Ironhead Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 I am currently building an R200V from a 300zx with a lot of changes, including OSG limited slip with Skyline GTR 6-bolt axle stubs and a 4.636 ring/pinion. So far everything is going swimmingly, except that with all the swapped out parts there is no way the original shims are going to work. At a minimum, I am going to need new pinion height shims and new pinion bearing pre-load shims. No sure yet about the side bearing shims. The problem is that all my inquiries into these parts have been returned "no longer available". How are people handling this? Is there a source I am missing? Or is it just a matter of junkyard scrounging and tearing apart a lot of diffs hoping to get lucky? Has anyone used generic machine shims from the general industrial hardware market (McMaster-Carr)? Any advice appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhead Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 Thanks to all who offered advice...LOL...but nevermind I think I have it figured out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I think that nobody offered advice...LOL... because nobody does what you're doing. Plus it doesn't make sense. You're not "building" a viscous LSD, you're using a housing that held a viscous LSD. You could have used an open diff housing and installed an OS Giken LSD in to it. Just saying...LOL... that you didn't get advice because you didn't really describe well what you were trying to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Newzed I understood he is looking for shims and they NLA NO LONGER AVAILABLE whats not to understand? You could buy shimstock in various sizes from any decent auto parts store it comes in variety of thickness's just have to make it and cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 It was the LOL's... Why didn't you respond, if you understood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 4 hours ago, NewZed said: It was the LOL's... Why didn't you respond, if you understood? Oh my ...... your really something ! I responded when I saw it. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhead Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 9 hours ago, NewZed said: I think that nobody offered advice...LOL... because nobody does what you're doing. Plus it doesn't make sense. You're not "building" a viscous LSD, you're using a housing that held a viscous LSD. You could have used an open diff housing and installed an OS Giken LSD in to it. Just saying...LOL... that you didn't get advice because you didn't really describe well what you were trying to do. I just re-read what I wrote in the first post Zed....and I honestly don't see how I could make it any more clear what I was asking for..... You absolutely need certain shims to set up the bearing tension and ring/pinion interface in a differential. How was that not clear? Since these parts are "NLA"....and since people on this forum (probably thousands) must have confronted this as they worked on Nissan differentials...I just hoped someone here had a workaround. I realize now I was "wrong"....but I must say the request still seems clear to me. Softopz....thank you for the suggestion...that is one of the approaches I am going to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Edited. Sorry folks. I guess I've been spoiled because of the general high level of the site when I joined. It's not the same now. If you did figure it out, why didn't you share the solution? You've already discovered that it's a problem. That's really what the forums are for. Edited November 1, 2017 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Tech Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 now now children, lets just all move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) That is a fairly low ratio, what is it going behind? You can look up master lists of the parts and order the needed shim from places like courtesy nissan I believe. Small dealerships may not carry stock or can't be bothered to lookup the part in the warehouse. Most people in the 240sx community just recycle old shims. Assuming the center is the same size the shims are set for side to side play so using the ones that came with the differential is usually a good starting point. Certain aftermarket center sections also come with a variety of shims, might be worth looking that up. Local diff shops also carry shims in master kits. Last, a machine shop should be able to make you shims if you really need an odd size. Edited November 1, 2017 by seattlejester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhead Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 5 hours ago, NewZed said: Edited. Sorry folks. I guess I've been spoiled because of the general high level of the site when I joined. It's not the same now. If you did figure it out, why didn't you share the solution? You've already discovered that it's a problem. That's really what the forums are for. Sorry if my question/wording/presence here somehow fails to live up to your expectations. Not sure what else to say about that. As far as sharing my solution, all I did was to bribe a hoarder buddy with beer, dig through his leftover shims, and through pure luck found a pinion pre-load shim that will work for me. I didn't think posting that would add much to the forum, frankly. 