Gollum

Is anyone (here) using this as a primary dash readout? It's really got me thinking... I'm doing all this work to wire my gauges since I'm rewiring my car from scratch, and if I'm going to install MS I might as well just run a android tablet as a carputer and be done with it. Can anyone find any reason to install traditional gauges? I understand that mechanical gauges for oil pressure and traditional cool temp gauges are more "reliable" in some ways, but any new car uses 100% digital signal to their gauges... ...so for those that haven't seen my car, I'm just using a steel plate in the center for my gauges. If I ditch my gauges all I need is a switch panel. What's the worst that can happen? My tablet looses signal/connection with MS and my dash goes blank... how is that any different than my current situation (no speedo, no lights at night...)? I've also seen guys use a VSS to add a MPG gauge to tunerstudio's dashboard, which I imagine this could also handle just fine. The only real questions I have beyond all what I've stated, is that I'd like to get the tablet I'd use to recognize voice commands so I could switch to google navigation while driving and go back and forth between that and my dash, or even better yet, find a way to run apps WITHIN shadow dash....

Hey Mike, I know this is a personal question and as such you're 100% allowed to just say "I'm not telling you" and that's a-o-kay. But IF you don't mind, what's your insurance coverage on it, and what's it running you? I know these figures vary GREATLY by state and of course your own history, but I'm just curious what that car costs someone in your position to insure.

And the big difference between this situation and someone like Big Phil is that big phil understands how little he knows and understands that he's flying by the seat of his pants 90% of the time and is okay with that. Phil has blown turbos, transmissions, and engines, and still keeps at it, learning as he goes. There's nothing "wrong" with that approach, but it's certainly the more expensive route. There's quite a few people I know who "cut their teeth" working on cars at the local junior college. Take an auto class, use your car as your subject, and you've got eyes checking your work, making sure you're doing things right. You also get access to a lot of tools you wouldn't otherwise get. I've told people many times that THIS is the way to go to get your feet wet working on your own project. Otherwise you're either going to spend the same money or more fixing mistakes, or you'll be spending the countless hours learning on your own BEFORE assembling parts. I don't mean any of this in disrespect to Ben. I wish him and his project the best. I don't condone Tony being an ass at times, but I also know that you just need to get some thick skin around him to take from him what you can. I've been offended at times to things he's said to me, but I got over it and learned to read things as though it was coming from an older brother who slaps you upside the head when you do something stupid FOR YOUR BENEFIT.

Click http://bit.ly/12JuOJF Found: http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i27/2778_8lo.jpg

