What is the most recommended suspension set up?

[Kenji]

I have been on this forum for several years and have seen conversations go back and forth with the different aftermarket suspension set ups.  I have seen Arizona Zcar, MM, Silverline etc. options and know that some have flaws in regards to design.  In all the articles that I have read, there hasn't been a solid recommendation that is up to date. (New technology, ideal set-up, etc)  This is an information seeking and would like to find definitive answers.

 

 

References:

 

Rear suspension flaw

What should I do?

Lower Control Arm ?'s

 

 

 

Needs:

Opinions and defintive recommendations on the best set up and why?  Recommedations for items that I have missed.

 

Considerations:

I am wanting a big brakes, sway bars, and 5 lug set up.

 

The car:

72 240z w/ LS1/T56.  Likely to be road raced, will spend the money to do it right the first time.

 

[heavy85]

If you are going to build a road race car step 1 is to pick a class. The only classes Im aware of that allows cross manufacturer engine swaps are unlimited. In that case none of the commercially available packages is the right answer if you want to be competitive.

[johnc]

You'll probably want to run with NASA in TT (Time Trial) or PT (wheel to wheel). I suggest you start in TT. These categories with NASA classify cars in a base class and then are upgraded to higher classes based on mid points. Since your car is an engine swap you'll be classes based on power to weight, drive type, and tires. Download and read the rule book.

 

First thing, figure out what tires you are going to run. Everything else depends on this decision

 

A great limited slip diff should.be your first purchase. OS Giken Super Lock.

 

Then spend your next big chunk of money on shocks. For a strut suspension the shocks are the most important purchase. You should be spending more money on the shocks them what you spend on control arms, camber plates, etc.

 

This should be enough to get you started.

[RebekahsZ]

My opinion: Stock control arms, sectioned coilover conversion to allow 2.5" ID coil springs, koni shocks, camber plates to achieve 3-degrees of camber front and rear (don't stress out over caster), Arizona Z car brakes (or equivalent).

[Kenji]

You'll probably want to run with NASA in TT (Time Trial) or PT (wheel to wheel). I suggest you start in TT. These categories with NASA classify cars in a base class and then are upgraded to higher classes based on mid points. Since your car is an engine swap you'll be classes based on power to weight, drive type, and tires. Download and read the rule book.

 

First thing, figure out what tires you are going to run. Everything else depends on this decision

 

A great limited slip diff should.be your first purchase. OS Giken Super Lock.

 

Then spend your next big chunk of money on shocks. For a strut suspension the shocks are the most important purchase. You should be spending more money on the shocks them what you spend on control arms, camber plates, etc.

 

This should be enough to get you started.

johnc,

 

My goal is to run the widest tire that I can put on with ZG flares or like style.  I do already have a r200 longnose LSD.  As the car sits now, the LS1 is installed, t56 installed, R200, sitting on the ground waiting for the right rear suspension set up.  As far a suspension, I know it's the most important part of my car, as I am asking the question to clarify much talk in several posts with conflicting information and recent new parts available.  As far as what class I will run, I am more of a weekend racer (Auto x, track days, etc.)  If time allows, one day I will race with other cars.  I don't care if I have to run in an unlimited class, but for the time being this car is going to be street legal and raced on the weekends.  If the time arises that I am needing to be in a class, I will just purchase a purpose built car for that class. 

 

RebekahsZ,

I have thought about the sectioning of the stock arms, but thought that maybe technology has made it possible to buy a stronger or more geometric control arm.  I will take all insights into account. Thank you.

[1vicissitude]

Just chime in on John's comment. When he said a great lsd should be your first addition, using a tired old r200 is not what he meant.

 

An OS giken, or better yet one additionally tuned OS Giken, will greatly help getting power to the ground in the most effective way possible. I remember in my miata days, it was not uncommon for the addition of an OS Giken to save several seconds over the stock torsen.

 

Just any ol' lsd doesn't cut it. That ls swap pits you in the company of some very fast and serious builds.

[RebekahsZ]

Vic-what do you mean by "won't cut it?"

[clarkspeed]

Please spend your money wisely.  Safety, reliability, and driving skill are more important than the latest suspension. Is your car safe enough? It must protect you so you can come back to the track again and again.  Is it reliable? Paying for 1-2 days of track is expensive and you don't want to be sitting on the side, or worse, on jack stands in the garage at home.  Professional driving instruction can cut many seconds off lap times and is much cheaper than a new suspension or engine. Just let a fast guy drive your car if you don't believe it.  Your initial goal should be getting the most quality track time, you can worry about go fast parts later when you damn sure what will help you.

[JMortensen]

I do already have a r200 longnose LSD.  

Have you added clutches? If not, you should. The stock R200 LSD out of the Z31T cars won't hold up to a lot of power. Nissan cheesed out on the clutch pack and added a big spacer in there and took out two of the clutches per side. The imported Japanese LSDs out of the R32 Skylines don't need this upgrade. Have a look at this thread, then see if Savage42 is still making clutches.

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/52029-adding-clutches-to-the-clsd-r200/

[Kenji]

Here is the thread on my build, its been a few years since I have updated it and worked on it.  I will need to up date it soon.

