Administrators RTz Posted February 12, 2012 Administrators Share Posted February 12, 2012 4G63 and I'm moving the battey and cooling system to the rear of the car If you wouldn't mind terribly, I'd like to know the overall height of that motor. From the bottom of the pan to the top of the timing gear, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Very interesting to think about. I guess it makes sense that more rear weight would make faster lap times. I guess on the track, you're better off keeping both rear wheels down, and picking up a front wheel around a corner. Haha not on FWD cars, there's one corner on my local fun-road that if I go around it at about 35 in my mini (really tight road/ S turn), it totaly unweights the front end for a minute (67f 33r weight balance i think), and the front tires will just spin for a moment if i keep my foot in it. Some other corners will lift one rear wheel up. I guess for me, it's more about a car being fun and I guess having the feeling of good handling on the back roads, and I wonder if a little front weight balance is acctually better in that case, so you can let the rear end out a little and keep the front planted... Seems like having more rear weight over the rear end would make it like a porsche- one you get it to slide, have fun getting straight again! I guess I'm also thrown off by the fact that most people (that I've seen anyways) who try and move weight back are drag racers for an obvious reason. I never thought it'd be a good thing on the track. Am I wrong with my assumption that 50-50 weight balance or maybe like 54f 46r would be the most "fun"? I realize this is all subjective, but I'm interested to know... I guess at the end of the day, we're only talking a couple percent of weight balance, which you probably wouldn't even notice on the street anyways, and would only really become an important variable on the track at track speeds... But it's an interesting exercise none the less. Also, I've always wondered, after you add a roll bar, strut bar, speakers, etc. to the back of the car, and sit in the driver's seat, don't you give the rear more weight than the front, since it's basically 50-50 stock? Or is it about the right amount to give you a perfect 50-50 with driver? I guess fuel amount counts too, let's call it a full tank. I really don't know as much as most people in this thread, I'm just trying to understand what exactly makes a RWD car handle well, or "fun" in my case. I appologize if I've asked some questions that have been beaten to death, or if I don't make much sense (it is 4 am...). Looking forward to my lesson on Z car handling! EDIT: Forgot to ask... Has anyone done a v4/v2 conversion? I hadn't even thought of motorcycle engines... asuzuki hayabusa engine would probably be a nice lightweight engine, and at 1300cc, it's got some power for sure. Has anyone put one in a Z? I know a lot of guys put them in classic mini's... Hmmm... that'd be pretty darn cool in a Z car. Can you say over 10,000 rpm, 12.5:1 CR, 4 valve per cylinder, DOHC inline 4... that gets 33mpg? and weighs 220 pounds ready to run? Who's doing this? haha is it even possible to use a motorcycle transmission on a car? If that's possible, that may be on my to-do list for when I win the lottery.... Edited February 12, 2012 by luseboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenState Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 This is one of my fantasy engine choices for the Z: Hartley V8 Engines 75° odd fire V8 2.8 LITER, 170 cu. in. displacement (3.0 liter optional) 84mm Bore X 63mm Stroke (67 stroke optional) 4 cams, 32 valves via internal silent chain 530mm wide x 485mm long x 530mm high 400HP @ 10,000 rpm with stock street cams (higher spec. is available) 245 ft-lbs torque @ 7500 rpm 200 lbs engine weight Billet nitrided steel 180° crank 4340 H-beam con-rods with ARP bolts Billet 6061-T6 aluminum crankcase Dry sump 0il system with 4 stage pump All this for a mere $30,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker81 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 wow that engine is crazy...it's actually 30k for the engine?? insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaofox Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The hartley is also on my fantasy build list. The specs are just amazing, and the weight of the motor is even more baffling. Would be awesome if they turbo'd it! But at the cost of $30k, you can find a nice vr38dett and somehow fashion a monster z from that!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 That is insane, such a cool engine. Its too bad the 4 cyl. version costs $20k, that's an impressive engine too. Seems like there's a lot of engines that are just as powerful out there for way less money. A twin turbo SBC would be more powerful, though probably 3 times as heavy! So... I guess what I'm trying to say is, which lottery is the best one to enter? Now that would certainly be a hybrid Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Single cam VG, easy. ZR8ED said it "changed the whole car" in terms of handling. I couldn't say because I've only just started driving it. And I didn't drive it with the L28 for very long. Puts the entire engine behind the rack. Not quite past the axle. Move the shifter back and it could go farther. It's a bit lighter than the L. Although with all these manifolds on it now... Dual cam, not so easy. I know someone's done it but I can't find any photos. Edited February 12, 2012 by BLOZ UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Any pictures of this setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I know the VQ doesn't get that much love yet, But I really gotta mention it. It like the VG fits behind the steering crossmember, but requires a little modification to install. It's almost 300 HP stock and weight a bit more than 1/2 what the L28 does, doe to the alluminum alloys. It's a nice engine. I don't know what the 6sp tranny weighs though. Unfortunately neither EYH or AHoke are on here much anymore to get the weight dist from their swapped VQ S30's. Mines still disassembled pending paint so I can't tell you. But it would certainly be something to investigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted February 14, 2012 Administrators Share Posted February 14, 2012 ...and weight a bit more than 1/2 what the L28 does, doe to the alluminum alloys. Please don't do that. Just because it's aluminum doesn't automatically mean it's 'weightless'. If you want to post claims of this nature, we ask you to provide some back-up for the statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Sitting behind the steering rack is not the end all/be all for weight distribution. While it does help, there are many other considerations that come into play. An LSx sits behind the steering rack as well, the alternative and crank pulley are the only things over the rack. I would imagine that an SBC sits behind the rack too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazerRackham Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Sitting behind the