4 hours ago, G-Tech said: now now children, lets just all move on Agreed. 2 hours ago, seattlejester said: That is a fairly low ratio, what is it going behind? You can look up master lists of the parts and order the needed shim from places like courtesy nissan I believe. Small dealerships may not carry stock or can't be bothered to lookup the part in the warehouse. Most people in the 240sx community just recycle old shims. Assuming the center is the same size the shims are set for side to side play so using the ones that came with the differential is usually a good starting point. Certain aftermarket center sections also come with a variety of shims, might be worth looking that up. Local diff shops also carry shims in master kits. Last, a machine shop should be able to make you shims if you really need an odd size. I have been pondering the ratio choice also, Jester. It is going behind a T56 on an LS3 powered track car. According to my calculations with the T56 gearing and the tires I will be using the car should redline in 6th at 166 MPH....and 3000 RPM in 6th gear should give me 77 MPH. It definitely is not gearing that will promote relaxed freeway cruising, but that isn't really my goal for the car. I would welcome any experience/input for sure though. I have a 4.375 R/P also...as well as the stock 4.08 that came in the diff. As far as availability, I perused the internet and the shim sizes I needed showed up "NLA" on the big Nissan parts websites. In fact all the pinion pre-load and pinion height shims showed "NLA". It does look like the carrier bearing shims are still available, however. My current challenge is setting up the pinion gear height....as the 4.636 pinion is much smaller (shorter) than the 4.08 that came with the diff. So much shorter in fact, that if the "original" pinion gear height shim from the diff is used, the driveshaft flange will bottom out on the pinion shaft while the bearings are still loose. To sort that out, I'm certain your other shim source suggestions will come in very handy. Thanks much for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 It really depends on what you plan with it. Is top speed your game? Cruising? Autocross? Might be worth doing the numbers to see what would work well. The T56 has a really low number for 6th gear of 0.5, probably one of the reasons the cars got decent gas mileage. Engine Speed (RPM) MPH 4.08 Gear MPH 4.375 Gear MPH 4.636 Gear 8000 RPM 280.00 MPH 261.12 MPH 246.42 MPH 7500 RPM 262.50 MPH 244.80 MPH 231.02 MPH 7000 RPM 245.00 MPH 228.48 MPH 215.62 MPH 6500 RPM 227.50 MPH 212.16 MPH 200.22 MPH 6000 RPM 210.00 MPH 195.84 MPH 184.81 MPH 5500 RPM 192.50 MPH 179.52 MPH 169.41 MPH 5000 RPM 175.00 MPH 163.20 MPH 154.01 MPH 4500 RPM 157.50 MPH 146.88 MPH 138.61 MPH 4000 RPM 140.00 MPH 130.56 MPH 123.21 MPH 3500 RPM 122.50 MPH 114.24 MPH 107.81 MPH 3000 RPM 105.00 MPH 97.92 MPH 92.41 MPH 2500 RPM 87.50 MPH 81.60 MPH 77.01 MPH 2000 RPM 70.00 MPH 65.28 MPH 61.60 MPH 1500 RPM 52.50 MPH 48.96 MPH 46.20 MPH 1000 RPM 35.00 MPH 32.64 MPH 30.80 MPH That is the chart a calculator spit out on me for 6th gear with the different final drives. 70mph in 6th at 2k rpm sounds heavenly for cruising with the 4.08. Up to you to run the numbers to see if the speed/gears are right for the application. Not sure what to say regarding the spacers. I was told certain parts were NLA and I found them on eBay, or going direct to a dealership and talking to the parts guy he helped find the diagram and pulled up the list for some small parts. A differential shop might have an old shim kit they can use. https://www.z1motorsports.com/rear-differential/nissan/oem-rear-differential-shim-p-6146.html shows a couple side spacers in stock. I know some of the drifter guys used to save the shims from differentials they broke so they had stacks of shims to play with. If you get desperate you could pull a JY diff of any of that era and have the thicker spacer machined down? Might be worth doing the measurement and figuring out exactly what you need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhead Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 