Ford Super 8.8 irs swap thread. Rear brakes too

[Invincibleextremes]

Minor improvements for v3, namely the ability to jump from 2015 to 2014 brakes and back as needed.  Also tabbed a few spots to keep it from moving around too much during welding etc.

 

David still rocking v1 in his 800hp car without issues half a year later.

[Invincibleextremes]

Shown here is the optional crossmember used to create clearance for the pinion without having to notch the factory one.  Both are viable options and I recommend tying in the verticals for maximum strength regardless.

[fusion]

When this was installed in David's or anyone's car, was the pinion angle measured?  How can it be adjusted if need be?

[Invincibleextremes]

Pinion angle was measured and it came out to be a couple degrees.  This is why the crossmember needed to be notched, otherwise the pinion angle will be too much.

 

Another option would be to cut the body of the datsun similar to an r230 swap and tuck the diff itself higher on relation to the car.

 

This would require moving the rear plate down on the cradle and tacking up in a new location.

 

Would also require breaking a couple tacks on the front mounts and matching the angle of the diff or at least the location.

 

Most people don't need that since it's a tight fit, but works as is.  And most aren't interested in cutting up ththe body of the car itself either.

[fusion]

Thank you.  I am in the process of building a 5.3/turbo 280z and I am very interested in using a super 8.8 diff.  I am going to install the engine/trans soon and fabricating all the mounts.  I want to mount the engine/trans at a downward angle that is equal/opposite to the pinion angle, especially since changing the diff pinion angle seems much less straightforward than a solid axle.  So when using your kit, the pinion angle is -2*?  Also, how much lower is the pinion flange than the transmission output shaft?

 

Also, I am very interested in raising the diff up higher into the body, to gain ground clearance for exhaust routing.  Could you highlight in pictures or a diagram of how this would be accomplished and how much clearance could be gained?  I would be willing to cut the body depending on what is gained.  

 

Thanks

 

 

[Invincibleextremes]

Pictures coming back from various cars with the setup.

[fusion]

Thanks for the pictures.  Can you also comment on my questions above?

 

Thanks

[Invincibleextremes]

Raising the diff up can be done, but you're going to have to notch the frame rail above it.  Plus you'll run out of room unless you plan on getting rid of the factory parking brake assembly.

 

 

[BLKMGK]

My poor 240Z has been sitting on jackstands for YEARS! I snapped a pile of U-joints in the old original axles, swapped to the VLSD R200 and the gearing sucked plus I was worried about getting stranded again, and basically parked the car hoping for a solution to show up. Every so often I do a search and while I've seen some "solutions" over the years they often required giving up parking brake, or using brakes with no dust seals, crazy expensive custom coil-overs, cut down rotors, and on and on. I even purchased two different R230 pumpkins (truck and TT) to try and get a solution with the gearing I need but got screwed by the gear shop who "lost" my parts, I stopped following up when I began hearing about sheared shafts in the pumpkin. Sunk money into billet stubs too and then sold them off when I decided I wanted nothing to do with the old stock stuff. Pulled the motor and trans out of my car and then just lost interest knowing that no matter what I dropped in I'd be worried about snapping an axle or having awful gearing.

Finally it looks like there might be a solution! I'll admit the newer "8.8" isn't something I knew anything about but it sounds like complete overkill - I like it! Being able to use 2015 OEM brakes, bearings, and wow a PARKING BRAKE is icing on the cake. Color me interested for sure! I'm still not 100% clear on install and exactly what's needed from me and what you provide, a break down would be helpful. Are you assembling axles? It looks like you've got custom shafts being made but that we can also use some form of stock shaft? OEM CVs from a far heavier cheap car sound good to me too. Do you have a set of install instructions you can share? I've seen the videos of David's car but it's tough to see exactly what is going on. I gather we need an R200 moustache bar? What exactly is being clearanced and what brackets must be in the car or removed? What are folks doing for parking cables? Rear coilovers are Neon, is that true? I have FOX "Cobra" wheels on my car, 5lug 17s, will these still fit? I think the lugs are spaced correctly. Brakes ought to fit I think. Is the track modified? 

 

My "plan" has been to take the 2JZ out of my wrecked Supra and drop it into the 240Z, hopefully with the 6spd. I have an old aluminum fuel cell in the car now so no spare tire hump. looks like David did too so I expect no clearance issues but I'd love to know which cell he's using. A 3.15 gear would work well for this swap if the 6spd fits. An LS is also attractive. Lots of options if the rear end holds together  Are you doing anything for the front? I seem to recall you had mentioned somewhere fitting later model Mustang brakes up there too? Apex has a front-end setup that also can include mounts for a 2JZ but I'm curious. Rear must get fitted first.. I'll reach out   Thanks for doing this man!

[Invincibleextremes]

Here's the thread involving the front end swap using 2014 mustang spindles and the front coilovers off the neon.

 

This allows you to buy a complete set of neon coilovers and use them.  Takes a few mods to make it work up front but it's straightforward.

 

To summarize the rear end setup and answer a couple questions I'll post some key points.

 

The bracket in the way is on the left side of the trans tunnel in the back, it's not part of the parking brake assembly so I can only assume it's for the factory exhaust.

 

Factory mustang track width is 64 inches...  therefore the axles cannot be used as is.  But the shafts needed use factory v8 cv parts so wear items are a non issue.

 

This setup converts to 5 lug, but retains factory track width of 53 inches.

 

Works with 2014 mustang or 2015 mustang brakes.  Both readily available and dirt cheap.  Dust shields for the rear will need work because the factory 2015 hubs are used but obviously not the spindles.

 

About the custom shafts... to date, there have been no less than 40 shafts purchased and delivered to people.

