Gollum

The only true "base" models I've seen without A/C, Power Windows, Power Steering, T-Top, etc was a '79, in which that was much more common. It was in the junkyard and rust free. I cried. Those models also had the high speed dash that went to... 130mph or something? I've always wanted a complete base model S130 as a lightweight daily drive. Even using the L28 hopped up a bit and mounted 3 inches back and 2 inches down could make for a sick street car. Throw in a mild turbo 4 or more high strung NA 4 and it could be a truly wicked Z that would be completely unexpected by anyone you see on the street. I just realized that all had nothing to do with your question really... but I had fun sharing it. Anyways, if it had power windows (which most did) it should have had an A/C option. Most were also auto-climate though, especially '82-'83 when it seems like just about every car got every option.

Later 260Z and early 280Z are my pick, but mostly from a high HP standpoint. If I was just looking for a little 300hp mild build and wanted full interior and such, the 72-73 240Z isn't a bad choice at all. In the end, whatever has the least amount of RUST is always the best buy. And for what it's worth, my '75 280Z weighs less than quite a few people's 240Z's... and I've got a few extra pounds with a turbo setup. Last weight was in the 2500 range (2540 or there abouts irrc, it's in the weight thread). It had: bumpers removed, no interior other than seats and floor mats, lots of dynomat (blaaa), spare tire, some random tools, L28ET (no intercooler), 280ZX radiator, stock tank about 3/4 full or something. I listed it all on here when I weighed it. Point being, I was surprised and many without first hand 280Z experience were a bit too. I could still convert to R180 and save some weight there too. Now that I've stripped the 280Z doors I'm convinced they're not much heavier either. Most of the weight in the door overall is the glass, window crank system, and the hinges. My 280Z is currently living in the garage while other things take priority over MS for now, but in the mean time I've been rewiring it, swapping doors to ones without natural weight reduction (rust) and will be running windowless doors. I'm shaving every mount and random piece off the car I can find, and I'm debating converting the tail lights to a simple LED setup for weight... I've considered swapping to a subie R180 for weight savings too, but that's a whole nother project requiring money. My goal: A street driven rat-rod style Z that's track ready that weights in around 2200 pounds. If I'm right, I'm within 100 pounds right now, and I know where most of the weight left to get me there is... I'm not sure that having a 240Z in the beginning would have saved me more than 100 pounds in the end. And I'm also convinced I could get a S130 to roughly within 100 pounds trim for trim of my 280Z, for what it's worth... So in the end, the weight isn't a huge concern to me, but if you're planning on keeping it a "simple" project and don't want to get knee deep in project, then the 240Z can start to look like a good option. But just converting to 240Z style bumpers gets you 90% of the way there and isn't that big of a project, but still something to consider. The benefit though, is that if you're going the EFI route then the 280Z might make more sense. If you're going to have more than 300hp, then the 280Z might start to make sense. If you're wanting to keep your budget to a minimum, the 280Z might make more sense, as they tend to cost less from the get go for a low-rust chassis. And all that said... I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 240Z if the right deal came along and I had the cash in hand.

Hell, I bet there's room in the engine bay for THREE turbos! (man I'd love to do that...) I'm personally not at all a fan of rear mounted turbos, and that subject has been beaten to death. But yes, the S30 is no different than any vehicle, and it could be done. I'm glad you're going to read corky's book, which will explain very well why the STS systems are NOT the most competitive in the world and don't operate all that wonderfully. The benefits are for a very select crowd which rarely happens upon HybridZ, let alone becomes a regular contributing member. Getting a turbo manifold should be easy, and cost less than $150. I sold my last one for like $40 because it had a stud that needed replacing and was going to be a pita for anyone to do in a garage. I bought my last turbo longblock for $200, though I had to pull it myself in an evening in the guy's backyard. Only thing I didn't get was the wiring and turbo. I just about broke even selling the parts I didn't need, and gave good deals to fellow members. And if you really had THAT hard of a time finding one, you could build one for not too much more money. Take the cheapest header to can find as a flange donor, cut it up, reuse some of the piping if you want, order some bends for the rest, tack weld it in place if you can't weld it yourself, bring it to a welder, done. Probably cost you around $200 in materials and $200 for the welders time if you pay him REALLY well. Shouldn't be much more than an afternoon project if you've got it all lined up right. I plan to make a turbo manifold down the road, but only because I want to place my turbo in a very particular spot that isn't very close to stock and would be hard to extend the stock manifold to. Plus the stock manifold is like 20 pounds, it's a heavy beast. Oh, and I've seen guys build turbo manifolds for under $150 on their own, but they were fairly competent fabricators who did it all themselves from scratch spending most of their money on nice SS mandrel bends.

