Building MS2 V3 Board

[gmorrone1214]

Hello everyone, I am a little confused on step 22 of assembly guide of the Megasquirt board. Talking about the ignition control module with MS2 

 

Isnt the ignition control the sensor on the Distributor?

 

I do not see any wiring diagrams for MS2 that show distributor, coil and igniter. 

So I am not sure on which connection to make on the board since :

• The ignition signal going to MegaSquirt-II to the DB37 pin 24, as usual. This is connected to pin 14 of the 40 pin socket (IRQ), and pin ^#1 of the MC9S12C32 processor.
• The signal from MegaSquirt-II™ to the module comes out on:
  • Pin #17 of the 40 pin socket (labeled IGN), and is connected to the 5^th hole of the JP1 header (pin 8 of the MC9S12C32). It MAY be connected to DB37 pin #30 with V2.2 main boards, if jumpered as recommended.

     

  • Pin #36 on the DB37 (JS10 jumpered to IGN) for V3.0 main boards if not using the high current ignition driver circuit (HEI/EDIS/etc.),

     

  • Pin #36 of the DB37 for V3.0 main boards (IGBTOUT jumpered to IGN) for V3.0 main boards if using the IGBT high current ignition driver circuit.

    Note: If you are not using the high-current circuit to directly control a coil, you likely need to to add a pull-up resistor (which allows the signal to go both high and low, rather than floating and low).

 

Am i suppose to do the second bullet since it is a V3 board not using high current?

[Chickenman]

Have you posted this up at the MSextra.com Forums?  Are you using the MS2 Hardware guide? Download it here: 

 

http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS2V30_Hardware-3.4.pdf

 

 Do not use the DIYAutoTune instructions. A lot of it is outdated material. 

 

You need a high current Ignition driver to drive a single coil. That's the BIP 373.  Waste Spark coil packs would need 3 x BIP 373.

 

Individual COP ( LS2 coils ) need the MS3X expansion board. 

[cgsheen]

59 minutes ago, gmorrone1214 said:

Hello everyone, I am a little confused on step 22 of assembly guide of the Megasquirt board. Talking about the ignition control module with MS2 

 

Isnt the ignition control the sensor on the Distributor?

 

I do not see any wiring diagrams for MS2 that show distributor, coil and igniter. 

So I am not sure on which connection to make on the board since :

• The ignition signal going to MegaSquirt-II to the DB37 pin 24, as usual. This is connected to pin 14 of the 40 pin socket (IRQ), and pin ^#1 of the MC9S12C32 processor.
• The signal from MegaSquirt-II™ to the module comes out on:
  • Pin #17 of the 40 pin socket (labeled IGN), and is connected to the 5^th hole of the JP1 header (pin 8 of the MC9S12C32). It MAY be connected to DB37 pin #30 with V2.2 main boards, if jumpered as recommended.

     

  • Pin #36 on the DB37 (JS10 jumpered to IGN) for V3.0 main boards if not using the high current ignition driver circuit (HEI/EDIS/etc.),

     

  • Pin #36 of the DB37 for V3.0 main boards (IGBTOUT jumpered to IGN) for V3.0 main boards if using the IGBT high current ignition driver circuit.

    Note: If you are not using the high-current circuit to directly control a coil, you likely need to to add a pull-up resistor (which allows the signal to go both high and low, rather than floating and low).

 

Am i suppose to do the second bullet since it is a V3 board not using high current?

 

You should probably describe your setup - engine and spark configuration.  Although to me at least, it sounds like you're using a single coil and already have an igniter (transistor ignition module, electronic ignition, blah, blah...).  If that is the case, then the second bullet would be for you.  Although for my MS2 v3.0 board builds I've been using the MS2/V3.0 Hardware Manual that Chickenman linked above and it doesn't have the same "step 22" that you're showing above.

 

[gmorrone1214]

12 minutes ago, cgsheen said:

 

You should probably describe your setup - engine and spark configuration.  Although to me at least, it sounds like you're using a single coil and already have an igniter (transistor ignition module, electronic ignition, blah, blah...).  If that is the case, then the second bullet would be for you.  Although for my MS2 v3.0 board builds I've been using the MS2/V3.0 Hardware Manual that Chickenman linked above and it doesn't have the same "step 22" that you're showing above.