Paid $200 for my last longblock. Complete from Oil Pan to valve cover. Included turbo manifold, but not the turbo. Included Intake manifold, plus injectors, but no wiring harness. No ECU. No Trans. But I DID have to pull it myself at the seller's house while he sat there drinking beers and having a good ol' time not getting his hands dirty. It's getting HARD to find the really good deals, and setups like what ray sold, a complete engine READY TO GO are getting pricey. At some point I have to start asking "is it cheaper to make your own turbo conversion?" Really, what's the main part that nobody wants to make? The exhaust manifold. Everything else is easy stuff to deal with. You can use ANY intake, especially if you're adding an intercooler and throwing out the j-pipe. You can use ANY turbo that fits your exhaust mani. You can use ANY injectors and EFI as long as you tune it. If you had a welder and were decently competent with it you could weld up a manifold from mandrel bends bought just about anywhere these days. So lemme pull some numbers out of my ass: Parts you NEED off a turbo or to replicate Turbo Manifold: $150 w/tax & shipping Bends $14 each, buy 5 and see if you can make two!: $100 http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/mandrel-bends-34/mild-steel-10-11-gauge-112/1-63-mild-steel-2-50-radius-11-gauge-180-deg-mandrel-bend-2022.html Most expensive flange I saw, T6: $25 http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/flanges-gaskets-36/turbo-flanges-62/t6-turbo-divided-inlet-flange-1-2-mild-steel-2612.html Flange at head side, cut up a throw away header someone has: $20 Turbo: $250 And that's being GENEROUS. You can find a million turbos in that price range that will work just as well, if not better, than the stock T3... Ignition System: $150 Any stock Nissan setup from a NA engine won't do, so don't try it! You NEED ignition retard under boost so you'll either need to get a coil that MS or some other EMS is controlling, or you'll need to get a standalone ignition system like MSD makes, or megajolt, etc Fuel System: $800 There's a million subparts to this that I won't get into. But even if you're doing MS2 and building it yourself you'll still need to buy a wiring harness, or make one yourself. You'll need something triggering MS, you'll need a IAT sensor, a CHT sensor, relays, etc, etc, etc. I do plan on doing a MS3X conversion this year and will be setting aside $1500 and I'm not sure I'll be able to get COP running in the price range as LSx coils aren't exactly cheap. Parts that go into a swap Intercooler: $250 You be buying this either way and there's a million kits on ebay. Downpipe: $75 Considerably easier to make than a manifold, and shouldn't even cost this much in materials. Exhaust: $100 Unless you're really lazy at this point just make it yourself as you've already done all the hard bits, and might cost less than this in reality, just like the DP. BOV: $20-150 Spend what you want to spend, but most of them do the same freakin' job and do it just fine. I'm partial to recirculating types, but that's me. Injectors: $400 Spend less than that and you're mileage may vary. Stock injectors most people like to replace anyways, as they start to choke pretty good above 250whp. They can make it to 300 but it's going to take a lot of fuel pressure added. Injector rail: $100 This is a cosmetic upgrade, make no mistake about it. But that said, most of us do it. Clutch Kit: $250 Get a good clutch or you'll be sorry. If you've sprung for a lightweight flywheel this is even MORE important. I could go on and on. There's tires that'll most likely need upgrading, heat wrap or shields to protect things from the turbo heat, and on and on. But the key points here, is that the main cost of REPLICATING what you really NEED from the turbo engine is CHEAP other than the EFI. The reality though is that the stock EFI is just about WORTHLESS this day in age, and you'll most likely be replacing it anyways. Once you've settled in your mind that you're going to ditch the stock EFI down the road, just do yourself the favor and make a turbo manifold and call it done, and say "screw you" to everyone that wants $1k+ for an engine that's mostly worthless.... Or you can just pay $1k for a motor and drop it in with very little added cost and be happy with it. But I guarantee that eventually 99% of us will want more power, and then the cycle of all sorts of add on costs will start to creep up. First it'll be just a boost controller. Then it'll be a RRFPR. Then it'll be an intercooler. Then it'll be a clutch. Then it'll be MS. Then it'll be injectors. Then it'll be fuel pump. Then it'll be turbo... ...or you could spend about half the money and do it ONCE, and DO IT RIGHT.... My $.02

a cigarette break

On the upside, you could modify a GT to reach near Boss track times for not a whole lot of money. I'm sure a HUGE difference is just in the tires, while the weight savings, tad more power, suspension, and aero make up the rest little bit by little bit.

Oh that makes me so happy mike! And I really love that it's got none of the fancy "look at me" bits that kind of drive me nuts about most mustangs. I hope she takes care of you for a long time to come.

Wait, aren't we over complicating this? A surge point has to do with a FLOW and PRESSURE point on the compressors map.... MAF on inlet, MAP on output. Done! Who cares what the turbo RPM is, as that only relates to efficiency? A simple setup like this you could combine with any wastegate control scheme, weather you wanted to control boost at certain RPM in order to make the engine more streetable, or a basic manual boost controller. If you had a graphical map on your tuning points then you could literally just copy the compressor map provided by your manufacture, assuming they make them public. From there you can fine tune it in case your system causes variations. Can you tell I'm avoiding the idea of a $1500+ turbo tach install?

