Twin cam head for the L6 from Derek at Datsunworks

[Tony D]

Oh Cool, Kidney Surgery.

 

I can honestly said "I chose to cut out a kidney than buy this head right at this very second..."

[budgy]

I actually dreamed last night that I had a twin cam head for my L28, this thread is affecting me mentally and most likely affecting my wallet in the future. 

[Derek]

Got the lower timing chain all set.

 

I had to bore the KA lower gear out to 35mm. I also had to make a couple of spacers so that it was as thick as the L6 lower gear. When I bored it out I lost most of the key way. It also made the hub area a little thin. I decided to make the outer spacer ring dished to slip fit over the hub to add a little strength.  

 

 

 

Here are the 2 parts assembled. 

 

 

And installed on the crank. I had to leave the gap between the gear and the spacers for chain link clearance.

 

 

 

 

Had to remove a couple links and add a half link.  I also had to cut down both guides.  The lead angles on the chain look pretty good. Time will tell though.

 

 

 

Test fitting before I broached the keyway.

 

 

 

 

Stalagmite of chips:)

 

 

 

 

Starting to get all the odds and ends wrapped up. It's tough not getting too far ahead of myself. I want to stay productive but without cams I'm kind of at the end of the line.

 

 

Derek

Edited July 7, 2017 by Derek

[budgy]

Just waiting on Crane to get cams machined? Now that they have patterns for the cams do you think they are okay with building custom grinds for other people that want to build more radical versions of your head? Looks like you can use existing timing chain tensioners as well to help stabilize that @ high rpm? 

[Derek]

Just waiting on Crane to get cams machined? Now that they have patterns for the cams do you think they are okay with building custom grinds for other people that want to build more radical versions of your head? Looks like you can use existing timing chain tensioners as well to help stabilize that @ high rpm? 

 

Here is the link to the Crane custom grind catalog.

http://www.cranecams.com/uploads/catalog/cranecamscamlobeprofilecatalog.pdf

 

Page 62 has the K20 profiles. They also have a few that aren't listed. They can work with you to develop anything you want but that's $$.

 

The timing gear is a mix of L6 and KA stuff. L6 tensioner and guides below and KA above. 

[Derek]

Did a little tinkering today.

 

One last pressure test before I start assembly. Holds 40 psi no problem.

 

 

 

Finally rounded the corner and I feel like I'm officially in assembly mode. Got the valves installed.

 

 

 

Looking a little scruffy but you'll have that with a prototype like this.

 

 

A couple of weeks ago a put the head back in the mill and removed the last of the Honda A3 design. The A3 uses an asymmetrical combustion chamber. I was going to do this mod when I do the stroker but it was bothering me. The head is now closer to the A2 chamber.

 

 

One more dry fit of the rockers. They line up really well on the valves. I'm glad I took the time I did to get it right. Plus I now have good data for the next head.

 

 

Slowly but surely:)

Edited July 7, 2017 by Derek

[madkaw]

It's been just over a year since you started this thread. I think your pace has been anything but slow. I don't know how you have had time to do anything else in your life.

There's guys on here that spend this long just assembling a motor, let alone designing, fabricating and actual assembly.

Looks great. Getting so close.

[fuzzy]

Thanks for the pictures Derek. I was worried that my wet dreams were beginning to dry up there for a moment. 

[Derek]

It's been just over a year since you started this thread. I think your pace has been anything but slow. I don't know how you have had time to do anything else in your life.

There's guys on here that spend this long just assembling a motor, let alone designing, fabricating and actual assembly.

Looks great. Getting so close.

 

Well Tony and I started talking about it in September of 2012 and actively working on it soon after so it's been a little longer for me:)  The whole process has reinforced what I already knew, "if you don't have money you better have time"

 

Since I plan on selling these you can't just roll one bolder up the hill at a time.

Version 2 new exhaust port and complete water jacket redesign:

 

 

 

Thanks for the pictures Derek. I was worried that my wet dreams were beginning to dry up there for a moment. 

wakey wakey hands off snakey

Edited July 7, 2017 by Derek

[Tony D]

Yes, considerable thought went into which head to steal design and configuration from...

This could have been considerably more difficult using a "purist" approach.

Recognizing good design practices and using them pays off down the road.

[Derek]

Yes, considerable thought went into which head to steal design and configuration from...

This could have been considerably more difficult using a "purist" approach.

Recognizing good design practices and using them pays off down the road.

 

They say imitation is the highest form of flattery:) Honda is surely flattered. 

[Xnke]

I will actually get thursday and friday off this week for some kind of holiday thing, so if it's not pouring rain again I'll be draining the coolant and stripping the supercharged Z's manifolds and thermostat housing so I can test fit your headers in the car. Need to make sure I don't hit the floor pan with the collector!

[softopz]

So close I can smell it.

[Derek]

I will actually get thursday and friday off this week for some kind of holiday thing, so if it's not pouring rain again I'll be draining the coolant and stripping the supercharged Z's manifolds and thermostat housing so I can test fit your headers in the car. Need to make sure I don't hit the floor pan with the collector!