 

 

 

Thanks chickenman for posting that link , I have been using http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3assemble.htm to assemble the board. 

 

Currently I am using the stock coil and ignition module from a 81 l28e with a 83 turbo distributor. 

[gmorrone1214]

You only need one 7 pin (or 8 pin) HEI module to use a VR dizzy with the V2.2 megasquirt. I did this setup in a few chevy TPI engines. The basics are the same, the dizzy used a VR sensor. The 7 pin HEI picks up that signal and sends a trigger signal to the megasquirt for rpm/tach. The megasquirt controls the 7 pin module to fire the coil.

 

Look at this picture from the link that Matt gave for the 7 pin:

 

 

----Is this the setup I should be looking for with the distributor?

 

 

• However on the MS website they have this wiring diagram but there is no HEI is the wiring diagram even though it is for HEI. 
• https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/install/nissan-datsun/megasquirt-your-280zx-turbo/

Wiring The input side of things will be the same as mobythevan’s setup– it’s the output side of things that will change.  Here’s a diagram of how to wire it all up if you’re laying out your own wiring harness. This diagram assumes you are splicing the connector from the OEM Nissan wiring – color designations are for the Nissan wiring harness, notthe MegaSquirt wiring.

 

• ----Sorry, I am just a little confused on the ignition aspect of the MS.

Edited April 13, 2018 by gmorrone1214

[Chickenman]

Make your life simple. Buy the BIP373 coil driver from DIYAutoTuning. It's a whole $8.50. Forget about the HEI Module.

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/bosch-bip373-coil-driver-mod-kit/

 

Also, use ONLY the MSextra Hardware manual. That schematic is old news..... as is mostly everything in the Mega Manual. MSExtra Team has been doing the firmware development for the MS ECU's since about 2006. Anything marked " Mega Manual ", is from original B&G firmware developed before 2006... so its' only about 12 years old. A lot of improvements have been made since then. 

 

You should also use the VR conditioner circuit instead of the Opt-In/Opt-Out circuitry. The VR conditioner gives a cleaner signal. 

 

Softopz recommend this method ( VR conditioner ) . He  custom builds MS2 ECU's and also custom harnesses for the L28 ET and just about anything you want. He's in the vendors forum. 

 

Please note: I'm not a builder. I know a fair bit about MS builds, but I mainly do Remote Tuning. Once you get ready to run I can help you out with a Baseline set-up and Remote Tune for fisrt start-up. PM me for details. 

[gmorrone1214]

4 hours ago, Chickenman said:

Make your life simple. Buy the BIP373 coil driver from DIYAutoTuning. It's a whole $8.50. Forget about the HEI Module.

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/bosch-bip373-coil-driver-mod-kit/

 

Also, use ONLY the MSextra Hardware manual. That schematic is old news..... as is mostly everything in the Mega Manual. MSExtra Team has been doing the firmware development for the MS ECU's since about 2006. Anything marked " Mega Manual ", is from original B&G firmware developed before 2006... so its' only about 12 years old. A lot of improvements have been made since then. 

 

You should also use the VR conditioner circuit instead of the Opt-In/Opt-Out circuitry. The VR conditioner gives a cleaner signal. 

 

Softopz recommend this method ( VR conditioner ) . He  custom builds MS2 ECU's and also custom harnesses for the L28 ET and just about anything you want. He's in the vendors forum. 

 

Please note: I'm not a builder. I know a fair bit about MS builds, but I mainly do Remote Tuning. Once you get ready to run I can help you out with a Baseline set-up and Remote Tune for fisrt start-up. PM me for details. 

 

 

Yeah Ill definitely contact you once I get it installed!

 

So I should get the BIP373 coil driver. 

Should I also get the updated trigger wheel?

 

And to build the board I should set it up as below correct? 

• You said to use VR Conditioner
• So I would need to set the board as a VR Sensor instead of the Opt-in/Opt-out

1. a) Solder a link between VRIN and TACHSELECT 
2. b) Solder a wire between VrOUT and TSEL
3.  With a small screwdriver, turn the pots, R52 and R56, about 12 turns anticlockwise (sometimes you may feel 
   a "click" when the end position is reached, they can't be damaged by turning too far.) This sets them up for most
   VR sensors.

 

[Chickenman]

BIP373 = Yes

 

DIY Custom 54mm L28ET Trigger wheel = yes.

