Building MS2 V3 Board

[softopz 16]

Have you adjusted the VR pots per manual. 

[gmorrone1214 0]

9 hours ago, softopz said:

Have you adjusted the VR pots per manual. 

 

Yes sir I have. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by gmorrone1214

[gmorrone1214 0]

Just posting an update and also an issue 😑.

 

"Had" the car running on the build from this thread but also added PWM IAC (TIP120) to the board as well, which was amazing for idle tuning. 

 

Car was running on the board build for the past 4 months and I finally got my water/meth installed and was starting to tune for boost with the HY35 turbo setup. 

 

Now out of no where I am getting a really weak spark from the coil to distributor.  Color is orange and blue sometimes, very erratic, super weak(have to hold it really tight to a ground), and will not travel to a spark plug end. 

 

I checked the coil resistance and that checked out.  I also used the test mode in tuner studio and it fires the coil but the spark is super weak.  I also put a test light on the neg coil while testing and it doesn't dim on/off, reading the volts they drop but does not fully ground out.

 

Thoughts may be the bip373?  Is there a way to check if it is fully functional (ohms reading).  I thought they were pretty  bulletproof?  I read a bunch of threads also about it grounding out on the heatsink. I pulled off the bip373 and double checked for burs. It is mica insulated with the metal screw and insert.  

 

I ordered another bip373 already assuming that may be the issue. Any thoughts or advice moving forward?

[gmorrone1214 0]

Just installed the new BIP373, car fired right up.  Not sure as to why the BIP373 burned out.  It did look as if a part of the mica where the bolt goes through was ripped a little and was then burned on the heatsink where the rip was. 

 

 

[supernova_6969 0]

Gmorrone: yeah, if changing it fixed it AND it looked broken chances are that's what did it.  

 

Maybe it wasn't well stuck to the heatsink and couldn't evacuate all the heat..  

[gmorrone1214 0]

Does anyone happen to know about running LSx(1) coils, logical spark. 

I have read multiple threads and I cannot find a definite answer. 

 

Question is:  Can I run Ls1 Coils, as wasted spark, without the 3 BIP, and run off the dizzy VR sensor?

I believe the answer is yes and I would have to mod the board for logical spark output.  

[cgsheen 21]

Yes. And you don't necessarily need to run wasted spark. Three IC's will give you 6 channels of logical spark (or go MS3X). Fairly easy to wire up in the proto area. Here's another weird thing: you can use a Nissan 6-channel ignitor and Ford 4.6 coils. I paid about $30 for 8 Ford curved boot coils - The Nissan Ignitor runs them well.

[gmorrone1214 0]

On 8/7/2019 at 3:34 PM, cgsheen said:

Yes. And you don't necessarily need to run wasted spark. Three IC's will give you 6 channels of logical spark (or go MS3X). Fairly easy to wire up in the proto area. Here's another weird thing: you can use a Nissan 6-channel ignitor and Ford 4.6 coils. I paid about $30 for 8 Ford curved boot coils - The Nissan Ignitor runs them well.

 

Thanks for the Info.  I went with the LS coils and installed using 5.3.1.3 Logic spark output- FET driver method using the TC4427AEPA.  I installed it all yesterday and used the stim to verify if the circuits were working.  All verified to be producing outputs via to LED illuminating. 

 

Now its time for the fun part of in-cooperating it into my relay board wiring. 

 

So on the relay board S5 relates to pin 36 which is Spark A.

Spark B and C however are SPR3 and SPR2.  SPR 3 and SPR 2 are both ground wires on the relay board connector at pins 4 and 5.

 

Would I be able to splice the wires coming from pin 4 and 5 from the relay board harness and wire them into Wire Pin 31 ( IAC2B, S4 on relay board)  and wire pin 29 (IAC2A, S3 on relay board).

 

Im trying to keep everything running through the relay board as to not have a rats nest of wires coming out of the DIY relay board harness. 

 

References are attached. 