I really don't understand half the crap you say sometimes Tony. But it's entertaining nonetheless. BTW: I got it after about the third time reading it, very funny. The thing about bleeding excess pressure to get away from the surge area of the compressor map, is that it can be tuned, like anything else controlled by a computer, PLC, etc. There's really no need for 3+ sensors to make it "work" unless you don't ever want to have the need to tune the sucker. Take any NA engine and dyno it. It's going to produce a reasonably consistent amount of power, and the torque curve will be for the most part similar every time. Yes there's variances due to outside temp. Yes there's variances for other reasons. But, it's relatively consistent. It's these consistencies that makes the world of carburetors still a viable option today. Run the engine a bit rich and a multitude of sins are forgiven. Same principle could apply here if it had to. You don't need to be on the bleeding edge of surge, just close enough to be safe. I wouldn't measure against MAP. I'd make a simple tuning map that works by engine RPM and turbo inlet MAS. If we know how much air the turbo is sucking, and what engine RPM we're at, then we can bleed off the required amount of that inlet air in order to prevent surge. Will it bleed off excess during part throttle? I'd think not since the inlet to the turbo will be lower as well. Does that sound like it might work Tony? For me, I'd like to avoid having to run a turbo RPM sensor since if I do this I want to make it fairly simple just to show how easy it could be done. With megasquirt you can have both a MAP and a MAS, and you don't necessarily have to use both for fuel calculations. What I'm unsure of, is if you're running a MAP like the "MAP Daddy" which has two MAP sensors, one for manifold and one for atmospheric correction, if the software will still recognize another input for MAP (I simply haven't touched the software interface myself yet so I don't know)

Well, I guess this looks my to do list: Bottle of seafoam: $13 Straight 40w Oil, 5 quarts: $28 Bosch OIl Filter: $8 Total: Approx $55 w/Tax out the door Then, if that happens to reduce oil consumption considerably... F-Pro Head Gasket: $24 F-Pro Intake/Exhaust Gasket: $11 F-Pro Valve Cover Gasket" $11 F-Pro Valve Steam Seal Kit (box of 12): $20 Consumables (sand paper, razors, grinder bits, etc): $30 Head mild overhaul: Approx$100 w/Tax out the door So for about $150 and a solid weekend of casual work maybe I could fix it... Well, if I was going to do all that I should also change my plugs out, plug wires, cap and rotor, etc. It all banks on how the seafoam handles that oil consumption though. I'm not going to dig into the head just to find out that it's still leaking oil like crazy....

EG: NAWWWWWZ As far as part application, I think the diverter valve Tim linked should work, wouldn't it Tony? We're not talked about bleeding off HUGE amounts of air since most setups will only surge for a small portion of operation, and it's during building turbine speed, like you noted.

that she itched

You know, several people have mentioned running a straight weight oil, you guys really got me thinking about it again... And tony, I think I probably DO have some stuck oil control rings. Suggestions? The marvel mystery oil stuff maybe? I'm kind in the same boat though. I can live with the oil consumption since it's pretty trouble free otherwise. And since you asked so nicely duragg: No pics of the engine, I'll have to work on that. I've got to order some parts for it actually. You don't get different thickness lash pads for these motors, but instead they offer different thickness rocker holder dealios that they call "pressure pieces" in the service manual. One cyclinder is reading ZERO PSI because the valve isn't able to seat. I'm going to have to be uber careful about valvetrain wear on this thing. It was rebuilt about 12 years ago, but was only about 2,000 miles ago. So the rings, bearings, rubber parts in carb, etc are all brand new, but this motor has seen AT LEAST 400k miles. Speed stopped working sometime in the 80's. It was the car my wife actually learned how to drive in. No PS, 4 speed manual (floor shifter, kinda rare actually for these cars), and pretty darn gutless. My wife is quite fond of it, so you can imagine that it's not really going anywhere for a while. I'm still weighing the data to figure out how long I have to wait to even THINK about bringing up the IDEA of a swap.......... So far I'm not a huge fan of this motor... And it's not the lack of power that bothers me...