 

Only thing custom about them is the length, so you don't need to go through me to get custom shafts in the future.  Granted your prices may vary but you can send a pair of v8 axles to any reputable axle maker and ask for shafts to fit your needed application.

 

Also, custom high hp axles are available that are advertised to 800hp and 2,000hp.  I've contacted them and asked if custom lengths are an option and they are happy to provide them.

 

Most people opt for the DIY version of the kit, they get hardware and cradle and two uprights that are all tacked together but unfinished.

 

They then finish the kit and add whatever custom touches they want.

 

Yes it's designed around an r200 mustache bar but you can just as easily weld on tubing and use bushings to avoid paying for an r200 mustache bar... Noah literally did exactly that.

 

 

[BLKMGK]

I've got an R200 bar in there now with a fancy billet piece and whatnot heh so I'm covered for that. I'll shoot you a PM and try to sort what I need, costing, etc. Nice to see this working with newer Mustang stuff for sure. A stronger diff, good brakes, and if the struts don't require tons of tweaking that rocks. I've already got parts on the car that if I needed to replace them I'd have to have it towed home and fab crap - that's not cool. the more parts store stock stuff the better. I don't care what manufacturer it comes from either as I'll drop a Toyota or GM engine in it anyway  Getting this part sorted clears the way for the rest and get me excited. Nothing worse than building a car happy as can be and then breaking axles leaving you stranded a few times to kill enthusiasm!

 

Once the rear is figured out I'll sort the front, Apex has a subframe that will allow for a JZ or I could have the JZ mount I have welded in - a fabricator I'm not sadly so a subframe swap is attractive. I've got a 911 I need to get running too so this project will be glacial overall 😔

[Invincibleextremes]

Catching up on everyone's kits as fast as I can, here's what the complete cradle looks like with the optional crossmember.  Snapped the picture before we bolted it back into Kyle's v12 datsun project. 

[Invincibleextremes]

 

How to disassemble the cv axles to replace the shaft.  As you can see it only takes a couple minutes.

 

Here's another thing I've come across... I buy the donor cv axles in bulk from Shelby America.  Half of them are unusable pairs because they're gt350 axles that have the left shaft with a different cv and shaft... meaning the custom shafts won't work in that axle.

 

Some guys have stumbled across this and now have a gt350 left shaft just hanging out after purchasing another left shaft off the 2015-2017 v8 cars or 2018 and newer v8 automatic transmission cars.

 

I'm going to to contact some companies and see if they can continue the splines and hack the extra length off of half of my growing pile of gt350 axles.  Thereby converting left inner stub shafts into right ones, making a complete donor pair that would utilize the stronger larger cv joints from the gt350 left axle.

 

This will accomplish two things.

 

1.  Gt350 left shafts can be shortened unlike the right side, or the hollow standard v8 shafts.  For guys not pushing the hp limits this opens up a very economical option for guys doing the swap who can then enjoy silky smooth 8 ball cv axles.  No idea what the theoretical limit of cut down gt350 shafts will be, but they are substantially stronger than the solid shaft found in explorers, and that's not even comparing the cv itself. 

 

2. The gt350 cv joints themselves are substantially stronger than the regular v8 cv joints currently used for the swap... which themselves are no slouch.  I can have batches made of the larger diameter custom shafts to fit those larger joints... and at a price point for a usable pair of axles that still don't come up to the price of custom length DSS race axles.

 

This layered approach drives the cost of the swap even lower while substantially increasing the hp potential for pennies on the dollar for guys who want the peace of mind of the bigger diameter hardened shafts and bigger cv joints.

 

Another option would be to get a pair of gt350 left axles cut and splined to the smaller v8 inner cv specs and run gt350 cv joints on the outboard side and regular v8 differential stub shafts.  This again would be very economical since i buy the axles in bulk.

[Invincibleextremes]

Got a few pictures of another install.

[Invincibleextremes]

 

 

Video of Andrew's 900hp supercharged v8 datsun hooking up and surprising a nitrous straight pipe fox body which had problems hooking up on this surface.

 

Couple pics of a different customers install I did over the weekend.  

 

Something I wanted to point out... the axles for this swap are readily available, extremely strong and VERY affordable.  The custom length shafts use common OEM v8 mustang cv donors.  

 

I'm pointing this out specifically because I've run across several people who've reached out to me because they had been burned on the axle situation from other companies.  One had broken no less than half a dozen axles at 500hp, and is now using the super 8.8 and the axles I provided without issue at 700hp on a turbo 2jz.

 

The other is someone who asked me to solve his axle problem because he has the weaker 31 spline (vs 34 spline super 8.8) explorer 8.8 and the company supplied him with shafts specifically designed around autozone axles that have since then undergone a design change, leaving him without usable axles for his swap.  Mustang gt cv axles do not interchange with explorer oem axles, nevermind the aftermarket ones, so there's nothing I could do about his problem.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Invincibleextremes
Spelling

[Invincibleextremes]

Version 5 has some updates that allow it to be welded better.  The tabs are all half the height of the slots.  There has also been a lot of weight shed that doesn't compromise the strength this setup is known for.

 

Showing version 5 may not mean much since this entire batch is spoken for and I'm already brewing ideas to improve version 6 with, but it's all part of the story and everyone's feedback is very appreciated and taken seriously.

[Invincibleextremes]

More pics from guys doing builds.

[Invincibleextremes]

Back to the grind.  Version 5 with it's sunk tabs makes for easy welding.  Version 6 ordered from the laser cutters and on it's way, it's substantially lighter while giving up nothing in strength.  Will post pics with updates.

[Invincibleextremes]

Grinding along.

[Invincibleextremes]

Version 6.