Don't forget that water/meth injection is really just a better version of E85. The same dual injection setup you'd use for meth could also be done with E85, and would be cheaper per gallon. The big difference is that 1.0 Lambda for water/meth is around 6.5:1 while E85 is up around 9.5:1, meaning you generally get more power bump from methanol. Both will do the job of removing detonation though, and should allow for much more aggressive timing/all around tune.

In that sense you're right, but let's not forget that a huge part of what makes a 2 stroke a 2 stroke motor by definition is that it makes power each time the piston reaches TDC. You could manually force air in and out of a 2 stroke and actually "seperate" the time in which they happen, but if it's still making power every 2 strokes of the piston, then it's a 2 stroke motor. Just because a radically cammed 4 stroke bleeds it's cycles into each other like crazy doesn't make them less of a 4 stroke. They still take 4 full strokes to make their complete cycle. A rotor doesn't really have a "cycle", which is why it's so hard to compare. The rotor never "moves back" and is always in a continual state of rotation. The only way you can call it a 4 stroke is by the fact that there's 4 distinct events, intake, compression, power, and exhaust. Study aircraft turbine engines, they don't bother with specifying a stroke number because it simply doesn't matter. But the only way I can personally "make" a comparison, is it compare it to a 2 stroke that tends to always be doing something with no wasted time like a typical 4 stroke, and also requires lubrication internally. Much more in common than a 4 stroke imo.

Fricfrac is spot on. The TPS conversion is easy as pie with a 240SX throttle body. If you find the right one it even has a spot to hook up the older style on/off tps plus the fully wiping tps. Definitely consider heavily your goals and if it really makes sense to buy stock turbo parts (like injectors) versus new parts. In many cases getting new aftermarket stuff just makes more sense, so shop around and compare your shopping cart to your goals in mind. If you only want 250whp then an all stock setup+intercooler is fine, but you've already mentioned MS which makes me think you want room to grow beyond that. So here's a more complete shopping list recommendation: Intake Mani Turbo Exhaust Mani (you could make one if you have the skills, but the OEM is fine well up to 500hp and beyond) Fuel Rail Injectors Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator T3/T4 Turbo Downpipe Intercooler Plumbing for intercooler 240SX throttle body 240SX TPS GM Intake temp sensor Known good coolant temp sensor that you can calibrate to. Many use a GM sensor that there's solid calibration figures for, but you can also use the nissan one. MS ECU Relay board makes wiring easy and/or MS pre made wiring harness is nice too. Wideband controller wideband sensor Laptop (netbooks make great tuning laptops as the battery lasts good and long) It can get expensive, but like I said, really evaluate what you really need for your goals. Don't go spend $300 on a FPR, or $600 on 800cc injectors... Think system, make it all match for what your goals are. It really helps keep your head on straight and not go over budget.

Apparently Stony needs to stick to RBs... And actually, the Wankel operates more like a two stroke, especially if you consider the fact it needs oil mixed into the fuel for chamber lubrication, just like most 2 strokes. Where the whole things comes crashing down in comparisons between typical 4 stroke piston engines and the wankel is that the wankel is internally geared down in how the rotor spins the "crank". It's geared 3:1, so for every one rotation of the rotor you have three rotations of crank (eccentric shaft, but using the term crank for us piston heads). Mazda could have geared this anyway they wanted, and if it were 1:1 we wouldn't think of the 13B/renesis as a "high revving motor" like we do. Mazda could have also geared it 5:1 and we'd be looking at their 1.3 liter as the most torque less motor in the world as you'd have to wind it up to 3k to get it off the line in 1st. So if you wanted to get really picky, the motors should be calculated per each rotor surface, but then most aspects of the motor wouldn't "add up" to specs that make any sense. This is just because they really are apples to oranges.

On the Z32 you silly.

But don't forget that a E-85 setup can run petroleum based gasoline just fine, while vice versa isn't always true. If you're using a programmable EFI setup, then you just run two different maps, one for E85, one for gasoline. Or do you the real trick setup and get the E85 mixture sensor from a GM vehicle and use it as a overall mixture modifier in megasquirt so the engine auto-balances to an extent. The point is to get it running without ping on cheap pump gas, then when you want more power you can fill up on E85 and pick up an extra 30+hp Remember, most cars that suggest premium fuel today will run on 87 just fine, but will make less power. This is the same detonation limitation you'd be looking at with 11:1 compression on the stock cam. As Mack is attesting to, it'll can be done on 93 octane, but i'm sure the engine becomes a very good gas quality tester. There's many solutions to the detonation problem, and E85 is just one idea. I personally don't think it's the BEST option for most people, but I feel it's an often overlooked idea.

