M Coupe or S2000?

[Leon]

I've been casually looking for a new-to-me daily driver for some time now, doing research and trying to decide on what I want. Essentially, I'm looking for a new daily driver that is fun (can toss around in an occasional autocross and weekend drives), is okay on gas (high 20s, if not 30mpg on highway commutes), is easy on the eyes and within an upper limit of $15k or so. Clearly, this will be a used car.

 

I've been eying the S2000 for years and have had multiple chances to drive both AP1 and AP2 models. I've immensely enjoyed driving them, everything from the suspension, to the transmission, clutch, interior and engine just feels right! I don't mind the powerband, my DD for the last 6 years has been a (Canadian!) '01 Accord Coupe. Yes, my speedo is in kph , I tend to get a lot of "Slow down! Why are you driving so fast!". The Accord gets 30-33 mpg in my long commutes (100mi/day) so gas mileage is of some concern. If I stay out of it, I know the S2000 can get 30mpg.

 

I fit snugly but comfortably in the S, although I don't think I'd fit if I was any bigger (6'2", 190lb). I think they are great looking cars to boot, simple and to the point with nice, clean lines. Plus, there are no headroom concerns for the days I plan to autocross since I could just drop the top. Fitting with a helmet on is tough for me in non-convertibles.

 

For a long time, I was dead-set on the S2000 being my next DD, but recently I thought I should at least cross-shop so I can be absolutely sure of what I want. Anyway, it gives me an excuse to research other cars and go on test drives!

 

I've considered the E36 and E46 M3, C5 Z06 'Vette, and even a Porsche Boxster. The Boxster impressed me, but I'd rather not maintain a Porsche and I'm not a huge fan of the looks. The Z06 has staggering performance for the price (although it is somewhat over budget), but I just don't see myself driving a Corvette and the interior is kind of cheap. This is going to be a daily driver that I enjoy commuting in after all. The M3 is nice and was in strong consideration until I thought, why not an M Coupe!

 

I love the looks of the Coupe and it shares the great M3 drivetrain. Being lighter and stiffer than an M3, I see it as the ultimate M-car. I haven't had a chance to drive, or even sit in one but I've been puddling drool over them recently. My concerns about the M Coupe is that they're older, more expensive to maintain, and some had issues of sheet metal spot welds coming undone at the rear subframe supports. Apparently, it's not too common, but it's something to think about. They are also harder to come by than the others on the list (especially since I want one without a sunroof), and therefore carry a premium on price over an M3.

 

What do you guys think? Anyone with direct experience on driving and maintaining these cars (mainly S2000 or M Coupe) would be awesome! Hope everyone enjoys Thanksgiving!

[clutchdust]

OK, between the two you mentioned, I personally would go with the S2K. I don't have any experience with the Bimmer, but I understand maintenance is a nightmare. Take that for what it's worth.

Having said all that, if you can find the Z06, it's the performance bargain of the century. I own a '01 convertible and the thing is just stupid as to how fast it is and how cheap, relatively speaking. I can do all my own maintenance and most repairs in my garage. And it's a Chevy. That may be a negative to a lot of people but here's the thing I look at. You can drive that thing across country and know that you have a shop or dealership within 30 miles that can take care of just about any problem you have. Might not be able to say the same thing about the Honda and no way you can say that about the Bimmer.

When I sold my business a few years back I actually considered buying a used Ferrari (never really sold the business for enough to do that). But the maintenance cost and that range issue steered me away from it. In my life, I have actually had to worry about finding parts to fix a car while driving through Gore, OK. Chevy, no problem, imported Euro trash, not so much.

[pat1]

I would pick the s2000 over the BMW any day. I bought my wife a BMW e46 a few years ago and it was a nightmare. I work on cars for a living and still it was a pain. Broken window regulator, coolant leaks. Oil leaks and all sorts off lights came on . It was a piece of crap and it didn't even have a lot of miles (71k miles)on it. It was a very good looking car . In 14 months I had over 3k in repairs and I did the labor. The last draw was when my wife came home and told me the trans was slipping and we traded it in. I lost over 7500.00 on that German piece of crap. Get a jap car and enjoy.

