luseboy Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Since the 240Z has 50mm strut tubes we already know that the eBay K Sport vendor doesn't know much about the cars. The K Sport shocks have the same quality and performance issues as the Megans. Acctually as far as I know, the k sports and megans are made in the same factory by the same people. They might be made with some different parts or something but its my understanding that they're basically the same shock. I still hold true to my personal belief that the best system is the sleeve type coilover in a sectioned tube. Allows you to use any shock you want so long as it fits the tube, etc. as has been mentioned time and time again. I think the fact that practically every fast racer in the past 30 some odd years of Z racing has used a similar system backs that belief up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Acctually as far as I know, the k sports and megans are made in the same factory by the same people. They might be made with some different parts or something but its my understanding that they're basically the same shock. I still hold true to my personal belief that the best system is the sleeve type coilover in a sectioned tube. Allows you to use any shock you want so long as it fits the tube, etc. as has been mentioned time and time again. I think the fact that practically every fast racer in the past 30 some odd years of Z racing has used a similar system backs that belief up. That's a good point and I'm planning on doing the typical GC setup pretty soon. I don't want to use Tokicos but there aren't many options outside of that. John, are there any inserts with digressive valving that are currently on the market and can fit a sectioned 240Z strut tube? I know you're planning on selling some Bilsteins sometime in the near future, but it seems as though they require strut modifications? Feel free to PM me if you'd rather do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The Tokico Illuminas are somewhat digressive - at least they have knee point in the rate increase. But because rebound and compression valving are connected when you get rebound adjusted to the right point there is too much compression damping. The Tokico HTS shocks (112F and 102F) have much better valving and the adjuster only affects rebound. They are worth searching for. Also, the Bilsein P30-0032 is a good shock for a reasonable price. Unfortunately, as of right now, Bilstein says there are none available in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Haha well I chose to pick my battles with the illumina's for now. In a full-fledged rebuild (as you know leon ) and figure I might as well blow up a pair of cheap shocks while getting used to the car, while saving some money for some other things. Plus I don't really plan on tracking or auto-x'ing the car anytime soon, if ever. I am interested to know what nicer shocks are out there for when I get to the point of changing out the illumina's, but for now i'll just run them. They won't blow up sitting in my parts room anyways haha. People have done some crazy stuff coilover-wise. I've heard of people completely grafting a new strut tube on top of the stock spindle, in particular, an ae86 tube w/ a sleeve coilover. I'm sure more crazy stuff has been done, but the way I see it is you should really choose which shocks you want before you section, and section for them (add room for a spacer if you want). The most common (what I did), is sectioning for the mr2 aw11 rear shocks for the front, and the 240z front shocks for the rear, giving you about 1.5" sectioned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24OZ Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 P30-0032 might not be available at present directly from Bilstein in the US but shox.com may be able to get you a set, they did for me about a month ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EF Ian Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 If you go low on a single perch design you end up adjusting the preloading, with a dual perch you can go as low or high as you like without affecting the preload. Makes it easy to adjust the height of the car without altering the balance of it. Also with a single perch design the lower you go the less shock travel you have which. I'm thinking about using MeisterR coilovers with a threaded tube, in America I'm sure you haven't heard of MeisterR but they are becoming quite popular in the UK, I have a set in my EF9 and they very very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I'm chiming in late, but wanted to pass this along... After 25 years owning Datsuns, I've come to the realization that we've been UNDERSPRINGING these cars, yes even for the street. I was shocked and pleasently surprised while driving all over the town of Watkins Glen last year, and the drive out to Horseheads and back on public roads, that my 400# rear and 500# front spring combo, along with the Koni inserts John is mentioning above, the car was compliant, but certainly not bone jarring. I've had others drive the car and ride in it and they said the same thing. If I ever end up with another 1st gen Zcar for a daily driver/weekend car, I'll be running something in the 300-350# range, and a setup like JohnC. sells. It just works so much better. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I'm chiming in late, but wanted to pass this along... After 25 years owning Datsuns, I've come to the realization that we've been UNDERSPRINGING these cars, yes even for the street. I was shocked and pleasently surprised while driving all over the town of Watkins Glen last year, and the drive out to Horseheads and back on public roads, that my 400# rear and 500# front spring combo, along with the Koni inserts John is mentioning above, the car was compliant, but certainly not bone jarring. I've had others drive the car and ride in it and they said the same thing. If I ever end up with another 1st gen Zcar for a daily driver/weekend car, I'll be running something in the 300-350# range, and a setup like JohnC. sells. It just works so much better. Mike The dampers are what really affect the ride. A broad range of springs can be used as long as they're properly damped. The issue in using high spring rates in the S30 is that the body is really not that rigid to be able to fully take advantage of it, unless the body is somehow stiffened. The 280Z is very likely more torsionally stiff than a 240Z, but by how much I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The Tokico Illuminas are somewhat digressive - at least they have knee point in the rate increase. But because rebound and compression valving are connected when you get rebound adjusted to the right point there is too much compression damping. The Tokico HTS shocks (112F and 102F) have much better valving and the adjuster only affects rebound. They are worth searching for. Also, the Bilsein P30-0032 is a good shock for a reasonable price. Unfortunately, as of right now, Bilstein says there are none available in the US. Thanks John, I'm assuming you don't sell the HTS anymore. The 112F and 102F are shorter than stock inserts, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I don't sell Tokico anymore. The Illuminas are fine, the HTS are better, Bilsteins are even better, Konis are better still, and hopefully the 36mm Bilsteins will be even more better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rome03 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) I hope this thread still has some life left in it and I can get some help with my coil over setup. I'm having some