Gollum

Do you have the wheel HP numbers for the 8psi run? I'd like to see that sheet as well to compare power curves. Definately some nice numbers considering it's a pretty common setup seen among people. What spark sysem are you controlling with megasquirt?

A 4.0 liter inline 4 will be massively heavy and huge, especially with a cast iron head. Check the length to make sure there's room in the engine bay without moving the radiator to the front of the core support.

Yea, though I really liked this design/render, a lot of work would have to be done to rework the front end to make it aerodynamic. In reality I think a production modern 240Z would have to look more like a 280Z. You have to add a leading edge farther forward than the hood, so it needs a bumper. Here's an example. Check out the hood line in relation to the bumper on the origonal 65' mustang. And now look on the new mustangs how the extended the lower bumper farther out and tucked in the hood and headlights a bit more. The new mustang is a great example of making a retro car. It looks so similar to the origonal it's scary, yet it's not just the origonal modernized, it's a completely reworked aerodynamic machine. The Ford GT was the same way. You could park the origonal GT40 next to the GT and your eye didn't pick up the differences, but the windtunnel data shows a completely different story. The origonal was scary to drive at high speeds, and the new GT pumps out plenty of downforce. I'm sure it's possible to make a modern 240Z work, but this concept in this thread sadly isn't it. As capt furious put it, it's a S30 that's been made to look modern.

Yes, the sea foam stuff would be a great option to clean out the engine. Just make sure to put plenty of miles on the car afterwards as that stuff can take a while to get out.

Wow... Just plain wow. I hope all goes well with getting your car back man. We should hook up before you move to san leandro, though I'm down that way now and then to visit my sister. I really hope nothing like this happens to my car while parked in vallejo.

No... He's right. 10.5:1, used for general max HP is richer than what you run on the highway, 15:1. Ethanol's stoich is 9:1, so you mix 10% of that with gasoline and now stoich becomes 14.13:1 First number is air, second is fuel. Less air means richer.

CAT's DO affect NOx, but they weren't designed to. In fact when studying the subject with a SMOG REF the group concluded that there's in fact zero reason a cat should ever reduce NOX emissions, but in testing cars with and without it obviously does. So it's a side effect of cleaning the air that it happens to lower NOx. NOx. or NO on the test, is combustion heat. A high compression motor will fail on this easily. Majority of the time when cars are failing from NOx it's due to carbon build up in the chambers. Best thing I could recommend would be to run the tank nearly dry and then put about $15 worth of fuel injector cleaner in the tank. Then proceed to drive hard on the engine for an extended period of time. You want that engine to get hot and burn as much crap as possible off the inside, and the fuel you just added almost guarantees no knock issues. Anyone know any safe ways to clean the chamber out without removing the head? Maybe pouring something into the spark plug hole? Doesn't sound safe, but maybe someone's got some experience in this regard.

I remember seeing your modifications, and I remember them looking pretty good. (I've been going through that thread again, toying with ideas of doing my own air box) Thanks for the input regarding the hood flutter. So this to me suggests that most of the air in the engine bay IS just comming from the core support, and quite a bit of lift is being created from all the air trying to get through. But back to the topic that got us talking about air boxes, belly pans. Heatraver had been told that S130 cars are "bottom breathers" and that closing off the bottom would be a bad idea. Personally I don't see why this would be a problem. Even if you made a belly pan that went all the way to the firewall you'd still have air able to escape through the transmission tunnel. Engines are cooled by radiators, not air. As long as air keeps flowing through the radiator you're fine.

That's awesome. What'd I get? A lovely card for my dad. I'm not quite there yet myself.

At any rate right now the car pulls just fine bellow 1k. And I don't think you end up loosing HP in the long run, just torque. HP is just an equasion of torque and RPM. If you gear to have more torque you loose RPM. If you gear for more RPM you loose torque, but the overall work done is the same. That said, it WILL feel less powerful no doubt.

I've heard nothing but bad things about the happening (from people I trust, not just reviews from critics). Real let down as I was looking forward to it.

Complete bunk. Higher octane doesn't kill engines. Injector cleaner is basically an octane booster. Guys use it all the time with no issues. The issue here has been well covered. Methanol, and ethanol (so basically all alcohol fuels) have a lower air/fuel ratio requirement. Just go look at the threads about meth injection floating all around the board. You can't run 10.5:1 and expect safe power. If you were running 100% meth it'd be much MUCH lower, though I'm not sure what (around 7:1 iirc, though i'm really not sure). So what's happening is the fuel just knocks much sooner because the computer is adding fuel based off of fuel tables designed for gasoline. If the ECU was adding the right amout of fuel (amounts that would CHOKE your engine using pure gasoline) then you'd have LESS knock, and would see the effect of the higher octane. Some cars are compensating for the fuel by using O2 readings, but really the ECU is acting as though the O2 sensors are reading off. Few cars will make the corrections proporely as they keep adding ethanol to our gasoline. In reality cars SHOULD be taken to the factory and retuned. Who's gonna pay for it isn't part of my post though, that's just the reality. Cars need to be retuned. Carb'ed guys have it lucky. They can just adjust the carbs. Thier equipment will work just fine. Guys like me with OLD efi have it the worst imo. Who's gonna be able to retune our ECUs? Nobody. We'll be stuck being forced to use an aftermarket EFI system, or moving to a newer OEM EFI. The really tough part about this is that technically it's illegaly to modify your air/fuel ratio. That's what the CARB certification is about. Anything that modifies air or fuel flow in the intake or exhaust needs to be approved. So things like injector swaps, megasquirt, intakes, headers are all illegal unless approved. This means retuning your ECU is illegal to, which is a step that's going to be required as they keep adding ethanol. Look on the bright side if you can though. People like garrett might not need to use meth injection in 5 years if they keep adding ethanol at this rate.