[h4nsm0l3m4n]

Here is what you do

1. Buy any LS powered vehicle.

2. Daily drive it while you restore the Z chassis.

3. Swap LS motor into Z and part out or scrap what you dont use to offset the swap cost.

4. Find a Geo Metro, or some other generic tiny car, to bum around to work in

(I'm on step 4... but I skipped step 1 and 2 )

 

Seriously though, I think youre picking between two great cars. I've seen great examples of both at the local autox with very happy owners. I think individual price and vehicle maintenance/history will be what ultimately decide which exact car you will buy.

Edited November 24, 2011 by h4nsm0l3m4n

[Mikelly]

I'm not a fan of the E46, but I would own any of the E36 varients, which is what I just bought fairly modded for $10K. Love them love them love them. They're lighter, more nimble, and just plain fun to drive. I hated the S2000 I test drove, and there's just no way I'd buy one. The C5 Vette is always a good bet and fun to drive and still knock down 28mpg. I'm getting 26.5 mpg on my M3, for comparison.

 

Mike

[_Donovan_]

This is what you want, and close to you.

 

http://tinyurl.com/7vd7j8b

 

2003 Corvette C5 Z06 50th Anniv. Ed. 6 speed 58,000 miles, Selective Ride Control, for only $19,500. I am sure there is some haggle room as well but a hell of a deal.

 

 

There are plenty of C5's for Around $12,000 though. Much better car than the S2000.

[Michael]

No first-hand experience on the S2000, but a few days ago I drove a Z3 M (that's the convertible version of the M3 Coupe), and had about a week's seat time in a friend's 2001 Corvette (stick-shift, hardtop, but not Z06). My former daily driver (now occasional weekend car) is an E36 M3.

 

The Z3M feels much more nimble airy and purposeful than the "conventional" M3. The M3 is quieter, has higher-quality interior and has the obvious advantage (to some) of a commodious rear seat. But it's just not as lively as the Z3 M.

 

The base-model C5 is remarkably quiet, has impeccable highway manners, and gets superb gas mileage on highway drives in 6th gear (~30 mpg). The torque delivery is very predictable and linear (the BMW S52 engine is lethargic below 2500 rpm, even with properly functioning VANOS). But the steering is numb and the overall feel is that of a muscle car: large, brawny, commanding, but lacking litheness or poise.

 

I would not worry about E36 BMW reliability. It is not outstanding, but repairs are relatively straightforward. That said, spending some time underneath a C5 Corvette for basic maintenance (fluids, belts, etc.), I'm surprised how well-built and competently engineered it is. I still can't figure out why it feels like it's 700 lbs heavier than an M3, while in reality the weight difference is maybe 100 lbs.

 

For pure highway cruising, I would recommend the C5. For overall driver-feel and nimbleness, I recommend the Z3-based M-cars (convertible or hatchback). The M3 sedan or coupe are bargains; moderately-worn examples can be found for under $5000. But it's just not as satisfying to drive as the Z3-M.

[Leon]

OK, between the two you mentioned, I personally would go with the S2K. I don't have any experience with the Bimmer, but I understand maintenance is a nightmare. Take that for what it's worth.

Having said all that, if you can find the Z06, it's the performance bargain of the century. I own a '01 convertible and the thing is just stupid as to how fast it is and how cheap, relatively speaking. I can do all my own maintenance and most repairs in my garage. And it's a Chevy. That may be a negative to a lot of people but here's the thing I look at. You can drive that thing across country and know that you have a shop or dealership within 30 miles that can take care of just about any problem you have. Might not be able to say the same thing about the Honda and no way you can say that about the Bimmer.

When I sold my business a few years back I actually considered buying a used Ferrari (never really sold the business for enough to do that). But the maintenance cost and that range issue steered me away from it. In my life, I have actually had to worry about finding parts to fix a car while driving through Gore, OK. Chevy, no problem, imported Euro trash, not so much.

The 'Vette is definitely a huge performance bargain, although I really need to search hard to try to find one around the $15k range.