trouble making the right decision. I really like the TTT coil over set up because it already comes with the spindle and would be a direct swap. I didn't want to go the sectioning strut route because I don't have the skills or tools to do it and figured buying GC coilovers and shocks plus the labor for someone to do it would be close or more than what I would pay for a bolt on conversion. The TTT kit ends up being 2000 for all four corners and I'm limited to about 1300 tops. I was planning on buying the Ksport kit but read that they don't fit or that they're not exactly made for the 280z. I don't really understand why but I trust what others have said since they know more than me. Also, i don't think they come with spindles so that also means welding them to mine. The McKinney kit would be good enough for me since I'm not going to be racing on the track. My goals are to have a nice lowered stance with 15x10 diamond racing wheels. The problem with the Mckinney kit is that I have to have it welded to the spindles and thats more money......Is this something that has to be done with pretty much all kits? That is, of course, not if I keep my strut housing and section it. So heres a question.....will all coilover kits need to be welded to my stock spindle, assuming they don't come with one? how would the new shocks fit into the strut housing if I decided to section it, do they slide in and you bolt them from the bottom? GC coil overs are about 350. Tokico illuminas are 600 from the z store. Thats 950 plus labor. I've also seen people do the GC coiloevers with KYB shocks and these are only 200 for all four which would save me a lot of money. But again, I have to figure out how much a shop would charge to cut and weld the perch but I would only spend 550 for the coilovers and shocks. I can take the suspension apart and install I just can't do the fabrication. http://www.ebay.com/itm/KYB-2-FRONT-SHOCKS-DATSUN-NISSAN-240Z-260Z-280Z-70-to-78-/400344486675?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3A280Z&hash=item5d36641313&vxp=mtr Any advice. I need some help. Thanks. Edited October 2, 2013 by rome03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 In order to section the struts, you just have to measure, mark with a marker, and use a $20 harbor freight angle grinder to chop them off. Or bring them to an exhaust shop who has to have a saw for chopping piping, and have them chop it. If you think they are competent welders then you can also have them weld it back together. Then if you have the perches they can weld that stuff on also. Pretty much EVERY kit for a Z will require welding of some sort. Tokico's are pretty much dried up in North america, so the next real choice is koni. the KYB's you're seeing probably won't work well if you lower them more than a few inches, and it will ride like poop. The Mckinney kit has a tube that (once welded on) has a larger diameter tube that the shock threads into since they make all there shocks the same size. It's only going to be maybe $200-300 of labor and anyone who charges you more is either the only welder in town or knows you have no other options. After that you can assemble everything else by yourself with simple hand tools. If your budget is $1300, then you're going to be spending most of that on shocks. IIRC koni's (which are the go to shock, now that tokico is messed up) will run you about $200 a shock. The GC kit then cost another $400. Then it would behoove you to invest in some camber plates etc...so in reality expect to pay another $500 for randoms things (new bearings, gland nuts, etc...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EF Ian Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) Don't go for the McKinney ones, one of my shocks broke at the top threaded section when removing the securing bolt, I've been chasing them for a replacement shock for nearly two months now but I'm not getting anywhere. I've already welded the tube onto my hub so I don't even have a rolling car until I receive a replacement. They have pretty much taken my car off the road for good and don't even seem to care, they don't deserve any business. Just awell I don't even live in the same country and them or they would have a really angry customer calling round. Edited October 2, 2013 by EF Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rome03 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Bludestiny. What do you mean by tokico is messed up and dried up in the states. I was looking them up online and saw them for sale. Could help me out. The TTT kit would probably be the only kit that doesn't require welding since it comes with the spindle and it's put together ready for a direct bolt on but they're 2000. I've read the step by step coilover conversion thread that's on here, the piece of housing that you cut off is the same piece that you cut into three pieces, fit onto the housing by hammering it to shape it, and weld which becomes the perch for the sleeve to sit on right? Are there any other shock options besides Koni and KYB. A lot of people run KYB, I'll see what they say about the ride. I want to lower mine about 2.5" from stock. I also called Arizona z car since he's close to where I live. He would charge 300 to section the struts but only if I buy his product. He won't do the labor if I take other coilovers and shocks. I thought that was weird. Ef Ian. Sorry about the shock. I definitely can't get stuck like that. The z is my daily driver and would be screwed. Hope it gets resolved soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 read this thread for the tokico situation: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/112293-tokico-woes/ The TTT kit is pre-assembled by there in house fabricators. I'm not sure what you mean by cutting a piece into three pieces? I would just have a piece of circular steel cut out, and then a correct diameter hole on it, so I could slip it on and weld the entire thing. KYB is generally OEM and soft and don't play well with lowered cars, hence why the only real option is Koni. Tokico was the middle ground. AZC just wants a sale, so I wouldn't bring it to him (not bashing his product, he makes great stuff). Like I said I would make the measurements and bring it to a muffler shop to cut, then have it sandblasted somewhere, then bring it back to the muffler shop to weld the perch on. If you're set on a drop in set, TTT is probably the cheapest set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 How do you guys keep the weld from penetrating the tube and fouling the inside diameter? It was a real PITA working with a rat tail file trying to open the inside enough to insert my shock! But I eventually succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rome03 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Just read the thread. Damn that sucks! So koni is pretty much the only shock unless I want KYB which is oem. Which means if I went that route might as well not even buy them and keep my oem shocks and section those. So could I get the gc coilovers and section the oem shock and run it like that. I mention this because my priority is to get it lowered so I can get the wheels on and figure out how much to cut for the flares. Then when I save up some more I can do the konis. What do you think? This could work right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 You guys have all the information you need to make your decisions regarding coilovers and sectioning. Please stop asking the same questions again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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