GrtRat1 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Your biggest issue (and its a big one) is steering lock. There's not enough to make a good drift car. Are you talking about too many steering wheel rotations? My buddy races dirt cars and they use what is called a steering quickener.. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Howe-21-Steering-Quickener-Heavy-Duty,7732.html?parentDisplayId=8280 Edited July 23, 2011 by GrtRat1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4runnerguy Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Keep on goin man I plan on doing the same. But I'm making mine do time attack as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Are you talking about too many steering wheel rotations? My buddy races dirt cars and they use what is called a steering quickener.. He's talking about the angle that the wheel turns at. On a Z you have 36 degrees on the inside wheel and 33 on the outside wheel at full lock. Any farther an the tire will likely hit suspension pieces. Edited July 23, 2011 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernS30 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 You don't know much about drifting if you don't know about lock angle. Which is one of the most important parts of drifting because angle is supposed to be everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrtRat1 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Nope... I dont know **** about drifting.. Other than you better have alot of tires on hand.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two80z4me Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 This could be interesting... I've drifted my Z on pavement for a little while, nothing competitive because only about 6 times out of 10 your going to get a clean pretty drift. Because of said angle lock its kind of a P.I.T.A... In order to build a turbo motor, I reference people to corky bells book. In order to build a drift car, I reference people to the internet... back in highschool my senior project was on drifting, and since doing that I've learned alot to help not just my driving but how to set up the car. I suggest you do the same. I support your journey, regardless of dumb luck and money, or the ability to learn.... Good luck! It'll be nice to see another joining the few of us who drift S30's. (PS, be prepared to have your neck take a beating, this isn't your buddies S13 or FD) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllBoost Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 Well I really want this setup to work so im prepared to do what I need to to make it slide. Is there any way I could make some cuts in the cross-member and then weld some new steel in the shape need to clear the tie rod? I presume if there was enough room on the inside I could put some reinforcement on the inside with triangulated pieces of steel. What other knuckles do you think would have a chance at being mounted on the s30 A-Arms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two80z4me Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Well I really want this setup to work so im prepared to do what I need to to make it slide. Is there any way I could make some cuts in the cross-member and then weld some new steel in the shape need to clear the tie rod? I presume if there was enough room on the inside I could put some reinforcement on the inside with triangulated pieces of steel. What other knuckles do you think would have a chance at being mounted on the s30 A-Arms? I'd check out technotoytuning.com , drifting is their thing and their parts are top notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 what Engine were you planning on using? You'd said you wanted to mount it low but didn't identify it. (Or I missed it) As for the arms, Check out the Power steering threads. They talk about what racks you can use, (subi, Volvo, Miata etc) where is stands to reason you could concievably swap those other ends as well. Outters and inners. You'll have to play with it to see what you come up with. Another possibility is to swap in S13 suspension like in the Karotta VQ S30... flipped RHD S13 rack for front mounting. here's the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 If you really want to do this "right" then you'll end up tube framing the whole front end of the car and ditching the stock suspension design all together. Adding a steering rack with more max turning angle (shorter turning radius) doesn't get you ANYTHING since you'll just end up with rubbing issues. Even if the tie rods are moved a much as possible, which won't be a ton, you still have the frame to contend with as well, which is just as much of an issue. You really want to convert to a double wishbone or SLA type setup. This will not only get you much more control over inherent camber gain, kingpin angle, caster, etc. You might end up with a car that drives like crap on the street, but is awesome when it comes to wide slide angle control. IF you wanted to go this route the "easy" way (which is obviously relative) and keep part engineering as simple as possible, buy a donor car like a miata and design the front tube frame around it's mount points to match it's geometry. You'll need to pick a vehicle with roughly the same track width though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllBoost Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 You guys do have some good points. We will have to see what i end up with. Im thinking a frame knotch might be on of the most simple routes. I like the idea of cutting out the Datsun strut towers, swapping them out for the s13s, putting a set of s13 a-arms that are adjustable with camber and caster, s13 knuckles, and utilizing my wilwood brakes that are in the same hub size and pattern as a s13 if i am thinking correctly. 