Connect Optical through VR conditioner = Yes. 

 

The MSextra Hardware manual will have directions to build VR conditioner circuit in section 5.2.3.  VR conditioner recommendation is an update since the DIY articles were written.  There are links to specific VR settings that go into more detail. It's all in the MSExtra 3.4.2  Hardware PDF. 

 

 

 

 

 

[softopz]

Yes do NOT USE THE HALL INPUT anymore we really need a sticky on this and have DIYautotune update the installation article.

VR should be used for practically every MS input. ONLY hall/opto should be used for fuel ONLY setups running coil NEG for trigger input. 

\ adjust your pots and measure top of R54 2.2-2.5v is good its all in the msextra manual here http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS2V30_Hardware-3.4.pdf

 

Also if your building your 3.0 board also use the MS extra pdf has the build up info with newer methods for building a board even though Megamanual works. IE c30

13) As long as you’re NOT using the coil –ve as the trigger input (Fuel only) find C30 and instead install it in H1/Boot (This adds smoothing to the battery voltage measurement and reduces the chance of noise getting injected into the CPU from the 12V line.) 

 

Chickenman said it get the DIY wheel , Get a BIP and toss the HEI out. When setting up the 3.0 board do the pull up resistor inside the board instead of your wiring. 

 

This is the good thing about MS and the bad theres so many ways of doing something and what works for one person may not work (depending on the hardware they have or ECU so many variables) PLUS with new methods of doing installs the old "stickys" are still the "go to" . 

 

 

[gmorrone1214]

22 hours ago, softopz said:

Yes do NOT USE THE HALL INPUT anymore we really need a sticky on this and have DIYautotune update the installation article.

VR should be used for practically every MS input. ONLY hall/opto should be used for fuel ONLY setups running coil NEG for trigger input. 

\ adjust your pots and measure top of R54 2.2-2.5v is good its all in the msextra manual here http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS2V30_Hardware-3.4.pdf

 

Also if your building your 3.0 board also use the MS extra pdf has the build up info with newer methods for building a board even though Megamanual works. IE c30

13) As long as you’re NOT using the coil –ve as the trigger input (Fuel only) find C30 and instead install it in H1/Boot (This adds smoothing to the battery voltage measurement and reduces the chance of noise getting injected into the CPU from the 12V line.) 

 

Chickenman said it get the DIY wheel , Get a BIP and toss the HEI out. When setting up the 3.0 board do the pull up resistor inside the board instead of your wiring. 

 

This is the good thing about MS and the bad theres so many ways of doing something and what works for one person may not work (depending on the hardware they have or ECU so many variables) PLUS with new methods of doing installs the old "stickys" are still the "go to" . 

 

So my kit came with the BIP373 (Q16), it also came with BIP373 330o 1/4w, so i wont have to purchase the kit.

 

Do I use the BIP373 330 1/4w at all?

 

Instead of on the + wire from the  VR sensor which leads to (DB37 pin24), where on the board would I solder the resistor?

 

For what its worth thanks for your help, along with chickenman and everyone else.

Edited April 15, 2018 by gmorrone1214

[cgsheen]

21 hours ago, gmorrone1214 said:

Do I use the BIP373 330 1/4w at all?

 

Yes.  Refer to page 76 of the MS2/V3.0 Hardware Manual.  "Connect a 330R 1/4W Resistor between IGBTin and the top of R26."  Be sure to follow all the steps in the section 5.3.1.1 on page 76.

 

For the "pull up" resistor (1K) needed when using the Nissan CAS, use the proto area on the version 3.0 board.  It's very easy to fit IC's and discrete components in the holes.  Fit your resistor in there and then use wires from S12 to one side of the resistor (that's your 12 volt source) and from the other side to TachSelect like the "Using DIYAutoTune.com's Nissan Optical Trigger Discs" .PDF says.  Be sure to follow the other instructions in that document - there are other hardware mods to be made on an MS2/V3.0 board.  Note that there are GROUND and +5V "holes" (connections) in the proto area - stay away from those for this connection.

 

I find it easy to insert the resistor and bend the leads over towards an adjoining hole.  Cut the lead so it just barely goes to the adjoining hole.  insert the stripped wire end in the adjoining hole (insulated wire is on the same side as the resistor, bare wire goes through the hole to meet up with the resistor lead on the opposite side of the board...).  Lap the bare wire over the resistor lead and solder them together.  