steering rack is not the end all/be all for weight distribution. While it does help, there are many other considerations that come into play. An LSx sits behind the steering rack as well, the alternative and crank pulley are the only things over the rack. I would imagine that an SBC sits behind the rack too. I really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond and not poop all over me. I frequent the internet more than most of you could ever believe (Comp Sci major.) I know some people can get vicious when it comes to "RTFM" or (Reading The ******* Manual.) I just put a 1000 dollar down payment on my 1976 280z. I really value everybodys' suggestions, especially that Hartley engine. I have been obsessing over this car non stop for the past several weeks. There are some engines I hadn't ever heard of until they were mentioned just now. This place is a mecca for me. I am sure you people may think of me as a weekend warrior, as I am sure many lurkers of this forums are, but I am balls to the ******* wall about this car. Teaching myself to weld, learning the ins and outs of engines, the whole 9 yards. As for what I intend to do with my car, I want to race it naturally, or I wouldn't have brought this topic up. Of course, I want to make it a daily driver first. I'll be creating a new thread dedicated to her as soon as she is in my possession. Regarding what type of performance I would like is excellent handling, seconded by launch/acceleration, and third-ed by top speed. Edited February 14, 2012 by MazerRackham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 In all honesty, the hartly is a deal at 30k. Find me another motor that will make 400 na HP that I can pick up and load into a trunk by myself. Does that mean its the best option for that price? Not necessarily. I've seen dimensions of the vg and vq and they're definitely shorter than lsx motors. That said, almost any v8 or v6 will be shorter than the l6. And THAT said, the l6 isn't nearly as heavy as other inline 6 motors like the RB. They also tend to be lighter than an all iron v8. So in all my confusion I've intentionally caused, nearly ANY motor can yield driving characteristics that most people would consider good, spritely, and forgiving. Suspension and chassis tuning is what it will come down to every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 In all honesty, the hartly is a deal at 30k. Find me another motor that will make 400 na HP that I can pick up and load into a trunk by myself. Does that mean its the best option for that price? Not necessarily. Particularly one that has readily available replacement and aftermarket parts. Need a head? Pick up a wrecked Hayabusa for peanuts. To find NA power/weight ratios similar to that you have to start looking at companies like Judd, but they are much pricier. If I were building a no holds barred lightweight car that would be at the top of my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Suspension and chassis tuning is what it will come down to every time. Exactly! New folks tend to focus on weight distribution as some handling nirvana when history has shown that cars like the Integra Type R (60F,40R) and the Porsche 911 (40F,60R) can be tuned to handle extraordinarily well. As the old Porsche saying goes, "You can't turn a pig into a thoroughbred, but you can make an awful fast pig." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Please don't do that. Just because it's aluminum doesn't automatically mean it's 'weightless'. If you want to post claims of this nature, we ask you to provide some back-up for the statement. Okay, I didn't have the exact weights in front of me during my initial post, but the Vq35DE weighs in ~330Lbs according to Nico. From here on Hybridz the L28 weighs ~523Lbs. So yes my statement is true, "a bit more than half" what the L28 Weighs. Now both engines could be made to weigh more/less depending on what accessories/mounts you're using. I never said the VQ was "Weightless" just that it was lighter. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't know it was, I have one sitting in my garage afterall. Phar Edited February 17, 2012 by Pharaohabq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Again, BAD INFO! Weights are VERY dependent on a multitude of factors. Without knowing what's included on a scale the number is meaningless. http://forums.hybrid...hts-definitive/ Now you have REAL info on what the L motor weighs. But we still don't know what was included with the VQ to weigh 330lbs. Flywheel? Clutch? AC? PS Pump? Wiring? Exhaust Manis? A lightweight L motor should be well under 400lbs in running condition. The weigh WILL go up though as you add things like AC, Power Steering, or an OEM flywheel. It's not uncommon for some OEM flywheels on motors to be WELL over 40 lbs, while you can get aftermarket flywheels that are under 10 lbs.... That's a 30 lb difference in ONE part. So even comparing a SBC to a iron block LSX you have to take into account things like flywheels that could very well be vastly different between the two motors, but can be readily changed. Also, if you want to really open your eyes, do some research on the weight differences between the LSX iron blocks and LSX ali blocks in block weight ALONE, not entire engine. The difference is minimal, and it's the largest piece of metal in an engine, yet people want to make the material such a big deal. IT'S NOT! Edited February 17, 2012 by Gollum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted February 17, 2012 Administrators Share Posted February 17, 2012 Okay, I didn't have the exact weights in front of me during my initial post, but the Vq35DE weighs in ~330Lbs according to Nico. From here on Hybridz the L28 weighs ~523Lbs. I apologize for sounding d**k-ish, but I don't find those links very convincing. I have a little more faith in something like this... http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/59086-enginetrans-weights-definitive/page__p__540506__hl__definitive__fromsearch__1#entry540506 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Suspension and chassis tuning is what it will come down to every time. Exactly! New folks tend to focus on weight distribution as some handling nirvana when history has shown that cars like the Integra Type R (60F,40R) and the Porsche 911 (40F,60R) can be tuned to handle extraordinarily well. As the old Porsche saying goes, "You can't turn a pig into a thoroughbred, but you can make an awful fast pig." Double-exactly! I just wanted to emphasize the importance of these statements. 50-50 distribution is not magical and will not all of a sudden double your lateral-G's. Factors like tires, roll stiffness distribution, CG location, etc. have much more to do with "handling" than weight distribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTHALOSISM Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I agree with RTz LT1 with alum heads, and make it a WC BWT5 for even less weight compared to the heavy t56. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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