Relay Board Schematic.pdf

[gmorrone1214 0]

Got the coils attached with a homemade bracket I fabbed up.  Will fishing off wiring it through the relay board tomorrow and will post an update. 

[gmorrone1214 0]

Got it all wired up and am getting spark to all plugs.  However, the car will not start.  It is hiccuping and wants to start but wont turn over completly.  

 

Spark A 1-6, B 2-5, C 3-4.  Posted my MSQ and start log as well. 

 

Not sure if it matters but the dizzy cap is on with no wires (this wont cause an issue right?)

 

Any help would be appreciated. 

Wasted Spark - No Start.msl CurrentTune.msq

[supernova_6969 0]

Sounds stupid and basic, but have you checked basic timing?

 

are you certain your injectors are giving enough (or not too much) gas?  I forget if you have a O2 sensor.  although, if it's not burning everything uip, the readings wouldn't be accurate.  

 

s

 

 

[gmorrone1214 0]

4 hours ago, supernova_6969 said:

Sounds stupid and basic, but have you checked basic timing?

 

are you certain your injectors are giving enough (or not too much) gas?  I forget if you have a O2 sensor.  although, if it's not burning everything uip, the readings wouldn't be accurate.  

 

 

 

 

 

I mean the car was running perfect before I switched to LS2 coils (Wasted Spark). Baseline tune was situated and had perfect startup (warmup) with a PWM idle valve. But I have not checked timing again since I originally set it and haven't touched anything with the settings. 

 

Not sure if I have to change any of the injector setting now due to the change to wasted spark....

 

Pulled plugs and replaced with a fresh set.  Just tried to crank over, still having the same issue.  Pulled the plugs and there was a little bit of gas on the end, nothing extreme (I mean I figured it may start allowing more air in, and still nothing)

 

I have a wide-band, but no reading due to no start. 

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B44ltrAZLqiAbGt4cWR2N2FUdU1RYjg0UHZiel8tS0ZlQmlz 

 

Video of spark 

Edited September 2 by gmorrone1214
Video

[HuD 91gt 5]

Authentic LS coils? My first set ended up being knockoffs and never ran correctly. How’s the spark when you test the outputs?

Edited September 2 by HuD 91gt

[gmorrone1214 0]

5 hours ago, HuD 91gt said:

Authentic LS coils? My first set ended up being knockoffs and never ran correctly. How’s the spark when you test the outputs?

Testing the outputs all of the coils spark in their respective channels.  

 

I then took all the spark plugs out and grounded them to make sure they were sparking on actual ignition events (read a post on the megasquirt forums someone had an issue where it would spark on testing output but not on ignition cycle)  however, not the case.  All spark plugs were firing.  The VERY weird part was I had on plug in the cylinder head with 5 removed and was cranking it over.....well the vehicle actually turned over a ran for a split second ON ONE CYLINDER?! 

 

Craziest part is that the ignition coil (clinder 6) that I tested I just randomly put it into cylinder #4... which makes no sense on how the vehicle would turn over.  

 

I went over the outputs and everything is going to the respective cylinders. 1-6 A, 2-5 B and 3-4 C.  

 

I will post the attempts again,  looks like the wideband is reading around ~10 when cranking which is super rich.  However, I got it to read in the 13-14 and still would not turn over. 

[HuD 91gt 5]

If it ran with a single plug, in the wrong hole I’d be checking your timing. Considering a well tuned engine would have trouble doing that in general. One which is 120 degrees out is even crazier.

 

check your base timing at TDC and go from there.

Edited September 3 by HuD 91gt

[HuD 91gt 5]

I just looked at your toothed wheel settings.  Why on earth do you have it set as 387 degrees before TDC?

[gmorrone1214 0]

1 hour ago, HuD 91gt said:

I just looked at your toothed wheel settings.  Why on earth do you have it set as 387 degrees before TDC?

 

As per chickenman using the method to set inital timing to 10 deg using fixed timing and a timing light I had to go to 387 to get to tooth angle to 10 deg.  Did this all last year and had the car running with these setting running 10lbs of boost (on that setup with high output single coil).  As I stated the only thing changed was the ignition output. 