 

 

I would pick the s2000 over the BMW any day. I bought my wife a BMW e46 a few years ago and it was a nightmare. I work on cars for a living and still it was a pain. Broken window regulator, coolant leaks. Oil leaks and all sorts off lights came on . It was a piece of crap and it didn't even have a lot of miles (71k miles)on it. It was a very good looking car . In 14 months I had over 3k in repairs and I did the labor. The last draw was when my wife came home and told me the trans was slipping and we traded it in. I lost over 7500.00 on that German piece of crap. Get a jap car and enjoy.

Yeah, I've heard a lot of negatives on E46 maintenance. It's essentially off my list, as I don't want to deal with expensive repairs (like replacing rod bearings on the S54). I read about a guy who upgraded from an E36 to an E46 and made a convincing argument as to why if he were to do it over, the E46 purchase would never happen.

 

 

Here is what you do

1. Buy any LS powered vehicle.

2. Daily drive it while you restore the Z chassis.

3. Swap LS motor into Z and part out or scrap what you dont use to offset the swap cost.

4. Find a Geo Metro, or some other generic tiny car, to bum around to work in

(I'm on step 4... but I skipped step 1 and 2 )

 

Seriously though, I think youre picking between two great cars. I've seen great examples of both at the local autox with very happy owners. I think individual price and vehicle maintenance/history will be what ultimately decide which exact car you will buy.

Good plan!

 

I very much agree with the vehicle history. I'm definitely making sure that my considerations come with service records and that the car is generally well taken care of. With the S2000, this is often not the case...

 

Either one, given it's properly maintained, should be pretty reliable I would think. The markup on BMW parts can get silly, but the E36 chassis is not as expensive as the newer ones.

 

 

I'm not a fan of the E46, but I would own any of the E36 varients, which is what I just bought fairly modded for $10K. Love them love them love them. They're lighter, more nimble, and just plain fun to drive. I hated the S2000 I test drove, and there's just no way I'd buy one. The C5 Vette is always a good bet and fun to drive and still knock down 28mpg. I'm getting 26.5 mpg on my M3, for comparison.

 

Mike

I've enjoyed the S2000s I've driven, but I think I really do need to drive the S2000, M Coupe, and Z06 back-to-back to get a true feel for the differences. When I realized that the Z06 puts down 400hp, 0-60 in ~4 seconds, and still gets 30mpg, there was no way it could not be on my list (as terrible as the interior is)! Thanks for the gas mileage numbers, those very much factor into my decision as I drive over 500 miles per week.

 

 

This is what you want, and close to you.

 

http://tinyurl.com/7vd7j8b

 

2003 Corvette C5 Z06 50th Anniv. Ed. 6 speed 58,000 miles, Selective Ride Control, for only $19,500. I am sure there is some haggle room as well but a hell of a deal.

 

 

There are plenty of C5's for Around $12,000 though. Much better car than the S2000.

I'm not near Georgia, but when I make my decision I don't mind flying out to buy the right car! If I get a Corvette, it will be a Z06 though. I haven't seen any in good shape that are much below $20k, but looks like I should keep looking!

 

 

No first-hand experience on the S2000, but a few days ago I drove a Z3 M (that's the convertible version of the M3 Coupe), and had about a week's seat time in a friend's 2001 Corvette (stick-shift, hardtop, but not Z06). My former daily driver (now occasional weekend car) is an E36 M3.

 

The Z3M feels much more nimble airy and purposeful than the "conventional" M3. The M3 is quieter, has higher-quality interior and has the obvious advantage (to some) of a commodious rear seat. But it's just not as lively as the Z3 M.

 

The base-model C5 is remarkably quiet, has impeccable highway manners, and gets superb gas mileage on highway drives in 6th gear (~30 mpg). The torque delivery is very predictable and linear (the BMW S52 engine is lethargic below 2500 rpm, even with properly functioning VANOS). But the steering is numb and the overall feel is that of a muscle car: large, brawny, commanding, but lacking litheness or poise.

