nzarano Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Hello Hybridz! I am doing a masters in motorsport engineering and need to do a ground vehicle aerodynamics project and have one idea for another vehicle but my heart is always with datsuns..... one idea i have for datsuns is is it possible to reduce front lift without a front spoiler that changes the look of the car.... im open to other ideas and if anyone has cad files of the car I can run through CFD and then maybe 3d print to get in the tunnel would also be much appreciated! let me hear your ideas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Just throwing things around here, I recall that some production type race cars used to have a channel type front spoiler, front view ____.--------.____ Volvo springs to mind. Have no firm idea on how it worked, perhaps the channel worked as a diffuser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzarano Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 current idea is to cover the steering rack with a wing profile.... wont change the look of the car, and its bolt on which is good, also simple to model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverdone Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 The problem with the lift IS the front end profile. It channels air the hood, which has a shorter distance to travel to the back then over the top, and it makes lift. Short of stopping the amount of air that enters under the car, you'd need to remove the hood to stop the path of air from traveling over top and creating some sort of turbulent mess of air, which would probably increase drag. Making a spoiler to create downforce on the steering rack would negate some of the lift, but then you're channeling a lot of air up into the engine itself, which would increase drag. What's the end goal you have for your project? What do you need to prove on a base level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuD 91gt Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 The air in the engine bay needs to go somewhere to have any aerodynamic device effective. A spoiler on the steering rack may work if you had no hood. Reduce the lift of the front end by reducing the airflow tunneling in the engine bay and under the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ereschkigal Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 See: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 I think the easiest way to reduce front lift is to duct the radiator to the front of the car, so that all the air that goes in the nose has to go through the rad and can't go under or over the rad support. Even better would be to take the air out of the rad and send it back outside of the car, either to the sides or out the hood. I also think that a wing shape under the crossmember could potentially work, but the front end of the Z packs so much air into the engine compartment that you'd have a hard time accelerating the air with your foil, as it would exhaust into the high pressure area under the hood. In other words, it probably won't work much or at all without first dealing with the huge amount of air that's packing into the front of the car. None of the cars tested in the windtunnel had a radiator duct, unfortunately. They did close up the hole in the nose to varying degrees, which is better than nothing, but I think they left a lot on the table in that respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzarano Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 On 11/26/2019 at 6:50 AM, Ereschkigal said: See: hey I would love to talk about what you guys did and what youre findings and data looked like!! this looks super cool, wish i had my z here for testing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzarano Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 cfd has finished running for some situations today, but have not had time to crunch numbers and look at the results.... due to time crunch and lack of design files what i have in terms of cad is pretty basic. However alot of the theories of air being sucked up or getting stuck that have been mentioned should be at least visible or disproven based off findings.... I am hoping that the cross member is low enough that with the profile selected it does not kick up air too much. Obviously hood louvers would help and some radiator ducting work could be beneficial.... due to time crunch the cfd does not have a porous media / heat transfer set up for radiator so that will be for a later day.... Improvements would come from adding the radiator, a front opening similar to the grill, the fan, and holes in rimes to generate vortecies.... this however ups the computational power and time required. For now hoping to see how much downforce a small wing in that area can produce, what can maybe lead to it producing more downforce, and then if its a good idea and the numbers look good maybe continue down the path. Anyone whose done cfd on these cars any data, info, testing would be appreciated! suspicions and thoughts are all well and good but areo is always more complicated then it looks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ereschkigal Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I was not in any way involved in these linked tests, I just remembered the results of the ducting. As far as I see all the data is in the image gallery . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 One of the first aero improvements to be done with the S30 is to reduce the size of the radiator intake mouth, it's way too big and as JM said packs way too much air into the engine bay where it has nowhere useful to go. This like most things with the S30 has been done, from memory I'm guessing down to something like a 600 x 200 mm opening. Metrics, get used to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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