280zex Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 My Z developed a nasty shake in the front so I took my wheels in for a check-up and asked the shop for a dynamic balance on them. The shop informed me that the 2 front wheels were indeed out of balance badly.... I asked how this was possible sense I have only put 7500 miles on them, I got not viable answer. Maybe some one here can shed some light on this.. Wheels= Konig classic rewinds 15x8 Tires= Falken Z1EX 225x50x15 Traction rating=AA Temp rating=A Date of MFR=25th week of 2013 Country of Origin= Thailand Valve stems= full steel inserts with aluminum stem caps Lug nuts= steel acorn style hub studs= factory Nissan highest speed to date=140mph donuts=1 time Lock ups/skid=never full burn outs=never hard launch with wheel spin=yes/infrequent tires filled with air compressor to 30psi Tires were rotated after the first 4000 miles from date of purchase. R/R to L/F, L/R to R/F, both fronts direct to the rear with no cross over. I use an electric impact wrench to set the lug nuts and finish that with a torq wrench set at 85ft lbs with the vehicle on the ground. Wheel A has 19x7gram weights on the inside and 2x1.25(oz?) weights on the outside Wheel B has 8x7gram weights on the inside and 1x1.50(oz?) weight on the outside This seems to have a large disparity, any comments welcome.... Wheel A Wheel B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) That is a ton of weight. The only time I've ever seen that many weights is when I lost a wheel and it scrapped a chunk out of my wheel. They had to balance that out. I'm also surprised they are using both sticky weights and rim weights. What is the speed rating on those tires, and how soon after the 140mph run did you get the wobble? edit: There are also multiple types of falken ziex. Was it the 912's? Edited November 16, 2015 by BluDestiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Yes 912's The wobble appeared right after wheel rotation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Applied G forces measured with autometer D-pic acceleration gauge forward-1.98g Reverse-1.75g lateral-1.44 Scale weight with driver and 1/2 tank fuel is 2880lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 I only held the high speed, 140mph, for 1 minute. my speedo is the autometer programable electronic unit. Trans is from early 240sx with magnetic pulse sender. As far as i can measure, the speedo is dead accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 To clairify, the now front wheels and new balance were on the rear during the 140mph run. I did not have any issues during the high speed run. Nor did the vehicle have a wobble. Smooth as glass she was. Nasty wobble appeared after wheel rotation. The rear wheels only have 4x7gram weights each as of today. Nor did they need any further adjustment. They were on the front during the high speed run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1969honda Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Have them try breaking the bead on the tire with the most weight, rotate tire on rim 180 and balance again. When I worked for a tire shop we did this frequently if a tire took over more than 1.75-2.0 ounces per side to balance out, usually dropped the required weight into that range. If your not afraid of the clip on weights being used, use them. I've seen the stick on weights peel off after a few days or a good burn out, especially if they didn't clean the wheel with alcohol or some type of solvent to get any road grime or brake dust off. The other issue with the stick on weights on the inside, from my experience, if you don't have the weight all the way out on the edge of the rim face like the clip-ons do, it doesn't balance out quite the same (takes more weight). I've also seen where brand new wheels we swapped tires around trying to get a set balanced out and it just ended up being that one rim had a heavy spot in it, spun true on the balance machined but no matter which of the 4 tires we mounted from the set it took over 2 ounces per side to balance it out. The other three all balanced out with .5-1.25 ounces total weight. Another thing might be a belt slipped in your tire, it happens from time to time. This can cause a vibration or even a lateral pull in the alignment.. Edited November 16, 2015 by 1969honda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 You can still have tires that shake even after balancing.. Did they do a road force variation check??. It tells you if the tire and or the rim is out of specs. Machine will also show what the road force will be if the tire is broken down and placed on the rim in different spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper9182 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I've had a rotor disk be out, changed rims and tire before I figured it out. Just a thought. It's mass spinning that rotates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 I pulled out my dial indacator and checked everything for center. It all checks out. I am going to take all wheels to a shop that has the right equiptment to check the wheels and tires correctly. At this point I just cant tell what the issue is yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATA Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Warped rotor due to over torque at tire rotation ? my dos centavos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Update: I took the 2 front wheels to a shop and had the weights removed along with the tires for inspection and re-balance. NO problems were found....wheels were re-balanced. I did some research on Nissan spec lug nut torque. The information I found said from 58 to 72 ft lbs +/- 5 ft lbs. I re-torqued all 4 wheels to 72 ft lbs. I still have a slight shimmy in the steering wheel at all speeds over 30 mph..... My next step is to remove the front hubs and dis-assemble the rotors and have them inspected for warpage/run out. I might just tear the front suspension apart and check everything, just to be safe...... wheel A now re-balanced Wheel B now re-balanced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimO Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Old worn out ball joints (and other front suspension bushings) will accentuate an out of balance condition. Ask me how I know!