 

I would not worry about E36 BMW reliability. It is not outstanding, but repairs are relatively straightforward. That said, spending some time underneath a C5 Corvette for basic maintenance (fluids, belts, etc.), I'm surprised how well-built and competently engineered it is. I still can't figure out why it feels like it's 700 lbs heavier than an M3, while in reality the weight difference is maybe 100 lbs.

 

For pure highway cruising, I would recommend the C5. For overall driver-feel and nimbleness, I recommend the Z3-based M-cars (convertible or hatchback). The M3 sedan or coupe are bargains; moderately-worn examples can be found for under $5000. But it's just not as satisfying to drive as the Z3-M.

Nice reviews, you paint the picture well! The E36 seems reliable if the proper preventative maintenance is done, my brother's E36 318is is over 200k. The Z06/E36 feel discrepancy may come from that BMW suspension tuning! I seem to keep coming back to the S2000 because it has "Honda reliability" but with true sports car performance.

 

Thank you all for the great input so far! Looks like I need further investigate the Corvette!

[Mikelly]

I also owned this for about 6 months...

 

 

A 2002, the last year of the Z3MRoadster. I'd have kept that car if I could have justified having it and the Zcar and the Porsche 911 Turbo, and the space to garage them all. I didn't and couldn't. That said, Everything Michael mentions about it above is true except for the single biggest reason I'd have had to spend money on the car... The snap oversteer of that car was flat dangerous. It was the MOST unpredictable car I've ever owned in regards to that... I'm no Michael Schumacher, but I do instruct at DE events and the only way I'd recommend an M Zroadster is with that in mind. AND if you plan to DE with it, most clubs will not allow the OEM factory pop-ups. They simply don't meet most track insurance coverages.

 

Personally, I'd hunt down that 50th edition Z06 linked above and see if you can get it for $18K... That is one hell of a car for the money.

 

Mike

[johnc]

What Mike says above regarding the M Coupe and Roadster. They have the previous generation E30 semi-trailing arm rear suspension and can be a handful at the limit, especially if you hit a bump. One lap, the corner is fine, next lap - oh shit!

[clutchdust]

I'm curious to know why you're so hard set on the Z06, if you go with the c5. The coupe can be had for a bargain now and you can add to it later on. Figure 345hp factory, bolt on a Paxton/Vortech and all of a sudden you're pushing 450hp. Better than the c5z did and a price saving to boot. A set of Pfadt bars and shocks and you have a car that's very liveable Monday through Friday and a weekend track terror.

Personally, I would look for the '99-'00 hardtop (pre-Z06) if I was going to hotrod one. They're kind of bastard children so they can be had pretty inexpensive and make a great platform for building one up.

As to the S2000, I've driven a couple on the track and I find them great track cars. I would totally buy one if it was a dedicated track car. But my only experience with it on streets I found it to be a bit nervous on crappy roads, and the small interior means that it is pretty much strictly a commuter. Fun, but commuter.

[Leon]

I also owned this for about 6 months...

 

A 2002, the last year of the Z3MRoadster. I'd have kept that car if I could have justified having it and the Zcar and the Porsche 911 Turbo, and the space to garage them all. I didn't and couldn't. That said, Everything Michael mentions about it above is true except for the single biggest reason I'd have had to spend money on the car... The snap oversteer of that car was flat dangerous. It was the MOST unpredictable car I've ever owned in regards to that... I'm no Michael Schumacher, but I do instruct at DE events and the only way I'd recommend an M Zroadster is with that in mind. AND if you plan to DE with it, most clubs will not allow the OEM factory pop-ups. They simply don't meet most track insurance coverages.

 

Personally, I'd hunt down that 50th edition Z06 linked above and see if you can get it for $18K... That is one hell of a car for the money.

 

Mike

Nice! Interesting, I have heard snap oversteer and unpredictable about the S2000, but not the M. I'll be on the lookout for a clean Z06, to see if it works for me. I think that 50th anniversary is in Georgia, but I don't think I'm ready to fully commit yet!

 

 

What Mike says above regarding the M Coupe and Roadster. They have the previous generation E30 semi-trailing arm rear suspension and can be a handful at the limit, especially if you hit a bump. One lap, the corner is fine, next lap - oh ****!