4x114.3 I believe is whats correct? Cause i can always add bracing in the frame and triangulate it to make it stronger. I planned on adding some square tubing around the car to stiffen up the chassis and try to keep chassis flex in check with the big motor and the car always sliding sideways. Anyway to make it stiff i feel would help. I think these would help with some other things to give me the steering lock i want. http://technotoytuning.com/productdetail.php?p=846. Correct me if im wrong by take the entire hub assembly and putting it farther away from the body i would gain some lock as long as i could get the tie-rod/frame clearance im looking for. I really need to get this car up on jackstands and start tears apart the front end to get a better idea of exactly what this all looks like in real life and maybe i can ask some better questions for some more feedback from you guys. Thank you and keep the info coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The problem is the tension compression (TC) rod. It connects to the inner ball joint bolt holes, so even if you lengthen the control arm, you don't get it away from the TC rod. Gollum has the right answer, SLA would fix the problem, as would a 944 or RX7 style control arm that is shaped like an L. Ours, if you look at the control arm and the TC rod, essentially is shaped like a right triangle. Once you got the control arm issue out of the way then you'd need some modifications on the rack to give it more throw. You can probably find a rack out of a different car that has more than 5" of stroke like the Z has, or you could make a shorter steer knuckle (the shorter you go, the harder it will be to steer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllBoost Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 The problem is the tension compression (TC) rod. It connects to the inner ball joint bolt holes, so even if you lengthen the control arm, you don't get it away from the TC rod. Gollum has the right answer, SLA would fix the problem, as would a 944 or RX7 style control arm that is shaped like an L. Ours, if you look at the control arm and the TC rod, essentially is shaped like a right triangle. Once you got the control arm issue out of the way then you'd need some modifications on the rack to give it more throw. You can probably find a rack out of a different car that has more than 5" of stroke like the Z has, or you could make a shorter steer knuckle (the shorter you go, the harder it will be to steer). I just looked at some pictures and am now understanding why my idea wont work. That TC rod is right in the way of that tire. It might be worth trying to make some room for a custom TC rod that has more of an L-shape in order to move the TC rod a little closer to the body and free up some room for that tire to come back in towards the body. Heres a picture of what i believe you are explaining to me. 2nd one in this thread. http://st162.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3653 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) That's it right there. Here's the kind of control arm you could adapt in to fix: http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/WC/120-01117160.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_term=1985-1986+Porsche+944+Control+Arm+OES+Genuine+Front+Left+Lower+85-86+Porsche+Control+Arm&utm_content=YN&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base 944, RX7, and I think BMW 3 series all uses this kind of setup (and probably a LOT of others too) A bent TC rod would work, but a bent TC rod would be weaker than a straight one, so you'd want to oversize the material and make sure that you upgrade the fasteners on the control arm side, and you couldn't use a turnbuckle to adjust caster unless the turnbuckle was a real small one at the back end. Edited July 27, 2011 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) The problem with just using a bent (by design) TC rod is that the mount point and angle doesn't change. You'd still need to cut off the old tie in and weld in a new one at a different angle, and most likely closer to the LCA. In order to keep the mounting points stockish on both sides, the TC rod would haveto have two bends in it, in order to get the plane back to where it would have been stock. It'd be more like: --\_/- If it's like: --\___ Then you've completely moved where the rod ends up, and if you bend it in such a way that it makes it back to the original hole then the angle is all fubar. Adapting some of those nice 944 LCA's fixes the issue entirely. Though I personally don't think that's a "full proof" fix to your issues. You'd still be battling limited camber gain and other suspension limitations. But it'd definitely be the cheapest solution to get you on the right track. (haha, get it?) EDIT: Oh, and I would never pay $400+ for LCA's I'd have to do custom fab work for in order to make work. You can find virtually identical LCAs in a PLETHORA of cars in the junkyard. In fact I was just working on my wife's accord and it's very similar up front. Edited July 27, 2011 by Gollum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The E36 BMW LCA would work the best. I've measured and seriously thought about installing the whole front suspension from he E36 into the S30. I even have the parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllBoost Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 WOW. That e36 lca and tc rod would be perfect. Its close enough to the design i need and with little modification i feel it would work well. What knuckles would you guys recommend using with that setup? Any chance of modifying the s30s or would i just have to sack up and get some e36 ones and run their hubs and such? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverdone Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I've got an M3 cross member sittin around my house and the front suspension off mi carro. I'll see if it even comes close to looking like it'll fit. If it's not close, the E30 may be a bit narrower and has a real simillar suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45161 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverdone Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 AHHHHHH! So cool! So, I really suck at suspension, what are the problems he's having? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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