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Rear spindle pin bushing

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I called Prothane and got tech support.  They insist the outer sleeve stays in.  Oh well...I will attempt it I guess.

 

 

45 minutes ago, cgsheen said:

You should, the original outer metal piece of the stock bushing has to come out to fit either Prothane or Energy poly bushings. I've done several in the shop - it has to come out. I installed Energy poly in my personal 260Z (Goldie) nearly 10 years ago (and, yes, I cut that barrel out - with a sawzall (but, I'm careful) and, I daily drive my car)).

 

Please don't hit that with a hammer anymore. 

This conflicting info is a real bummer.  I wonder why MSA is saying this?  They have used Prothane exclusively.

 

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8 minutes ago, adivin said:

I called Prothane and got tech support.  They insist the outer sleeve stays in.  Oh well...I will attempt it I guess.

 

Is the edge of the bushing tapered?  How will you get it started?

 

It will be interesting to see how the spindle pin fits through the compressed hole after it's installed.  Does the pin fit the hole when the bushing is out?

 

Don't overlook that many of the bushings have polyurethane replacement options just because they can.  Not necessarily because they're better.  The rubber that's in the original bushing is very thin and probably sees little deflection under use.  The thicker PU bushing might even deflect more than stock rubber under load.  Less metal, more elastic material with PU.

Edited by NewZed

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19 minutes ago, NewZed said:

 

Is the edge of the bushing tapered?  How will you get it started?

 

It will be interesting to see how the spindle pin fits through the compressed hole after it's installed.  Does the pin fit the hole when the bushing is out?

 

Don't overlook that many of the bushings have polyurethane replacement options just because they can.  Not necessarily because they're better.  The rubber that's in the original bushing is very thin and probably sees little deflection under use.  The thicker PU bushing might even deflect more than stock rubber under load.  Less metal, more elastic material with PU.

The edge of the bushing is not tapered.  I have no idea how I will get it started other than grease and a vice.

Yes, the pin does fit through the inner sleeve of the bushing with it out.  It damn well better.

 

It's hard to believe this is so mysterious.

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On 9/3/2020 at 3:13 PM, adivin said:

I called Prothane and got tech support.  They insist the outer sleeve stays in.  Oh well...I will attempt it I guess.

 

 

This conflicting info is a real bummer.  I wonder why MSA is saying this?  They have used Prothane exclusively.

 

 

Good luck with that...

 

When you get yours in, send me a picture. I'll send you a picture of mine.

 

Edited by cgsheen

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50 minutes ago, cgsheen said:

 

Good luck with that...

 

When you get yours in, send me a picture. I'll send you a picture of mine.

 

I think you're trying to tell me to cut that sleeve out.  Honestly, I really don't see that bushing going in with that sleeve.  

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Searching old posts will set you free. Do a search and then read posts in reverse order. Why because most 240z issues were resolved almost twenty years ago. Think of HybridZ as an encyclopedia. Turn the page......................

 

 

 

 

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Just because many people did it that way does not mean that that is what Prothane intended.  The material is elastic so will compress to fit in to the old sleeve.  

 

What's really needed here is the guy that designed the bushing.  Maybe he's still out there somewhere.

 

As far as MSA goes, I think that they are just passing on what Prothane told them, or even just what the written instructions say.  

Edited by NewZed

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41 minutes ago, Miles said:

Searching old posts will set you free. Do a search and then read posts in reverse order. Why because most 240z issues were resolved almost twenty years ago. Think of HybridZ as an encyclopedia. Turn the page......................

 

Archives rule!

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7 minutes ago, NewZed said:

"Buy" a video from a carburetor rebuilder to learn how to install aftermarket suspension bushings?  Seems wrong...

 

Wrong? How so?

 

The original owners of Ztherapy were Z car freaks.

Edited by Miles

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The video should be on MSA or Prothane's site.  Not ZTherapy's.  And why do you have to buy the video?  Why would the guys at ZTherpay be experts on installing Prothane bushings?  The video is about "Hyperthane" from Energy Suspension.

 

I'll bet they just show a guy burning and hack-sawing.

 

p.s.  I'm not really arguing about anything.  I just find it really amusing when companies make it difficult to use the parts they sell.  It's not rational.   Frustrated customers are not good.