Thanks, good to know! Limit handling will not be a deal-breaker since this will be a DD and occasional autocrosser. I will not push it on the streets and autox is a safe environment for me to test the limits. I do love the looks of the M Coupe but they are tough to find, especially without the sunroof. A friend of mine did have an E30 M3 for a while, and that car is a blast! I've also driven another friend's E36 M3 and I didn't have trouble with either car's handling. So from my experiences I think the M Coupe will be livable. Then again, I haven't tracked either of them.

 

 

I'm curious to know why you're so hard set on the Z06, if you go with the c5. The coupe can be had for a bargain now and you can add to it later on. Figure 345hp factory, bolt on a Paxton/Vortech and all of a sudden you're pushing 450hp. Better than the c5z did and a price saving to boot. A set of Pfadt bars and shocks and you have a car that's very liveable Monday through Friday and a weekend track terror.

Personally, I would look for the '99-'00 hardtop (pre-Z06) if I was going to hotrod one. They're kind of bastard children so they can be had pretty inexpensive and make a great platform for building one up.

As to the S2000, I've driven a couple on the track and I find them great track cars. I would totally buy one if it was a dedicated track car. But my only experience with it on streets I found it to be a bit nervous on crappy roads, and the small interior means that it is pretty much strictly a commuter. Fun, but commuter.

The thing is, I'd like the car to be what I want out of the box. I'm not looking to modify much, if anything, and the Z06 already does it all. If I go with the Corvette, I'm going "all out". Otherwise, I just don't see me being interested in one. I have my Zs to work on and I just want my DD to be something fun, easy to maintain, and toss-able when I hit an autoX once in a while and don't take the Z. I think all three, the Z06, S2000, and M Coupe come well-outfitted from the factory, with nothing needed to make them "better" in my mind.

 

I know the Honda is a bit twitchy and stiff but I can handle that. In terms of interior space and the S2000 being small, I think I can live with that. When I thought about what I use my Accord for, I realized that 99% of the time I'm either by myself, or driving one other person. The cargo I carry on a daily basis is minimal. For the days when I need a larger vehicle, I have access to my fiancee's new Outback. She has given me the go ahead to get as impractical of a car as I want, while I still can! Anyone have a Caterham 7 or Ariel Atom sitting around?

[Mikelly]

Have you owned a C5? They're notorious for heat issues as is, and anyone who'se had to deal with that will tell you that forced induction on that car is asking for trouble. They lack airflow in the engine bay. Buddy of mine just found out the hard way that the LS6 motor does not like to get hot, and much more than 235 degrees for more than a few minutes and you're done. Maybe not today, maybe not next week... But the damage is done. Heads and cam combo will get you to a much more stress free 450 WHP than forced induction.

 

As to the comments about the suspension/brake upgrades, my 99C5 coupe had upgrades to make it a targa Z06, and sure it handled as well as a Z06. But if you can buy a Stock, clean, reasonably low mileage Z06 for $18K, and drive it in stock condition, you'll be way ahead of the game. The car simply does everything well, crappy interior not withstanding.

 

Mike

 

I'm curious to know why you're so hard set on the Z06, if you go with the c5. The coupe can be had for a bargain now and you can add to it later on. Figure 345hp factory, bolt on a Paxton/Vortech and all of a sudden you're pushing 450hp. Better than the c5z did and a price saving to boot. A set of Pfadt bars and shocks and you have a car that's very liveable Monday through Friday and a weekend track terror.

Personally, I would look for the '99-'00 hardtop (pre-Z06) if I was going to hotrod one. They're kind of bastard children so they can be had pretty inexpensive and make a great platform for building one up.

As to the S2000, I've driven a couple on the track and I find them great track cars. I would totally buy one if it was a dedicated track car. But my only experience with it on streets I found it to be a bit nervous on crappy roads, and the small interior means that it is pretty much strictly a commuter. Fun, but commuter.

 

Leon, If you haven't experienced the snap oversteer in an S2000, I can tell you it will catch you the exact same way. If you haven't experienced it yet, you're not pushing the car hard in corners.

 

Good luck with the search and let us know what you decide!