I realize, I'm just saying that there's better sounding L motors out there imo.

And it sounds like he was only revving to maybe 7k. I personally prefer the video of of brian's 3.1 that he has in his silver car, or Monzter's 2.4L. Both are awesome videos of what a L motor can sound like, one being a large displacement carb'ed engine with a loppy cam revving to 8k, and a small displacement motor running EFI.

Why was there so much debate/conflict in this thread? Nissan transmissions hardly EVER changed much. Nissan did a lot of good work to reuse as much as they could as long as they could. Think about it, we can convert a Z32 trans to a L motor without much serious work involved, why? Because nissan refused to change some of the basic building blocks. MOST A and B series transmissions (which covers nearly ALL of the datsun years in the USA) can be swapped without much fuss. Worse case scenario you're swapping bell housings and/or getting your driveshaft length changed. But you can almost guarantee the input shaft will mate up, and that the distance will mate up correctly when the right bell housing is used and the clutch will work fine when the right throwout bearing is used for a given bell housing... Not that complicated... In the end, I'm glad you got a running replacement working garretthes. So how was the fitment?

I concur. I personally feel that the later ZX trans is the best that ever went behind a L motor. 1st can be a little useless if you're running 4.10 or higher with lots of power, but overall the spread is really nice and even. The RPM drops are wonderfully systematic and really doesn't leave much to be desired as far as transmission ratios. And for the record, my personal preference is that I really like these trans with a diff in the 3.5 range if you're running a turbo motor. The stock 3.9 they were common with is wonderful for NA application. And the upside is that I usually see one in the junkyard every time I'm there. Quite common right now as these cars are nearing the end of their consumer life span and progressing into a mostly hobbyist phase. Heck, I got my last S130 for free, pair $500 for another, and regularly find them on craigs for under $1500 in solid shape. Talk about cheap parts donors...

Well, to "do it over again" you have to have done it before right? MY big mistake was assuming CA laws wouldn't change, and proceeded to own a succession of S130's thinking they would become smog exempt. if I did it again, I'd have either only ever touched S30's, or gotten into another chassis. Another big thing is that I would have spent more money on tools, not fancy new parts before I realized how much better off I was shopping at junkyards. (example: went through 3 store bought alternators while junkyard alternators never seemed to ever fail...)

And since we're jacking this thread, one of the coolest aspects (I think) of peak torque for a given engine is that it doesn't really require the most amazing head. You can usually reach 80+ torque per liter if you have a well matched system to the head you have, and tune it all for the RPM at which those heads do their best work. There's plenty of pushrod V8's that show this wonderfully, where it doesn't take much to get a well put together 302 ford to put out 400+ ft lbs on the engine dyno. Now getting the torque to peak like that at 8k and beyond, that's a whole nother matter...

Yea I'm downtown too, just one block off main st towards the high school. I've been here a year and a half and I really like it. I'm originally from Richmond from the bay area, then Benicia for a short while, and now Vacaville.

Neither, since I don't make 100k+ a year yet. I'll stick to my el-cheapo projects for now. Did I mention to anyone yet I'm about to be given ANOTHER free car? '66 250SL this time.

I like how you don't disagree with me, just pick at what I said. We're so just a bunch of kids with legos.

I'm not sure I'd ever buy a first model year of any car. Ouch. I'm also not a fan of buying a NEW car unless you can pay cash and know that you're purchasing it for the sake of owning something that hasn't been touched yet. I'm not a huge fan of the Focus, but the SVT focus is hard to argue with as a well-rounded commuter. MPG could be better, fit and trim could leaves you desiring more, but the fun factor is high and it's extremely well balanced. The newer fiestas show promise, and I'll be interested to see how they do as the years pass. Hondas can be pretty meh, but a civic EG hatch can be very hard to argue with when done right. 40+mpg while still having a buzzy 175hp that revs to 8k can be very addictive. Very average looks, but at least you know most of the parts will last absolutely forever. A car I LOVE to hate, but in reality has some good aspects, is the scion xB. If you have lots of crap to haul, it's a great little box. The low deck makes it easy to throw crap into and get stuff out of, and the engine isn't really all that terrible for being marginal on paper. Going back to some newer cars, the new Juke has my interests peaked in a strange sort of way. I like that it has a AWD option, but I'm not sure I truly like ANY of the transmission options from a reliability stand point. Time will tell. But it strikes a wonderful balance of having space, not looking like a spec of a car, but still being fairly small. It's called a "crossover" but it's got as low, if not lower sight line than a honda accord. On another note, I feel the Mini Cooper is the modern day CRX. The cooper S can be had for a good price these days, and the turbo'ed models have tons of potential and still get pretty good gas mileage. Not the most practical when it comes to filling with crap, but I know first hand of a family that drives from the bay area to utah twice a year with two adults, a early teen daughter, a dog, and plenty of luggage. How they do it in a mini, I don't know, but it's possible. It's not one of the newer stretched minis either, but the older generic coupe mini with the horizontally hinged hatch. You could also do something unique, instead of common and some would say boring. Get a datsun wagon, and throw in a SR20DET and get 30mpg while having a fun little ride. Could also do a CA18DET since they're a tad cheaper and might get a few points better MPG.

