. Good luck with the turbo conversion, these can be fun cars when they're running, and though a pain sometimes, they're a lot more fun to work on than some other cars.

unless you wanna somehow magically widen the engine bay by a good 5 inches on each side I don't really see it happening. The only way I could see it being done is if you completely tube framed the front end. That's a huge undertaking when you could do a RWD conversion easily enough by comparison. I admit it'd be cool, just very daunting and utterly ridiculous for most gear heads.

I'm not sure of who makes it. It's kinda like the ford/mazda motors. If anyone can figure out those relationships and who does exactly what they deserve a noble prize.

I'm not sure what main issues DSM guys have other than tranny problems, but the fastest DSM guy out there (pro level dragster, not even close to street) switched to a powerglide after constantly battling tranny issues. The AMS evo is now putting down 1013 AWHP, which of course is a bit nuts for a 2.1 liter. Also lets be clear there's two main versions of these motors. There's the wide bock evo types (also used in the turbo DSMs i believe) and the regular eclipse type. They can be distinguished by the width of the block and how many bolts are on the fly. The evo is the wide block while the narrow block is poo. The starion/might max tranny will bolt up to the narrow block is what I believe people talk about. I can't find an actually case of an EVO motor specifically mating up to that tranny, just people on message boards saying you can. There's lots of ideas of what "might" work, but not much hard document on what's been proven to work.

I've been talking about this swap with people for a while now. It's a great idea because it's actually a fairly affordable turbo 4 engine to build. Once you get the RWD conversion settled and in place the rest of the costs are cheaper than any turbo 4 I know. There's no limit. You can build a budget 500hp, or go all out and get 900+ hp if you wanna spend the real bucks. There's even aftermarket heads. Pretty impressive. But, getting it into a RWD application is still a huge chunk of the overall cost, which destroys a lot of the swaps good qualities. Very good motors though, even the DSM versions. You'll find plenty of DMS making huge power on insanely small budgets, but their main issue is tranny problems.

I'm with brapp on this one. The only thing I could fathom that would make them near equal would be if the VH is only a couple of inches longer, which I doubt since well over 4 liters. If it were a 3-3.5 liter V8 then the additional number of pistons, con rods, longer crank, etc wouldn't really matter because the overall engine size would be about the same. But something tells me that's not the case, and that the VH is indeed quite larger. If an engine's block made up 70-80% of an engine's weight I could see the move to aluminium offsetting the weight enough so that the VH would be lighter, but frankly that's not the case guys. If a block weights less than 300 pounds, how are you ever gonna remove 200+ pounds? It's a bit far fetched if you ask me. If they came out to EQUAL or NEAR weights I'd be surprised and I'd consider it good news. People talk about the 1UZ weighing around 500 pounds and it's one of the smallest and lightest V8's ever made. The whole engine's engineering was based around saving weight were ever possible. The VH is a much more stout motor and capable of more displacement. I can't imagine it weighing less than 590 with accessories. And turbo's don't weigh THAT much guys. I've done and seen plenty of turbo conversion done to know that it's not a huge difference. Considerable yes, but worth debating over? No. Turbos themselves are light. The main thing that'll add weigh is the manifolds. An intercooler isn't dreadful either, and most people go with a larger unit than they need anyways.

"hey, I'm gonna practice painting, I'm gonna paint in black the easiest color to see flaws in" Show off Car looks GREAT though man. I'm really digging it.

Lets not forget about the gearing either. Many of the stock B16 trannys have a final drive ratio of 4.44..... Put that motor in ANY car with something less than 3.9 and it's going to dog and not rev happily. It's important to gear a car according to how large your power band is and how much torque you have. Small little NA motors aren't fun with low gearing, and broad power V8s aren't fun when you spend all your time shifting. And the honda having torque comment, yea I thought it was funny too The main reason racers eliminate the Vtec is because it's one more thing to fail and it's not needed. You can deal with the rough idle and low speed diveability well enough. Muscle guys run loppy cams all the time and cope just fine. They have to deal with getting a motor rev'ed and putting to much power down to control, 4 cylinder guys just have to deal with getting the revs high enough before feathering the clutch (i've driven 400+hp turbo hondas, they're are DOGS bellow 3k)

Because for of all the fun swaps I can think of honda would be last on the list And team nissan brings up a good point. Most road racers eliminate Vtec. Vtec is more about economy, don't let the honda ads about low end torque fool you.