28 minutes ago, seattlejester said: It really depends on what you plan with it. Is top speed your game? Cruising? Autocross? Might be worth doing the numbers to see what would work well. The T56 has a really low number for 6th gear of 0.5, probably one of the reasons the cars got decent gas mileage. Engine Speed (RPM) MPH 4.08 Gear MPH 4.375 Gear MPH 4.636 Gear 8000 RPM 280.00 MPH 261.12 MPH 246.42 MPH 7500 RPM 262.50 MPH 244.80 MPH 231.02 MPH 7000 RPM 245.00 MPH 228.48 MPH 215.62 MPH 6500 RPM 227.50 MPH 212.16 MPH 200.22 MPH 6000 RPM 210.00 MPH 195.84 MPH 184.81 MPH 5500 RPM 192.50 MPH 179.52 MPH 169.41 MPH 5000 RPM 175.00 MPH 163.20 MPH 154.01 MPH 4500 RPM 157.50 MPH 146.88 MPH 138.61 MPH 4000 RPM 140.00 MPH 130.56 MPH 123.21 MPH 3500 RPM 122.50 MPH 114.24 MPH 107.81 MPH 3000 RPM 105.00 MPH 97.92 MPH 92.41 MPH 2500 RPM 87.50 MPH 81.60 MPH 77.01 MPH 2000 RPM 70.00 MPH 65.28 MPH 61.60 MPH 1500 RPM 52.50 MPH 48.96 MPH 46.20 MPH 1000 RPM 35.00 MPH 32.64 MPH 30.80 MPH That is the chart a calculator spit out on me for 6th gear with the different final drives. 70mph in 6th at 2k rpm sounds heavenly for cruising with the 4.08. Up to you to run the numbers to see if the speed/gears are right for the application. Not sure what to say regarding the spacers. I was told certain parts were NLA and I found them on eBay, or going direct to a dealership and talking to the parts guy he helped find the diagram and pulled up the list for some small parts. A differential shop might have an old shim kit they can use. https://www.z1motorsports.com/rear-differential/nissan/oem-rear-differential-shim-p-6146.html shows a couple side spacers in stock. I know some of the drifter guys used to save the shims from differentials they broke so they had stacks of shims to play with. If you get desperate you could pull a JY diff of any of that era and have the thicker spacer machined down? Might be worth doing the measurement and figuring out exactly what you need? I'm going with the T56 with a .64 ratio 6th gear, which brings top speed (6500 redline) down to 166 or thereabouts with the 4.636 final drive. Otherwise the chart I used gave about the same results as yours. This will be strictly a track-day type car....very little street driving....and my goal was simply to gear it for most flexibility within the speed range I am likely to use on track (roughly 40-140 MPH). My current track car has a 5-speed and a very peaky engine, but with its current gearing I never use 5th gear at all on track, while I would benefit from more gears as it only makes good power from 5000-7500 RPM. While I know an LS3 will have a much wider power band, I am just trying to make use of all the gears and have no need for a OD gear to stuff it into for freeway cruising at 2000 RPM. More good advice on shims...I am ordering an assortment of these https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-shims/=1a2k2tb in 35mm ID just to stack to figure out the correct pinion height, then see if I can find a "proper" Nissan shim once I know the size I need....although I cannot think of any good reason why I shouldn't just leave the McMaster-Carr shims in there permanently. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winstonusmc Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I am doing this ratio as well. You have to have a lot of spacing on the pinion to get it to work right. I bought arbor shims from Amazon at a diameter of 2.75 inches and added them to the original shim. I don't have it in front of me, but I am pretty sure I added about 3mm of shims before I got close enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhead Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 2 hours ago, winstonusmc said: I am doing this ratio as well. You have to have a lot of spacing on the pinion to get it to work right. I bought arbor shims from Amazon at a diameter of 2.75 inches and added them to the original shim. I don't have it in front of me, but I am pretty sure I added about 3mm of shims before I got close enough. Good to hear....I am not clear how the 4.6 ring and pinion was used in its OEM application, because it needs more shimming than would be met by any of the Nissan shims I can find part numbers for...if that makes sense. I think most of these 4.636, 51/11 R/Ps came from the front of Nissan Pathfinders....but the parts diagrams don't list any particularly thick shims, so I assume the front diff case was just different in terms of spacing. By my calculations....I am going to use 5.32mm ...total...shims as a starting point. Thanks for the input....good to know we came to the same conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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