So from what I can remember and also find via google, we've danced around the subject time and time again, with Tony D often the instigator, but I'm gonna bring it up yet again because there aren't really threads DEDICATED to talk about it. It just comes up in related topics... What's "it"? Compressor bleeding. Bleed excess air at lower RPM when running high boost to prevent the turbo from surging. As boost increases and the engine can't ingest enough air to keep the compressor happy, you vent the excess air to push the turbo further into the flow axis of it's map, thus moving away from the surge. In theory you could run a turbo literally RIGHT on the limits of surge without actually surging if you had enough control points, data, a controller capable of doing it all. Also as the theory goes, a simple PID controller will do the job, which makes sense. I've now used PID controllers in the temperature realm for industrial application, and I can see how it would be easy to rig. The problem I'm having is that I can't find ANYTHING in the realm of AIRFLOW controlling PIDs, especially for automotive applications.... Tony "claims" to know a guy who was controlling his Z32TT with a product on the market that seems to work for this application. I haven't seen any info on what this product is, if it's really plug and play, what it uses for sensor inputs, what type of programmable control you have over it etc.... Any why bring this all back up again? Because with MS3 and the MS3X expansion card, stuff like this should be old hat to set up, yet I'm not seeing it done. I plan to go MS3 this year finally, and I have big plans on how I'm going to use the grunt of the MS3X expansion down the road. I plan to run a staged injection with different fuel types, running sequential on the smaller pump gas injectors. I also plan to control fuel temps, which I already have a PID controller picked out in case I can't get MS3 to do it how I'd like. I'll also be running COP with individual spark trimming. All this fancy stuff, and I'll still have I/O available to use. The question is... is there code to support something like this? I think it was also mentioned at one point, that this type of bleed system could also double as your throttle lift BOV as well. If it's input for vacuum/boost is post throttle plate then as soon as you slam the throttle shut and there's vacuum in the intake manifold again, the PID controller will see a severe pressure/RPM offset and will start venting pretty much everything. If you could hook your valve to an output from MS and actually build a table for it, you could literally map out just about any possible scenario. The beauty in this type of a setup, and what still draws me to is, is that it's a form of VARIABLE BOOST CONTROL, without all the mucking about with crappy electronic boost controllers that can just about never seem to do their job right. You can have a simple single setting boost control, be manual or electronic, and set it for the required pressure for your power goals, and the bleeder takes care of the rest. You'll always get as much air as your engine will allow that compressor to give it at that given point. And on that note, this also means you can run an absurdly offset compressor/turbine combo as long as you don't care about pressure ratios (which you shouldn't really, you should just care about how the dyno looks regarding how power is developed and how much of it). With a setup like this you can run a really small turbine, or a large turbine with a tiny AR, with a huge, MASSIVE compressor because WHO CARES if it's gonna surge like hell. You'll be avoiding that completely and there's a good chance that even with the bleeding you'll still be developing good flow/boost at lower RPMs still, but you'll have the benefit of that giant compressor generating much less heat at your HP goals. Will top end be hurt? Not extremely likely. Make sure you have a GOOD wastegate setup and overcome any flow restriction with more boost. More pumping losses? Probably, but who cares when the goal is raw power? Anyway, my time is up for tonight. Hopefully I'll get some input for some of you people out there and we can work on drawing up some system diagrams.

I'd be surprised if the valves and guiders were THAT bad. At 250k this motor is still a yunggin' by some standards. Though I admit, there might be some abnormal wear in some areas due to neglect... I'd imagine the cam/lifters going long before the valves, valve seats, guides. I knew she could use stem seals the first day I got her, about 5 years ago now... IF I actually keep the car long term, which I doubt, I think I'll end up pulling the head and doing a major overhaul on it, just because. I wouldn't mind shaving it down .08 and such, maybe massage the chamber a tad before tossing the valves out. Toss in a mild cam just for fun and wha-la revived little engine. But no matter what I need to buy another car soon, so really it's the question of weather or not this car gets the axe, which is most likely will. Time will tell.