Funny, even 10-15k and I'd be scratching my head, but maybe that's just me. This car does NOT look like a 30k vehicle. As John mentioned there's torn seat, but then there's other stuff like poorly aligned panels, chrome trim that's not aligned at all, and what's with the strange red rugs? What's under them I wonder, and even minor rust issues for 33k? I've seen R33's go for $33k, seems like much less of a waste of money than this... Having said all that, it's a cool car and I hope it finds a good home.

There's a 360 that's a FE block, which many consider a "big block" as that was the same block as the iconic 427 in the mustangs. But the much more common motor, that the OP might have been referring to is the 460, which came in most F250 trucks and E2/350 vans. They can be found in just about any junkyard any day of the week. They can be bored and stroked up to 545ci. There's also well priced aftermarket aluminum heads and intakes too. Cranks, rods, and piston options are all reasonable too, but what can kill you building these things is all of the little things. All in all, it's cheaper to build up a windsor motor displacement for displacement. The upside is that you get so much more displacement at the buy in price, and you get better rod-stroke ratios from the taller deck. I'd rather have a mild 429FE than a 427windsor myself, unless space or weight was really that huge of a concern. I've thought for years about building a FE for my Z, but I just don't think it's a great idea. They will produce over 300lbs of torque off idle, and doesn't take much to get them to produce over 400lbs. I've seen guys with 550+ ci getting over 700 ft on engine dynos. That's a lot of torque for a car as small as the Z, especially considering practical tire size limitations. Maybe down the road I'll put one in a Jag, or maybe a cougar.

I started reading this thread and though "okay, where's mack when you need him?" and there he is! Just run flat tops + the MN47. Throw in a nice and aggressive cam. Run carbs or aftermarket EFI, just be warned that with carbs and a high duration and overlap cam that it'll idle quite a bit rougher/sporadic than with a programmable EFI setup. Also don't forget that you could also convert to E85 and run the stock cam just fine. E85 is much easier to find than race fuel, and works better in some ways in my experience. It just means you need to full re-do the fuel system, which same would be the case if you were converting to EFI from carbs. Make sure to use all alcohol rated components if you do. Don't pay for the "E85" tax that some part suppliers want to charge. Alcohol has been used as fuel since at least the 60's, if not much sooner, and those parts are cheap and readily available and will run E85 just fine.

Torque will ALWAYS be directly tied to displacement in NA applications. F1 motors can make 1000+hp from 3 liters, yet their torque isn't as amazing of a figure. For example, the 2006 Toyota RVX-06 Forumula 1 engine was reported to produce 202 ft lbs of torque, while making 740HP. To a racer, peak torque figures are rarely a huge concern. Torque curve IS. I'd readily sacrifice the extra difference between the OS head and the 3 liter John just mentioned, if the engine makes that torque for a wider RPM range. That said I'm sure the OS head will make plenty of broad torque, I'm just saying in general a nice fat torque curve is more important than a blip on the dyno plot if you're concerned about lap times.

Correction in bold. Pretty much all racing bodies call it a 2.6 liter, as that's the actual displacement that is displaced during 720 desgrees of rotation. If you're comparing the rotary to a 2 stroke, then yes, you can call it a 1.3 liter, but then it still starts to look like an only "average" HP per liter motor, which it generally is.

Tony's advice is #1 on my list. Pulling the rotor is fast and does the job better than any noise maker could ever do. Most loud attachments are defeated within 30 seconds. Removing a part required is certainly much more effective. They might always just tow it away, but that so much less common it's not really a concern to me personally. Me personally though, I do something that takes less time than the rotor and is easier for me personally. I pull the ECU. I don't run kick panels or much interior anyways (carpet, dash, seats is all) so I just reach down, pull the ECU out, and walk away. It's a bit bulky to walk around the mall with, but carry a backpack like most of us should for all our crap, and the problem is solved! I've even worked in neighborhoods that I've pulled the ECU while working on a job for 3 hours. You just never know sometimes.