 

R200, great feedback, I haven't done anything to it yet.  That will be on the list of things to do.  Since I am not too deep into the suspension I am not opposed to putting in a different diff, R230 or R200 short.  I also don't mind having it rebuilt with better internals.

 

This thread is going a little off topic, I am trying to find out what is the best most up to date suspension that I can put on my car for Street, Auto X and road racing as a third priority.  I appreciate your concern for my driving Clarkspeed, but my driving is not what the thread is about or my concern at the moment.  For the record I am active in the San Diego BMW CCA and attend their driving schools and Auto X's.  I am a pretty good driver right now in my M5 and took 2nd in my class at the last Auto X on stock suspension and street PSS's.  This car is meant for fun and I am seeking the Hybrid Z forum for answers and advice on their experiences.  That being said, I really appreciate the input from everyone and would love to share the outcome as the build progresses.

[RebekahsZ]

Technotoystuning.com pretty well has everything you need. Visit their website. You can do as much or as little as you want, and you don't "need" their whole kit to go fast. I think they will let you send in your struts and they will section them for you, assemble each corner and send it back to you. I run their front LCAs, but they are overkill really. I haven't heard a single complaint from any of their stuff. If you have money to burn, you can probably consider them a 1-stop shop. Get camber playrs from TTY when you get the coilovers. But, you can do everything they sell yourself if you have time and are handy. I used to have more time than money, but that situation has kind of reversed itself. Use your R200 till you break it twice. Get TTT's front hub kit and chequered flag racing's rear stub axle kit with 39 splines and Z31 axle adapters.

[johnc]

Again, shocks, shocks, shocks.  Revalved Bilstein P30s are the cheapest good option, Koni 8610s are a better choice (IMHO), and then you can go with threaded body Bilstein P36s but that would take some more fabrication work.  

[clarkspeed]

Sorry for the general advice, but I will now give more. There is not a hell of a lot you can do with McPherson struts from the 70'S. Like Jon says, shocks are the only things that have advanced. Good alignment is required, and "trick" parts to solve any problems with achieving desired alignment (camber/caster/toe/bumpsteer/ride height)

[rnye]

I was in the same boat and pulled the trigger on TTT.  This is now my spare bedroom... Full suspension, front and rear brakes with ebrake, kaaz 2 way.  Go big or go home.

 

Edited January 8, 2015 by rnye

[Kenji]

I don't mind spending the money on the right parts the first time.  Maybe the topic wasn't clear, I want to purchase the right parts to set up my suspension.  This is taking into account the new parts available on the market now.  TTT does seem to be great parts but are they better engineered than Arizona Z car stuff?  The assumption is that I will be purchasing or making complete suspension, including camber plates, struts, hubs, axles, control arms and sway bars (read this as complete suspension).

[Phantom]

Which is better is a good question - unfortunately since no one has cars with both it ends up being kind of subjective.  AZC stuff works well, is made of lightweight aluminum and looks sexy.  That being said there is some question about the design and it is pricey.  TTT is all steel thus heavier but quite possibly a bit stronger.  I think it also is a bit less expensive.  In my mind one of the big advantages TTT has right now is that their rear brakes have an integrated parking brake which AZC does not.  Another thing about TTT is, if You're ordering a complete suspension/brake system from them talk with them and get them to powder coat it the color you want.  This stuff is made to order so there should be little to no cost difference.  Those AZC aluminum parts sure are pretty though.

[johnc]

Do you want the most recommended or the most used aftermarket performance suspension for the s30?  By far the most used is Koni or Tokico shocks in shortened strut tubes with welded on collar rings, aluminum threaded collars with adjustable lower spring perches, camber plates on top, and 2.5" springs.   In addition,  front and rear sway bars with poly bushings or spherical bearings.  That's it.  Stock control arms and lot of other stock parts.  A lot of lap records were set with that simple setup.

[clarkspeed]

Do you want the most recommended or the most used aftermarket performance suspension for the s30?  By far the most used is Koni or Tokico shocks in shortened strut tubes with welded on collar rings, aluminum threaded collars with adjustable lower spring perches, camber plates on top, and 2.5" springs.   In addition,  front and rear sway bars with poly bushings or spherical bearings.  That's it.  Stock control arms and lot of other stock parts.  A lot of lap records were set with that simple setup.

Yep, that's pretty much it.  Can be very effective in the hands of the right driver.

[260DET]

If you want to use off the shelf front struts, the Arizona stuff is pretty good. At least as a starting point. MCA suspension here are happy to use the Arizona gear as a base for their various racing options.

 

If you want advice on what poundage springs etc telling us your car's corner weights would be useful.

Edited January 16, 2015 by 260DET

[Kenji]

260DET, thank you!  I will hopefully know more soon.  I am finishing the build soonish... I say that because I am trying to spend the money in the right areas.  The car will have a full interior, of sort.  I am having all of the old door cards, and interior pieces made in aluminum and cover in alcantara.  The dash has been custom made and will get a RacePak gauge cluster.  Right now I am in the process of finding the right suspension components.