If you added side fender vents like the SDI car in the testing, and had hood vents, I don't think blocking off the bottom of the engine bay is a problem. Study the test data and don't take it all for face value, and really think about WHY the numbers are what they are. The front always experienced more lift than the rear. The test that it was the lowest in all had a patter... The front was blocked off. Now, why would the air going into the front of the car be creating lift? Solve that mystery and you can start designing around the solution. Personally I don't know excatly why, and I'm sure other people's guesses are better than mine, but I'll share what I've concluded on my own. #1 reason I think we're seeing such huge lift from the front openings is that the openings are behind the leading edge of the front. So what you end up with is a huge ball of air that can't get over the hood and only has one place to go, down. This force of going downwards creates lift. #2 reason, I think is that the openings let more air under the car to begin with, and the undercarriage isn't well suited to having air down there. Notice how just minor taping on the tests had quite beneficial results. So I think one of the main questions to answer is "where is the air in the front pushing up? Before the core support? Or after? I really want to say before, because that makes sense seeing as air can only pass through the radiator around 15mph, so the blockage is there and air can't get past. But we've all see videos or experienced it in person, that a fiberglass hood will bend in the middle and let air out, showing that there's huge amounts of air in the engine bay trying to come UP. Will these problems dissapear when the front core support is completely sealed up so air can only get by via the radiator? Will creating a box so the opening air can only flow to and throuth the radiator have the same effect? Many of these things I'm not sure of at all, and they're questions for a reason. But I really think if you figure out how to route the air comming in, and not let any excess air through the front end, you can do whatever you want practically with blocking off the belly, just as long as the air can get out via hood vents or other vents.

When I was riding with chris I noticed that even when he's "driving like a 20 year old around town" he's still dipping bellow 1k when shifting... The engine has plenty of torque to be able to cruise at 1500 on the freeway no problem. And you'd talked about RPM at 65mph, but as you've stated most of your highway travel is a bit faster. I think 2.73 might even be leaving some RPM on the table honestly. I think you'll be fine under load conditions like high wind or going up a hill.

The work looks great! I'm getting more and more excited for you and this project every day man. Keep posting!

Well that's because it's not a 1.3. There's only one company that considers the 13B a 1.3 liter, Mazda. Do you think SCCA an all other racing circuits are stupid? The heads of these orgnaizations are engineers that have their own history in racing and can build a car themselves from the ground up. They know how to build engines and even engineer engines, they're not stupid people. The 13B has 6 combustions per cylce, mazda counts 2... See a problem here? Some say "well rotory motors are just efficient like that!" Well, ok, let's get to the meat of the issue. A single rotor has THREE sides, that's THREE combustion chambers, therefor with two rotors you have SIX chambers and now it's a 6 cylinder, not a 2. And in this sense you could call it a 6 cylinder that operates slower than it should and it unefficient because it only gets 4 off in a normal 720 degree cycle. The rotory motor needs 900 degrees to come back to "TDC" in a sense, or to burn every chamber once. Mazda counts the displacement twice because that's better for taxes in japan. One could also say it's because after one rotation of the engine, (one rotation of the driveshaft in 4th gear at 1:1 ratio) the engine has created 2 power strokes, and then the engine repeates itself so it should only be counted twice... But a regular 4 cylinder will only fire twice in one rotation so should we only count 2 cylinders? Call the 13B what it really is, a 2.6 liter that makes squat for power naturally aspirated, and it's RIGHT IN LINE with power per cubic inch with other semi-performance motors. It even gets comparable gas milage to some other high strung mid 2 liter engines, so where's the advantage? It doesn't make extra HP for it's displacement (oh, you can get a 2 liter 4 cylinder up over 1000hp... much more common than 1000hp 13B motors...), it doesn't get better gas milage for it's displacement. It's only advantage is it's size, and then weight. Even the weight isn't increadible. A formula 1 engine is far lighter with 3.0 liters of displacement and makes much, much, MUCH more HP. It's not that mazda is the only company to "master" a rotory engine. Nobody just wants to deal with the headache. And in all honesty, if mazda can't figure out how to get the engine to not burn oil, they don't have a future in production cars sadly. ================================= Now that I've said all that. I do appreciate rotory motors and like them for what they are. They're a neat engine that I think is a cool swap into many cars, but too many people hate or love them for all the wrong reasons.