 

Hopefully the weather will cooperate.  Headers, cams and valve cover are the last big things that are out of my control. I'll be really glad when those are complete. I'm just anxious to see them hanging off of the motor on the stand:)

 

Again thanks for your effort on these. I know your free time has dried up a bit.

 

 

So close I can smell it.

 

 

Smells like......Victory

[bradyzq]

It seems like this is no longer putting the cart before the horse to ask these questions:

 

What are your plans for engine management, and do you plan to run it in and tune on an engine dyno, or in a car?

 

Well done, sir!

[Derek]

I'm running Meggasquirt MS2extra right now. I use TunerStudio live tune and it works really well. I'm not going to do any Dyno tuning with this motor as it would just be a waste. The test motor is only going to make 8:1 compression because of the flat top pistons. If it feels like it has any power I'll do a dyno pull for fun but this is more of a longevity test for the valve train than a power test. That will come with V2.

[Tony D]

People fail to understand what "development" really means.

I'm sure if they're used to the stuff Microsoft churns out they figure castings warping, chains breaking, maybe a head that won't lay down flat after a few heat cycles due to uneven heating is acceptable and a field patch is fine....

 

But that doesn't work on mechanical devices. For all the thought and theory that has gone into it to this point, there are a LOT of assumptions made that have to be tested. This is literally a "proof of concept" in design parlance. It says "yeah it can be done", what we learn on this head will be critical for V2 which will have a sore, miserable life as "test mule".... If it's properly monitored, and changes implemented that should get a product that most people will accept as a starting point.

 

Due to geographic separation of the principals, getting a head to put on an engine for a 200-hour dyno run just isn't going to happen. Even 5-minute WOT Peak Torque Pulls aren't possible.

 

That will be left to those who buy the heads and test prior to implementing their vision of what the ultimate L-Series will entail.

 

I can say were we three in AZ, NV, and CA, we would undoubtedly have a few meetings and dyno pulls to do testing. But with FL, NV, ROP/SEA being the physical location, getting together for a dyno run will be difficult.

 

I have been invited to assist during the Dyno-Tuning in Australia of a 3.4 Liter OSG head, and from that, feedback will be forthcoming to aid in any redesign or practical alteration on this head.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Tony D

[Derek]

A Tale of two fuel distribution blocks.

 

There are a lot of reasons why I post the good, the bad and the ugly, but mostly because I think it really helps people realize just what goes into creating something that is truly custom. And why custom fabrication is so pricy.  Some time ago on HybridZ there was a thread about a hybrid Z car that was being sold for over a hundred grand or thereabouts. It was green just to jog some memories.  It kind of settled int those that couldn’t see the value and those that do fabrication that could. I’m being broad with my brush but you get the picture. I took one look at the pictures and immediately saw that kind on money in it.

 

So for this tale I’m the customer and the fabricator.  I’m at the point where I want to get going on the fuel system. I made all the injector caps already but I needed a distribution block so I could do the hard lines. I discussed the options with my customer and we settled on a straight block with the fuel lines one on top of the other. Much like the one I had on my car. I did a 3D model of it which included measuring the space available, measuring the distance required between the fitting in order to get a wrench on them, inlet, outlet and mounting holes. The customer approved the 3D model and I commenced to machine the block. Since there was only one I had to baby sit every operation. No screw ups. I chewed up the better part of a day by the time I was done with everything including finishing. Now if you want my undivided attention for a day it’s going to cost you $400.00 or more. So the piece looked exactly like the 3D model and functioned exactly like it was designed to do. Except the customer (me) just didn’t like the look of it in application. The customer wanted it right so we started over with a new design. Now this one took about half the time since it used all the same general measurements and tool operations so the machine work went much faster. 

So here we are with five or six hundred dollars in a simple fuel distribution block.

And that my children is why this crap costs so much:)

 

First design:

 

 

 

 

Second design:

 

 

 

 

And yea I probably could have found something online that would have worked but this one is EXACTLY like I want it:) 

 

Derek

Edited July 7, 2017 by Derek

[garvice]

Well said Derek. Lots of people don't understand the price of custom. I understand it but often can't bring myself to pay for it. Which normally means i end up building it myself and it takes that much longer. Enjoyable and rewarding but man it makes my projects drag on. Keep up the great work and hopefully there are enough people who appreciate the great work AND have the deep pockets to pay for it.

[Derek]

Well said Derek. Lots of people don't understand the price of custom. I understand it but often can't bring myself to pay for it. Which normally means i end up building it myself and it takes that much longer. Enjoyable and rewarding but man it makes my projects drag on. Keep up the great work and hopefully there are enough people who appreciate the great work AND have the deep pockets to pay for it.

 

Thanks

 

Well as I've said before that's the beauty of how we laid this out. If you have access to a manual milling machine and have the skills to do higher end machining then you can take the raw castings all the way to finish. Most of the initial machine work is just drilling and tapping. Now if you want a turn key head I can help you with that as well but that is going to cost.