Mike

Edited November 26, 2011 by Mikelly

[Leon]

Leon, If you haven't experienced the snap oversteer in an S2000, I can tell you it will catch you the exact same way. If you haven't experienced it yet, you're not pushing the car hard in corners.

 

Good luck with the search and let us know what you decide!

Mike

 

Mike, I definitely have experienced it in the S2000! Although it did have something to do with the rear tire pressures being unequal, as we later found out. Truthfully, when it happened, my correction felt very easy and natural because of the connective feeling to the car that the S gives that I had nothing but confidence even after that. I didn't have a problem correcting the S, but I didn't over-correct like many seem to. I'm sure it could bite me eventually, but I don't push my own limits, at least not on public roads.

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences, it definitely helps! I will definitely let you guys know when the decision is made!

[MikeBZ]

I had a daily driver 01 S2000, great car, and like most things with a Honda badge, reliability was never an issue. And I was able to do my own maintenance . I only did 2 track days at sears point and thunderhill but the car was awesome.

 

For a daily driver it’s a hard car to beat, my only complaint was a lack of torque. Sure I could drive around at 7500-9k all day to make up for it, but for everyday type situations it sometimes felt pretty gut-less. (I had an intake and exhaust on it, but save your money for forced induction, most mods have a minimal impact)

 

Check out http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/ if you haven't already, good info and a good place to find one to buy.

[letitsnow]

I really liked the E36 M3 that I drove, comfortable, handled well, fairly quick(it felt much faster than it actually was). If I were to buy one it would have to be in very good shape to begin with.

 

I've driven a base C5 vert too, the interior didn't feel that cheap or crappy to me.

 

Around here the corvette wouldn't be a very good year round DD, the M3 would probably be a bit better for that.

Edited November 26, 2011 by letitsnow

[johnc]

The AP1 S2K had a problem with tearing the front upper control arm mounts out of the chassis when road raced and autocrossed. There's a TSB from Honda that covers the repair and it was based on how I fixed about a 1/2 dozen cars for customers. Honda was in my shop taking pictures on how I did the fix and I, unfortunately, lit a Honda VP's Bruno Mali shoe on fire. I put it out one he stopped jumping around.

 

IMHO, the snap oversteer issue in the S2K is exaggerated. The cars (especially the AP1) are very neutral and very responsive to the throttle. If you're lower in the rpm band and lift on a corner the results are subdued. If you're in the upper rpm band and you lift of the throttle in a corner the results are more dramatic. Very catch able if you get on the gas quickly and have quick hands. Once you figure it out you end up doing it on purpose because its such a hoot. Kinda like a stock suspension 240Z.

[CamH]

Obviously, the S2000 and the E36 M3 are going to be much, much slower in a straight line than a Corvette, E46 M3, M Roadster, or M Coupe. There's about a ~90hp difference between the two groups, and it shows.

 

Personally, my DD is a lightly modded E36 M3, and one of my very close friends DDs a lightly modded AP1 S2000, and I have a lot of time behind the wheel in that car as well. I've never been in either car at anything like an AutoX, though. I like my M3, but I know it's not the fastest car in the world, and would probably get shown up by a new Maxima, or something (same goes for the S2000.) The S2000 is pretty nice to drive as well, but only around town. They are wound up very, very tight on the freeway, and it can be very obnoxious. The S2000 makes you wish that they had a 7 speed transmission, or a sane 6th gear ratio. I think the AP2 is slightly better in this regard.

 

 

Really, all the cars that you listed are pretty fun, good looking, "cool" cars, and you'd probably enjoy any of them. I'd personally buy the M Coupe if given the choice. What a beautiful car!

 

 

That's my 2 cents.

[Leon]

I had a daily driver 01 S2000, great car, and like most things with a Honda badge, reliability was never an issue. And I was able to do my own maintenance . I only did 2 track days at sears point and thunderhill but the car was awesome.

 

For a daily driver it’s a hard car to beat, my only complaint was a lack of torque. Sure I could drive around at 7500-9k all day to make up for it, but for everyday type situations it sometimes felt pretty gut-less. (I had an intake and exhaust on it, but save your money for forced induction, most mods have a minimal impact)

 

Check out http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/ if you haven't already, good info and a good place to find one to buy.