Dan answered you pretty well, but I'd never thought of that! Funny, I'd only ever thought about an electric motor sitting in the trans tunnel, never rotory. I know the tunnel isn't big enough, so you'd need to make a custom tunnel, but I think it'd be doable with stock width seating. Access to things like the spark plugs would be a chore though, unless you made the new tunnel with an access panel. Would make for one clean engine bay. Storage space anyone?

Though they'd "look" better with a slightly rolled lip, I don't think there's a clearence issue. I jumped on the bumpers and there's was enough camber gain to get the tire inside the lip. I'd only be worried about possible rubbing if the car was supper low (like more than 2" lower than stock). Front tires were 255, rears were 275. If you just got the 9" rims all the way around they'd look perfectly balanced. I'm still kinda amazed, because the stock rims and tires seemed to fill the same space pretty well and didn't seem like they left a lot of room for wider tires... If someone made an aftermarket lower control arm for these cars, you could gain quite a bit of clearence there. I could fit my entire fist between the tire and the strut, but there was about 2 fingers of gap between the tire and the control arm. I have no doubt that with the right offset you could fit 275 with zero possible problems, but I'd guess that with a custom control arm 305 might fit under the stock wheel well, and with a stock shock at that.

Should sent me a PM or something, being in the bay area and all. I'm always up for giving hybridz members a ride and chilling for a while.

Displaimer: This post is only based off of what I've seen, not experienced. I've been working on building a database of dyno charts and I've gone through literally hundreds of dyno charts and I've become, to some degree, versed in knowing what kind of power curves to expect from motors based solely on displacement, block, and head design. I'm in no ways saying I know everything or trying to prove anyone wrong. If someone wants to correct me, feel free. I really wish I could find a dyno for the 4.0L cologne motor. You're right JohnC about the rise and fall of torque, but as I'm sure you're aware, peak torque isn't always placed right in the middle of the torque curve. An engine's torque band might start much lower than it actually peaks, due to having such a soft peak, which is quite typical of 2 valve pushrod engines. My point is that there's no way to tell where the torque curve STARTS just by knowing the RPM of the peak. Maybe if you know the cam specs, valve size, bore, stroke, header flow, and intake flow you could calculate the curve. But just by guessing... that's a super low PEAK number, which would make me guess that the curve probably starts to ramp up at around 1,000 rpm or so, and you probably have 80% of your torque by at least 1,400. Most high torque, low power engines like these have at least a 80% of it's torque for a good solid 3k RPM. I think weather or not you see a significant difference in mileage will depend on how well the ECU keeps the mixtures lean at highway speeds still. But in that regard I think your engine will manage just fine.

That looks pretty good. I can see lots of Supra TRD influence in his design. He needs a JGTC wing and some bigger rims though. He should leave the kit unpainted, it looks hawt like that. ON SNAP!!! Stupidity is contageous!

Yea, in most cases where you're only worried about HC and CO you have to be running pretty rich or lean to fail. As long as the engine is running strong, doesn't have insane mileage resulting in carbon build up, you should be ok.

I think you've probably got the idea of what I'm talking about. To help (since nobody seems to want to post on the topic) I've drawn an image to give people an idea of what I'm talking about. Just a short screen to act as a spoiler, to help imitate the effect of a raked spoiler, making the transition from the hood survice to the roof of the car smoother. The Z has lots of room for this in the cowl area, just means you probably won't get a ton of air in your heat/ac system. Oh yea, I've always admired your chop. I've always thought it looks well done. If I ever chopped a Z myself I probably would move the front edge forward like the primodonaZ, as well as a small chop.

I've also seen/heard him relate the sound of an inline 6 to his username. It must be allcaps because he's yelling... Do you have anger problems BRAAP? Because it sounds like it from my monitor.

I think it'll help if you think about it and discern the difference between database and forum. You should know these concepts well considering your field and you're a bright man. Hybridz is based on the framework of a forum, and it works for what it's intended. But they're got such a catalog of information it can be hard to find what you're looking for. The zcarpartsindex page is designed around a database design, so that information is readily availble. There's a much lower likelyhood of attracting people that just want to "chat" or are casual car people trying to contribute information. Because there's no use for it other than just sharing information, we should attract the right type of people and hopefully information will be pretty accurate. We don't have to worry about people posted 100 pages on what solid rear axle they need in their Z so they don't break "the weak IRS"... We only need a single page on the topic and it's done. It's closed for life. The only time it needs to be changed is if information keeps continuing, information is wrong, or someone has some insight to add. It WILL need to be closely moderated, and I can tell you right now that some of the info I put on the L engine page is wrong, but I'm waiting for someone who knows more than me to come and correct it. But that's the beauty of this, is that it's organic and can be searched easily and sorted cleanly. No matter how well we learn to search hybridZ, it's just not a catalog of information like we want it to be. Does that mean hybridZ won't have a purpose? That's not the case at all. This place should still continue doing what it does best, bringing smart intellectual people together to share ideas and projects so that we might all learn from them.