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 All front end components only have 7000 miles on them. Everything was replaced with new parts. I have the TTT adjustable lower control arms and TC rods, all with new heim joints. I removed the entire front suspention components, hubs and rotors. Currently replacing ball joints as the rubber boots were torn up a bit. A local machine shop has my front hubs and rotors. They are checking for any possible warping. I also found a bad u-joint, so that shop is also replacing all of them. Then its off to the alignment shop.... I am starting to believe that I would have been better off buying that Ferrari 308 instead of my Z for the amount of $$$$$$$$$ in maintainance and repair.... To date I am into my Z about 64,000$ with 28,000 miles driven. Its only money :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yes 912's The wobble appeared right after wheel rotation Did you try rotating the wheels back to where they started? Did you rotate the wheels or did a shop? Going back to square one would tell if it's the wheels or the front end parts, or if something got damaged. Another thing people do is to put on a different set of wheels. If you have them available. A couple of spare tires on the front end might be informative. Might be too late, since you've already torn things apart, but if you end up in the same dilemma in the future, worth a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) If it makes you feel any better, I too am trying to track down a nasty shimmy at 45+ mph. I already replaced both ball joints, and then those were replaced with the T3 GTX2 control arms, checked the steering rack, outer tie rods, I have new front discs, wheels have been re-balanced twice, no play in the hub, etc. It is driving me nuts. The only thing that may still be a possibility is the wheel seating itself. I have Rota Grid Off Roads which are hub centric and our cars use lug centric wheels. I try my best to make sure the wheels are "centered" while installing the acorn lug nuts by incrementally tightening each one before really tightening them prior to dropping the car. It could be that I am not getting it truly centered. This could be your problem as well. Edited November 25, 2015 by ktm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatnow123 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) It's 100% the tires. Falkens aren't great tires at all I found out. Had them on my truck (285/60/18's) and had steering shake, had them balanced, road forced balanced and it smoothed it out quite a bit but it wasn't until 5k or so until it was finally completely gone. . I reluctantly bought them again for the Z as it was all they had in stock in that size, wanted to drive my Z and thought it was just a fluke due to the large size tire on my truck. Did the same thing, had them dynamically balanced then road force and that corrected 99% of it, but I can still feel it slightly on certain roads. I will never ever put falken tires (at least on the front) on anything again. BTW, I put yokohama's on the truck and it's perfect, smooth as glass! I will put those on the Z once I burn up the falkens Edited November 25, 2015 by whatnow123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 I have to wait on parts.....Holidays and all.... I will not know anything until this saturday if Im lucky.... I will be re-rotating the tires back to their original position and see what happens..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inline6 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) I chased shimmy problems in my Z on and off for several years (shimmy was always there, but efforts to find it were "on and off" ). I replaced tires, wheels and tires, rebalanced several times, new compression rod bushings, new inner control arm bushings... I even rebuilt a good steering rack with all new factory parts including new inner and outer tie rod ends. Still had the problem. I even messed up said rebuilt rack because the rack gear and pinion wore at dead center because of the continued shimmy, before I found the problem. In the end, I replaced the only components that hadn't been replaced... the lower ball joints. I hadn't replaced them before then because they were the newest parts on the front end when I bought the car. And sure enough, they were the problem. They were aftermarket. Even though the boots were good and the outside of the joints looked fairly new, the joints had worn. I put new OEM joints on and haven't had a shimmy since. And by the way - for some reason that speed range ~45 is tell tale. If your shimmy goes away again at 50 or 55 and you are smooth above that - I would suspect the ball joints big time. G Edited November 26, 2015 by inline6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. I do believe inline6 got it right. Even tho the ball joint boots were only dry cracked, not blown out, they were indeed bad. Strange that they went bad with only about 7000 miles, but they were not OEM. So there is that. I did a lot of poking and prodding around underneath the Z, found a few things that needed repair besides the ball joints. While the front end is apart I need to replace the strut dust boots. Time to bust out the spring compressor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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