 

I mean is 387 bad?

 

I will verify the timing tomorrow. I read somewhere that I may need a different type of timing light to wasted spark, is that true?

[HuD 91gt 5]

I only have experience with my old unit, but I suspect 387 would be the same as 27 degrees. (360 degrees of rotation). I’ve never heard of a tooth angle that large.  Check your timing. Something seems off.

 

If your timing checks out ok.  Try tooth angle at 27 degrees, and see if it stays the same.  More for my own knowledge then anything else.

 

 

 

Also, I see you have it setup as a toothed wheel. Is that the correct setting using the VR distributor?   I’m focusing my attention on the timing settings as, if the spark output is working appropriately with each channel, it’s all about the timing. Start at the basics.  

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3 by HuD 91gt

[HuD 91gt 5]

I just compared my last MS2 tune with yours.  I used three logic coil outputs using a 60-2 toothed wheel.  If you compare our tunes, our settings are quite a bit different.  EG Sequenced batch fire on, on yours off on mine, wasted spark vs wasted COP etc.  it's been far too long since I messed with my MS to remember everything correctly.  Ill load mine up,  check out my settings in the compare tune section and try them out.

CurrentTune.msq

Edited September 3 by HuD 91gt

[gmorrone1214 0]

9 hours ago, HuD 91gt said:

I just compared my last MS2 tune with yours.  I used three logic coil outputs using a 60-2 toothed wheel.  If you compare our tunes, our settings are quite a bit different.  EG Sequenced batch fire on, on yours off on mine, wasted spark vs wasted COP etc.  it's been far too long since I messed with my MS to remember everything correctly.  Ill load mine up,  check out my settings in the compare tune section and try them out.

CurrentTune.msq 116.59 kB · 1 download

 

Problem Solved!! 

 

It was the timing.  Went back and checked the timing, set tooth angle to 0 and car was at TDC 0 Deg.  To get it to 10deg I now have a tooth angle of exactly 220.  

 

Turned over and started instantly! Man, am I relieved, thanks for all the help from everyone! 

 

Weird thing is the car was running on the previous tooth angle with no issues at all which is strange.....

 

Well now time to start tuning for boost and pray I do not blow the engine 😁

[gmorrone1214 0]

On 9/2/2019 at 7:57 AM, supernova_6969 said:

Sounds stupid and basic, but have you checked basic timing?

 

are you certain your injectors are giving enough (or not too much) gas?  I forget if you have a O2 sensor.  although, if it's not burning everything uip, the readings wouldn't be accurate.  

 

s

 

 

HA stupid and basic you say....well it was that simple.  As stated above, its just crazy that the car was running perfect on the previous tooth angle which I set at 10deg  with a 387 tooth angle with single high output coil setup....

[HuD 91gt 5]

Did you happen to pull the distributor shaft at any point? Glad you got it figured out.

[gmorrone1214 0]

1 hour ago, HuD 91gt said:

Did you happen to pull the distributor shaft at any point? Glad you got it figured out.

 

Nope, haven't touched it since I installed the turbo distributor for mega-squirt last year and set the timing.  That's why I was mind blown, since I haven't messed with anything timing related. 

[tomr240zap 10]

Reviving an older thread, but doing some similar troubleshooting with the same setup (triggering single coil w/ BIP373) and having the same issues.
Initially built my board using the original (outdated / incorrect) instuctions from DIY.  Reworked to use the VR circuit, but still fighting with it.

Question:  nowhere in this original tread are mentions of the additional recommended connections for the L28ET DIY 12-1 trigger wheel on the DIY autotune site...
 

• Solder a 470 ohm resistor onto a length of wire and cover with heat shrink tubing. Run this resistor-on-a-wire from the 5 volt terminal in the proto area to SPR1 
• Connect a 0.1 uF capacitor from JS10 to SG or the proto area ground.

 

Are these connections typically not utilized?

Edited October 22 by tomr240zap