Nice, I didn't know you had an S2000, Mike! I have checked out S2ki, and while there is some good info there, I've realized that many S2k owners seem to be morons...

 

 

I really liked the E36 M3 that I drove, comfortable, handled well, fairly quick(it felt much faster than it actually was). If I were to buy one it would have to be in very good shape to begin with.

 

I've driven a base C5 vert too, the interior didn't feel that cheap or crappy to me.

 

Around here the corvette wouldn't be a very good year round DD, the M3 would probably be a bit better for that.

I've really enjoyed all E36 cars I've driven. BMW did a great job with every facet it seems, from the driving position, sound of the doors closing to the feel of the buttons. Everything feels very well thought-out. As far as year-round DD, this is not a problem in these parts!

 

 

The AP1 S2K had a problem with tearing the front upper control arm mounts out of the chassis when road raced and autocrossed. There's a TSB from Honda that covers the repair and it was based on how I fixed about a 1/2 dozen cars for customers. Honda was in my shop taking pictures on how I did the fix and I, unfortunately, lit a Honda VP's Bruno Mali shoe on fire. I put it out one he stopped jumping around.

 

IMHO, the snap oversteer issue in the S2K is exaggerated. The cars (especially the AP1) are very neutral and very responsive to the throttle. If you're lower in the rpm band and lift on a corner the results are subdued. If you're in the upper rpm band and you lift of the throttle in a corner the results are more dramatic. Very catch able if you get on the gas quickly and have quick hands. Once you figure it out you end up doing it on purpose because its such a hoot. Kinda like a stock suspension 240Z.

 

Good info on the control arm mounts Jon, thanks!

 

I had a feeling it's exaggerated, it seems people that don't really know what they're doing are the ones that lose control "for no reason".

 

This is why I loved driving the S2000, it's so neutral and easy to toss around. Talk about a fun car!

 

 

Obviously, the S2000 and the E36 M3 are going to be much, much slower in a straight line than a Corvette, E46 M3, M Roadster, or M Coupe. There's about a ~90hp difference between the two groups, and it shows.

 

Personally, my DD is a lightly modded E36 M3, and one of my very close friends DDs a lightly modded AP1 S2000, and I have a lot of time behind the wheel in that car as well. I've never been in either car at anything like an AutoX, though. I like my M3, but I know it's not the fastest car in the world, and would probably get shown up by a new Maxima, or something (same goes for the S2000.) The S2000 is pretty nice to drive as well, but only around town. They are wound up very, very tight on the freeway, and it can be very obnoxious. The S2000 makes you wish that they had a 7 speed transmission, or a sane 6th gear ratio. I think the AP2 is slightly better in this regard.

 

 

Really, all the cars that you listed are pretty fun, good looking, "cool" cars, and you'd probably enjoy any of them. I'd personally buy the M Coupe if given the choice. What a beautiful car!

 

 

That's my 2 cents.

 

Honestly, I don't mind not having the quickest car on the straight since 99.9% of the driving I do will be at low speeds. I drive like a grandpa on my commutes, so didn't mind the low gearing of the S too much. I actually like it!

 

Now you see why I'm in such a dilemma! All three have great redeeming qualities, and all three will absolutely be fun. I'd love to find an M Coupe in good shape, without a sunroof and reasonably priced. We'll see if that happens!

 

Thanks guys!

Edited November 27, 2011 by Leon

[Michael]

If you "drive like a grandpa" then you'll likely be happiest with the C5. It is remarkably tolerant to low rpm/high gears. All of the others require attention to being in the power-band that the engine most prefers. My M3 (the regular E36, not the 2-seater) has a 3.7 rear, whereas stock is something like 3.15. This definitely helps with apparent feel at low rpms, but the price is high highway rpms (3500 rpm at 70 mph), the hit in mileage, and the need for a very early 1st-->2nd upshift.

 

The C5 Z06 is geared more deeply than the regular C5, so that's another reason to opt for the Z06.