MaTTSuN Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Well i sorted out my wiring issue and got my car started again after a long winter break. What i was wondering if im missing something in the settings to get it to start faster. It usually takes 10-15 seconds of cranking before i finally get it to run. And its not very pretty get there, with it seemingly getting little ignition kicks until it finally starts. Im running MS2 with spark and fuel, running the 81 cas. Ill probably be upgrading to an EDIS set up sometime this summer but would like to get it to start like a normal car "cranking for 1-4 seconds" then starting. So i guess my question is, Where in the setting should i be adjusting that effects start time? Any ideas? Thanks: Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Forgetting the cold start settings are you sure you're fuel system isn't bleeding off pressure through a small leak somewhere? Or are you positive this is a tune problem? and if you are are you running a cold start injector and just don't have it working properly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) If adding throttle doesn't help it start faster, add more cranking PW. Otherwise, try lowering it. EDIT: Also, retarding your crank timing can help as well. I've had my MS2 VGs start in under 1 second. Edited June 7, 2012 by BLOZ UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazerRackham Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Forgetting the cold start settings are you sure you're fuel system isn't bleeding off pressure through a small leak somewhere? Or are you positive this is a tune problem? and if you are are you running a cold start injector and just don't have it working properly? I'll have to agree with Blu on this one. When I had some small leaks I had the exact same issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) I'll have to agree with Blu on this one. When I had some small leaks I had the exact same issue. thanks for the Ideas guys, How small is a "really small" leak? I have a fuel gauge on my fuel rail and its at 40psi when i turn the key on. I havent watched while cranking though. Before i start the car the gauge reads 0 so there is a leak somewhere maybe an injector..... it takes time to get to 0 maybe a hour or 2 and i dont have a cold start injector Ill try playing with the PW and timing as well, I think its a little advanced while cranking should have some results later today:-) thanks again Matt Edited June 7, 2012 by MaTTSuN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 thanks for the Ideas guys, How small is a "really small" leak? I have a fuel gauge on my fuel rail and its at 40psi when i turn the key on. I havent watched while cranking though. Before i start the car the gauge reads 0 so there is a leak somewhere maybe an injector..... it takes time to get to 0 maybe a hour or 2 Ill try playing with the PW and timing as well, I think its a little advanced while cranking should have some results later today:-) thanks again Matt If you have fuel rail pressure before you crank, that's not it. My rail pressure drops to zero after I turn off the engine (aftermarket AEM regulator), and my car will start in just a couple of seconds after MS primes the rail when the ignition turns it on. Ignition timing may have more to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil280zxt Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'm not familiar with your particular setup, but the fuel pressure drops to zero over night on my 280zxt. When starting it cold, I always turn the key to "on" first without engaging the starter until the fuel pump shuts off, which is normally 5 seconds. This builds fuel pressure and she always starts on the first try after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 i was looking at my pressure and it come up to 40psi almost right away, so ill have to dig in the ignition setting some more. to top it off i think my battery is starting to kick it. only reads 10 volts on Tuner studio ... I need to fin the receipt so i can exchange it. Its really hard to tune a start up sequence when the battery dies really fast.... I got it to start once and the voltage was at 13.5-14 so i know the alternator it working as far as my set up its a stock fuel rail with ford 340cc injectors stock regulator, stock style fuel pump. i also have an accel coil for spark, maybe a little better then the stock one... on your guys set-ups, do you have an upgraded ignition with the MS? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) My car starts great, maybe 1.5sec of cranking. Ever since I went to waste spark with the LS2 coils, it will kick back every now and then like the timing is way advanced. My FPR leaks down very quickly according to my sensor, just a few seconds and it's down to atmospheric pressure. Edited June 8, 2012 by letitsnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 My car starts great, maybe 1.5sec of cranking. Ever since I went to waste spark with the LS2 coils, it will kick back every now and then like the timing is way advanced. My FPR leaks down very quickly according to my sensor, just a few seconds and it's down to atmospheric pressure. Id like to go wasted spark soon but need to use this set-up for a little while still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob80 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I recently tinkered with my MS2 Extra start up on my L28ET. I am running 15 degrees of advance while cranking. I had to mess with the cranking pulses quite a bit before it would start up with having to pump the gas pedal. Try both adding and pulling fuel from your cranking pulse widths. In my case, I kept adding and adding until I was up 400% and realized the potential I could just be flooding the thing, and that's exactly what I was doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 If you have to put your foot on the pedal, take fuel out of the cranking table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer Z Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 You said that it sat for quite a while. Stuck, gummed up, or worn rings can cause a hard start problem like you described. Try changing the oil and taking it out for a 100 mile drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 Ok i just spent a couple hours playing with it, and its pretty sad... maybe im fixing one thing and hurting another side of my tune. I played with everything to do with cranking, holding it at different timing angles but it still wont start. When i first started playing with it it started, not right away but it started. So i let it warm up and tried to get into tuning......2 hours later couldnt even get it started close but no start. Could someone send me there tune so i can see if it works. Not sure what im missing but its something. Have my battery on the charger now so i have some time to figure it out haha the goal is to start with in 3 seconds....but now it wont start at all. It always starts better when its cold as well. once it warms up its a bit of a pain. I guess i forgot to mention that, just remembered Tried everyones ideas but a MSQ would make me just a little happy Im running fuel and spark with a 81CAS, should be the same setting as any distributor Thanks Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer Z Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Started good cold but not when warm?Tight valves? Have you adjusted the valves in a while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Have you reached out to Kurk, he is local to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 Tight Valves? would that make a difference? I havent checked them in a while, i dont think that would fix the issues im having but its on my list to check now. Who is Kurt? is he a megasquirt guru? I think if i can get a known good starting tune, I could narrow down everything else from that. IE "tight valve" My battery has been trickle charging all night so i should have some good juice to play with today. would love to try a few tunes to see the difference, since its pretty easy to burn one on the ECU Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer Z Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 If the valves are tight, they (or a few) will stay open. This will cause the engine to loose compression and be hard to start, among other things. Depending on how tight the valve are, it could make good compression while cold, then as the engine warms and gets hot, the valve will start to leak, making it hard to start while hot, but start OK while cold. If the valves are loose, it won't run well because fuel and exhaust can't get in or out. I'm not saying that this is your problem, I'm saying it fits the symptoms you described. What's the harm in pulling the valve cover and checking the valve adjustment? It has to get done from time to time as part of routine maintenance. If the adjustment is OK then you can eliminate this from the list of "maybe's". It could be a combinations of several things, most of which have been mentioned by other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Valve lash increases (looser valves) as the engine heats up, hence the bigger FSM spec. numbers for a hot lash adjustment. Just saying for clarity. The "starts better when cold" might be the better clue. What settings change as the engine gets warm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Who is Kurt? is he a megasquirt guru? Matt Matt - Kurt is FricFrac on this forum and he is the MegaSquirt Guru..yes! Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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