 

image.png.b0bb50b9449e5ebca8c41563b690a384.png

Edited by NewZed

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4 hours ago, NewZed said:

Just because many people did it that way does not mean that that is what Prothane intended.  The material is elastic so will compress to fit in to the old sleeve.  

 

What's really needed here is the guy that designed the bushing.  Maybe he's still out there somewhere.

 

As far as MSA goes, I think that they are just passing on what Prothane told them, or even just what the written instructions say.  

Ok, many people have done it by removing the outer sleeve.  Are you playing devil's advocate here, or have you actually done this job and installed the urethane bushings with the sleeve in?  I doubt it is possible from what I am seeing and reading.  I want to hear from someone who has done it.

 

I cut the outer sleeves out today based on what my eyes were telling me and reading several post from people who have dealt with this issue previously.  I can't find one post from someone who has done this with the outer sleeves in.  If this is the case, it is very frustrating not to be able to rely on the info from the seller and manufacturer.  After all these years they haven't bothered to verify and update the instructions!

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2 minutes ago, adivin said:

Ok, many people have done it by removing the outer sleeve.  Are you playing devil's advocate here, or have you actually done this job and installed the urethane bushings with the sleeve in? 

 

I did all of the bushings except that one.  As I said earlier I couldn't find a reason to replace the rubber ones that were still in good shape on my car.

 

The problem with making the bushing easy to install by removing the sleeve is that it will be looser than if you stuff it in to the old sleeve.  As ZTherapy implies that bushing sees a lot of force.  Under power it gets compressed and twisted allowing the wheel to toe in as it tries to push the car.  And since the urethane is not bonded to the steel like the rubber is it might slip and move even more.  There is a lot of hype in all aftermarket parts.  It's the nature of the business, convincing people that what they have isn't good enough.

 

I have no idea what the guy who designed that bushing was thinking.  I'm just pointing out that the way that everyone has been doing it is counter to the instructions, and that it gives a bushing that is looser than if it done the way they describe it should be done.  I guess that is the devil's advocate's role.

 

I agree that it's ridiculous for them to just keep saying the words when it would be so easy to just show how it's done.  

 

https://prothane.com/about/

 

image.png.54d6736e3de1b1b890a271a23fce2113.png

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5 hours ago, Miles said:

Miles, thanks for sending these links.  Seems like the outer sleeve has to come out despite instructions to the contrary.  I can't find any post from someone with first hand experience who even tried to put the bushings in with the outer sleeve.

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36 minutes ago, adivin said:

Miles, thanks for sending these links.  Seems like the outer sleeve has to come out despite instructions to the contrary.  I can't find any post from someone with first hand experience who even tried to put the bushings in with the outer sleeve.

 

I did mine 14 years ago and experienced the same confusion. I bought a spindle pin puller from an Hybridz member and then did the whole suspension.  The only sleeves I didn't remove were  for the mustache bar bushings.

 

Some of the best posts about bushing replacement were made back in the early days of HybridZ.  

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5 minutes ago, Miles said:

 

I did mine 14 years ago and experienced the same confusion. I bought a spindle pin puller from an Hybridz member and then did the whole suspension.  The only sleeves I didn't remove were  for the mustache bar bushings.

 

Some of the best posts about bushing replacement were made back in the early days of HybridZ.  

 

Was the fitment good with your spindle bushings?  Tight enough fit?  I see that MSA can still get the OEM rubber spindle pin bushings.  Something to think about.

How did you like going to urethane over stock bushings in general?

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6 hours ago, adivin said:

 

Was the fitment good with your spindle bushings?  Tight enough fit?  I see that MSA can still get the OEM rubber spindle pin bushings.  Something to think about.

How did you like going to urethane over stock bushings in general?

Never read or seen bushing that utilized the original shells. You can’t go wrong whatever bushing you choose . I’ve been running urethane for years . Not sure if there’s much handling benefit of running urethane on the outer bushings of rear control arms . I do believe that there is sometimes some interference with the urethane flange between the strut housing and the control arms . The faces of the strut housing sometimes can be a little rough and might need to be cleaned up so the bushing flange sits square against / between the two. 
I just finished removing those shells the other day . It’s a battle . Take your time . Cut a slice out of the shell and then they should come out . Sometimes you think you’ve cut all the way thru and you haven’t . 

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