Jump to content
HybridZ
Gmagno

1970 240Z Race Car Front Suspension Issue

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Mocking up the front suspension on the race car and ran into an issue. Sway bar is too short to match up with Arizona Z lower control arm mounts. Logic tells me i can narrow the distance by drilling another hole and move the lower control arm in an inch on each side. Dimensions of another 1973 240Z I have below along with current 1970 240Z race car. My question is, if I narrow the distance to fit the sway bar, how narrow to allow lower control arm adjustments and will the sway bar stretch? Thanks in advance for the help.

 

1973 240 Z Stock                  1970 240Z  Race car

51" font rotor to rotor W.      51 1/4"

39" sway bar pin to pin.        40 1/2"

52" rear rotor to rotor W.      52"

 

20190807_125134.jpg

Edited by Gmagno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you proposing drilling new holes in the front crossmember and moving the mounting points onboard 1"?  If so, I'd say that sounds like a pretty bad idea; in that it will hurt your front track width and camber settings.

 

Have you contacted AZC to ask them what the problem might be?  Different end links might be the answer, but it's hard to tell from that picture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jhm said:

Are you proposing drilling new holes in the front crossmember and moving the mounting points onboard 1"?  If so, I'd say that sounds like a pretty bad idea; in that it will hurt your front track width and camber settings.

 

Have you contacted AZC to ask them what the problem might be?  Different end links might be the answer, but it's hard to tell from that picture.

 

I am, but haven't yet. just don't know how the lower control arm can be adjusted out any with sway bar installed, being as tight as it will be once I get it to fit. Didn't call Dave yet. Looking for feedback and planned on sending him a link to this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That doesn't look like the stock crossmember.  Has it already been modified or replaced with a different unit?  If so, that could certainly be causing you problems (if the LCA mounting points are different than stock).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jhm said:

That doesn't look like the stock crossmember.  Has it already been modified or replaced with a different unit?  If so, that could certainly be causing you problems (if the LCA mounting points are different than stock).

I noticed that too. Perhaps the LCA mount is already pushed outboard a bit. Everything stacking up creates the difference. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bending the bar and adjustable links might get you there. Do pay attention to the final angle of the link though. If it is less than 90 degrees, it does change the effectiveness of the sway bar. I I am sure that I personally would not be able to detect a small change, but if the angle gets steep it could be significant. 

 

http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/Sway-Bar-Link-Force-Calculator.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I appreciate all the replies and in hindsight should have posted these pics earlier. Let me know your thoughts. Biggest question again is, can I adjust the lower control arm out on each side if the sway bar is already stretched to the max width? Maybe the end links @silverado22c mentioned is my total solution?

 

 

20190808_134956.jpg

20190808_135009.jpg

20190808_135018.jpg

20190808_135035.jpg

20190808_135051.jpg

20190808_135103.jpg

20190808_135125.jpg

20190808_135146.jpg

20190808_135158.jpg

Edited by Gmagno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, jhm said:

Are you proposing drilling new holes in the front crossmember and moving the mounting points onboard 1"?  If so, I'd say that sounds like a pretty bad idea; in that it will hurt your front track width and camber settings.

 

Have you contacted AZC to ask them what the problem might be?  Different end links might be the answer, but it's hard to tell from that picture.

 

Found out the LCA's are from Silvermine. Checking with Edan now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are those square frame tubes same width than originally? If so, i bet you have wider inner lca pick-up points than originally. 

Are you done that frame by yourself? Why fabricate tube frame and maintain original geometry? I would add caster atleast because you can with than kind of modding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a crappy drawing on bending the bar. Just lay it over the base and push on the bend. Keep measuring eyelet to eyelet. Bend one side until they move 1" apart, then flip and do the same on the other side. 10 minutes max.
 

bendy.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, TUME said:

Are those square frame tubes same width than originally? If so, i bet you have wider inner lca pick-up points than originally. 

Are you done that frame by yourself? Why fabricate tube frame and maintain original geometry? I would add caster at least because you can with than kind of modding.

 

Nothing is original and everything modded from 1970. Some things replaced the same due to deterioration. We kept the same specs on width.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, JMortensen said:

Here's a crappy drawing on bending the bar. Just lay it over the base and push on the bend. Keep measuring eyelet to eyelet. Bend one side until they move 1" apart, then flip and do the same on the other side. 10 minutes max.
 

bendy.jpeg

 

Thanks for the diagram, thought about this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've done many alignments, mostly on Land Rovers and some other vehicles.  The amount of movement is minimal to get a big degree change for camber, not like you would be adjusting the lower control arms out an inch or more.  You could probably get a few degrees at about 1/2" or under.  Even race cars are not really going over 5*, you'll probably end up setting it up at 2 to maybe 3 degrees, 4 at most if you can really drive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, silverado22c said:

I've done many alignments, mostly on Land Rovers and some other vehicles.  The amount of movement is minimal to get a big degree change for camber, not like you would be adjusting the lower control arms out an inch or more.  You could probably get a few degrees at about 1/2" or under.  Even race cars are not really going over 5*, you'll probably end up setting it up at 2 to maybe 3 degrees, 4 at most if you can really drive.

 

Wondering if after I stretch the sway bar to fit if I can still get more stretch by adjusting the LCA the way it's currently mounted?

Edited by Gmagno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yes, those pictures explain a lot.  I don't think Edan will be able to offer much help, given that your entire front end is custom.

 

It may be possible to bend the sway bar, as JMort described; but I suspect it may be harder to bend wider than it would be to bend it narrower (especially with a thick bar, as yours appears to be).  Custom end links might also be a practical solution.   Universal sway bars can be had for pretty cheap, so maybe just look for a wider bar, and possibly one that will be adjustable to boot?

 

It does not appear that you will be able to adjust those Silvermine LCAs any longer without significantly changing some other aspect of your suspension (e.g. LCA mounting points, sway bar mounting, the sway bar itself, etc.)  And as Silverado pointed out, do you really need more neg camber (or track width)?? 

 

Good luck with it -- should be quite a nice track car once you get it all sorted!

Edited by jhm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, jhm said:

It may be possible to bend the sway bar, as JMort described; but I suspect it may be harder to bend wider than it would be to bend it narrower (especially with a thick bar, as yours appears to be).  Custom end links might also be a practical solution.   Universal sway bars can be had for pretty cheap, so maybe just look for a wider bar, and possibly one that will be adjustable to boot?

I bent mine, front and rear, in all kinds of directions. No problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would set up the lower control arm at about where it would live most it's life.  Use an old alignment tool that connects to the wheel and uses bubbles, magnetic camber/cast king pin gauge, if you don't have access to an alignment machine.  Probably some circle track guys still use them if you don't want to buy 1.  Just because it seems your LCA is all the way in and your tension rod and tie rod look to being a bit further out.  Then measure like the others say for another sway bar or bend it to fit.

 

Can't quite tell, but it seems you have slightly positive camber even in the pics.  I don't know on Datsun's, as I've never aligned 1, if negative 3 degrees is 1/4" out or 3/4" out on the adjusting sleeve.  But as it seems you have it on a stand, would need to either set on the ground or somehow get the hub and suspension to ride height for proper alignment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...