Well see that's the thing... If I keep 'er full she'll eat at least a quart a tank. Run 'er almost bone dry and she'll eat about half that thanks to the lower oil pressure... just gotta watch out for the sound of that cam grinding.... Depends on the oil I'm using. It never smokes enough that I'm making a cloud going down the freeway, but it'll smoke in the morning with lighter oils and people behind me complain about the smell... I currently run 20-50 with a stop-smoke additive (not a super heavy tacifier type). That helps the cold smoking immensely and also allows me to engine brake without killing myself of fumes... . Considering how this thing treats plugs you can imagine I've tried quite a few in just 50k. I've seen zero difference in how any of them perform/last for this engine. In the end, new plugs are great, and that fresh power feeling lasts about..... 1k and then it's just meh.

So I was working on our Merc today ('66 250S) and did a compression test trying to figure out why I was down a cylinder. Well, since I had everything out I went ahead and finally got around to testing my DD, the '81 280ZX. This motor now has 250k on the odo and I've put 50k of those on there, which is now officially the most miles I've put on a single datsun motor. I've done a pretty good job at trying to kill it to. I got the car for free so it's been more of a "well if I don't do this maintenance it might explode" type of mind frame. The engine consumes oil about as hardcore as it drinks gas, which also isn't great. It gets about 20-28 MPG depending on what oil I'm running that day and how many cold starts it's endured on that tank. Usually I get around 22-24 for 90% of my tanks. According to a wideband at the tailpipe the O2 isn't doing too bad. Onto the test conditions: Engine HAD been warmed... about 1.5 hours prior. Was probably decently cold again, but as ambient was in the 60's it couldn't have gotten TOO cold in that time. Oil was 20/50w last time I filled it. I was too lazy to get IN the car to turn the key each time, so the throttle was closed. To compensate I get the cylinder testing reach it's compression stroke a good 4 times before taking a reading. (can you tell how much I care for this engine's well-being?) I went ahead and did dry AND wet tests, since I was semi-concerned about my ring wear. So the numbers: Cylinder/Dry/Wet 1.__180__190 2.__190__191 3.__179__182 4.__183__188 5.__182__189 6.__190__196 Conclusion: The numbers are much higher than I expected... FSM says standard is 171, and min should be 128. Also says that the lowest reading should be within 80% of highest. I have a mere 94ish% variance... which utterly shocked me. So, why might the numbers be high? Maybe carbon build up? Maybe the fact that I burn so much oil there's black sludge in my chambers? Maybe my tester is just reading high? (unlikely as the merc numbers were on the money down in the 120 range) Or could my engine be absurdly healthy? (unlikely as well...) Well, here's my plugs before I cleaned them this evening. They read 6-1 from left to right, as you would see them standing on the passenger side of the engine bay. They're only about 5-7k miles old, but this is the first I've pulled them since first install. Next step is to check my valve clearance. It's possible I'm a bit loose and need to tighten things up. That might also bring compression numbers down a tad. Then maybe if I figure out the oil consumption issue I can get on with beating the hell out of this engine for another 50k. I'm debating pulling the head to see if the gasket has been leaking at all. I know this head has seen some serious overheating, before and during my ownership, and I wouldn't be surprised if she's not sealing quite as well as she should. All comments/suggestions welcome. I know this has been an aimless post, but that's because it's more for the documentation for myself and others, rather than solving problems I don't care much about.