[gmorrone1214]

2 hours ago, cgsheen said:

 

Yes.  Refer to page 76 of the MS2/V3.0 Hardware Manual.  "Connect a 330R 1/4W Resistor between IGBTin and the top of R26."  Be sure to follow all the steps in the section 5.3.1.1 on page 76.

 

For the "pull up" resistor (1K) needed when using the Nissan CAS, use the proto area on the version 3.0 board.  It's very easy to fit IC's and discrete components in the holes.  Fit your resistor in there and then use wires from S12 to one side of the resistor (that's your 12 volt source) and from the other side to TachSelect like the "Using DIYAutoTune.com's Nissan Optical Trigger Discs" .PDF says.  Be sure to follow the other instructions in that document - there are other hardware mods to be made on an MS2/V3.0 board.  Note that there are GROUND and +5V "holes" (connections) in the proto area - stay away from those for this connection.

 

I find it easy to insert the resistor and bend the leads over towards an adjoining hole.  Cut the lead so it just barely goes to the adjoining hole.  insert the stripped wire end in the adjoining hole (insulated wire is on the same side as the resistor, bare wire goes through the hole to meet up with the resistor lead on the opposite side of the board...).  Lap the bare wire over the resistor lead and solder them together.  

 

 

Okay ill make sure to do that once I get the resistor.

 

So I went to test the board and I plug the stim in with a 9v and noting happens. I am not even getting any power readings at the stim.

Isn't the stim not powered until connected to the board? If so even when connected I still do not have any power being drawn.

 

I saw the stim  manual on how to use it and it says I have to plug the other port into the computer and upload the firmware and studio, shouldn't I be able to just check for voltage without doing all of that? Only reason I ask is because my PC does not have a CD port on it, waiting for my laptop to arrive. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by gmorrone1214

[softopz]

There is a step before you complete the board that test the power circuit in the assembly did you do that.

[gmorrone1214]

I was trying to do that step however I am not getting any power to PCB at all. 

 

With the 9v in the stim, I am not even getting a reading at the + terminal of the stim when it is connected to MS2 board. 

 

Ill just bench test it with a 12v battery and the 1amp fuse to the 28pin to see if the stim is the problem.

Edited April 16, 2018 by gmorrone1214

[softopz]

You should have stopped there and figured out the issue. Maybe you have a diode backwards. Make sure all banded ends are on the side noted on board. Also certain capacitors have to be installed correctly. I would look at your  board and follow the steps one by one. 

[gmorrone1214]

23 hours ago, softopz said:

You should have stopped there and figured out the issue. Maybe you have a diode backwards. Make sure all banded ends are on the side noted on board. Also certain capacitors have to be installed correctly. I would look at your  board and follow the steps one by one. 

 

Powered it with the battery and all is well. 

 

Checked the voltage according to the hardware manual and everything checks out.

 

All that is left is installing the transistor for the single coil setup. 

 

Once I have the modifications done to the jumper wires I will upload a picture just to make sure that it is correct. 

[gmorrone1214]

 

Set up for single high output coil

82 turbo dizzy 

no PWM idle 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by gmorrone1214

[gmorrone1214]

Just as an update I got the board firmware downloaded and hooked up to Tuner Studio.  When using the megastim and moving the adjusters the corresponding gauges in the studio move, all besides the RPM (Well starts to then stops , says it needs to be calibrated).

 

However none of my LED's on the Board or the megastim light up, is this normal? 

 

Also the board now has the motherboard along with R43 for High output coil.

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by gmorrone1214

[supershanesta]

Funny you say that. I built an MS2 from scratch for l28et, with stock dizzy and single coil and have the save issue with my leds. My board works. Car runs great. Everything works just no leds. In my opinion, if it works... it works. I worried about it for a while, but now I haven't thought about it until right now!

 

BUT i did have all leds working on my megastim. Again if you see input in TunerStudio then your good in my experience. RPM will not be right unless you switch it to the correct setting for the megastim.

 

Shane

Edited May 11, 2018 by supershanesta

[softopz]

Depends on what megastim you have and the switch it's set at. Sometimes they don't read better to set up harness and plug in distributor.