I really like the BRZ, and I think you know what you'll get there. The new 5.0 is one bad arse stang. Probably won't win to many time trials, but 11's on the 1/4 with a stock engine? That's wicked fast for the price and it's one of the better handling stangs in recent years. A used 04-06 STI can be had for about half your budget in GREAT shape. I know it's not RWD, but they're EXTREMELY fun, AND comfortable AND easy to daily. Main downside is that some of the expendables are spendy (like brakes and such), but I'm sure you'd expect that with the territory. The 370Z seems like a great car on paper. I still haven't driven one... Not exactly eager to so I haven't gone out of my way to find one to drive. I wouldn't be against you getting one I guess. Just.... meh. Again, not RWD but maybe a fun DD is the mini. Like a typical bimmer once they hit 5 years old they kind sink in value. You can get a CLEAN cooper S with low miles for a song and a dance. Just enough power to be fun on the street and a good enough platform to throw around a track imo. They're kind of the modern day CRX platform if you ask me, and I wouldn't mind owning one. There's also the Genesis Coupe, but if I recall correctly you've already got an opinion of hyundai and I don't blame you. They're not for everyone. The mac daddy of all options though, if you can find one near your budget.... .... ....you ready mike? 2011 BMW 1 M Series... Little over budget, but turbocharged inline 6 in a relatively lightweight 2 door? Sign me up!

I do believe there are factory cast heads in that power range... obviously highly modified, but still. Weather or not they make as much power as soon and with as broad of a curve, I'm not privy to those details. Overall though, meh. I'm kinda over the os giken head hoopla. It's just a head, and it's never been about all out power, but prestige. Which I don't have the time, money, or patience for. If I wanted prestige I'd be saving pennies for a real GTO... That I could then never drive...

my attic horde

Wow that got off topic fast... Anyhoo, AT LEAST download the FSM for free. It goes through just about ANYTHING you need to know when it comes to working on these cars. I might be guess a bit high, but I'd say that a good 75% of threads in this forum section have questions that are easily answered by the FSM. Absolutely shocking how rampant the lack of interest to read the damn thing is. The manual even has a full section dedicated to the basic tune up...

Most problems will get resolved with persistence and creativity. I've done an engine swap in the mud having ZERO space, using just a cherry picker and scissor jacks, and not a single oil pan, firewall, or core support got bent! But yes, it took time, and some excise in creative thinking. You can get a LOT of piping where it needs to go if you just take your time and plan it out, then make it work when the plans fail.

Well you're lucky to have an account, because when the switched to this forum software/format they warned people for MONTHS that if they didn't update their location in their profile then their account would be deleted. I understand your frustration, but bad talking the rules never helps anyone. Personally I'm glad they stress putting up your location. There's been several times I've gone to post information for someone, and then I realize where they're located and totally had to re-write my post because I didn't realize where they were. I have members all over the WORLD, not just in the USA and having everyone at least share what region they're in, and having everyone join together with one common language really helps EVERYONE benefit. As to your questions, the link bludestiny posted is full of great info, though it doesn't talk much about the N47 head much. Check out this section of the forum http://forums.hybridz.org/forum/90-l-series/ and read up if you plan on doing your own engine work, or hope to not be had by some shade tree machinist that says "yea I can work on that" while having ZERO experience with L or other inline 6 heads. As to using flat tops with a N47, there's no reason you can't do it. Give it enough cam and your timing shouldn't be impossible to set on pump gas. The reason for people suggesting using the P90 is that compression for compression it will yield a much better result. The challenge of course is getting the compression there. This isn't a huge problem if you shave the head, or plan on running a 3+ liter short block. And all that said, ALL of the heads have room for MASSIVE improvement when it comes to flow. There's also MASSIVE amounts of information on this site regards to porting. So much so all I'll say is that you'll want to spend most of your energy on the chamber. Absolutely forget about doing runner porting and that's it. It's a waste of time.

Does it suck in air? Then it's going to produce fumes! Now, the quality of said fumes depend on a million factors. Will it be carbed or EFI? Are you running all original rubber fuel lines? Have you inspected the rubber in the back at the fume tank deal (can't remember it's exact name)? Are you planning on running a CAT? Are your seals in good shape (that means firewall, HVAC, Doors, Windows, Hatch, Tail Lights, etc)? New cars produce plenty of fumes in their own right, they just smell a heck of a lot better and what you CAN smell usually doesn't get into the cabin thanks to much better seals that are NEW versus mediocre seals that are 30+ years old...