ToplessZ Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 From what I have seen the equal length Header will start to make a difference at 450+ hp. Id like to see the endurence test. Not alot of faith in stock na valvetrain at 7500 rpms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 endurence test, WOW Hows about we let me get the car going and make sure it's running perfect before I try and kill my car right off the bat. Guys I think I'm going to have to wait and break in the motor after I bore and stroke it before I go nuts like this. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Tbs, Hey good luck on the head thing...hope you get her together and running soon, and on the whole making them thing, did you think of getting with edelbrock or world products or someone else and convincing them to cast the heads once you get the setup right? I would be really interested in trying it on my '78....another Idea....everyone was talking about the KA intake being for a long-stroke motor...why not do the same for the L-6? Let's say take an LD-28 diesel block,(with it's higher deck height like the LZ motors) get the diesel crank offset ground to 3.78" (or a billet crank)and use the KA con rods and pistons to end up with an "L from hell" with a displacement in the neighborhood of 3.8 liters, and take advantage of that KA head. I know I'm just speculating out of the box and don't even know if it can be done, but wouldn't it be cool? I was also wondering about the possibility of increasing the deck height of the L-28 block with a custom plate, (with a head gasket below it) and use taller cylinder sleeves so the cylinder surface is sealed, then slap that KAx1.5 head on top and start showing 1JZ's that there's a new sheriff in town. Just thinking outside the box here, like all of us. The timing cover could be sourced from an LZ-24 (it's deck height was in the neighborhood of NINETEEN MILLIMETERS higher than the standard L-block!) That way a stroker could be built using the LZ pistons AND rods, would just have to get a custom crank made with the longer stroke. I know, just shootin' the bull but wouldn't it be cool to have a "monster" L-series, being just about every other motor in town seems to have monster displacement these days (from the same external size!) I'll look up the specs for the LD-28, if it's deck height is similar to the LZ-24 I'm definitely gonna try the "big-block" L-series idea. Good luck and god-speed on that head, later, Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 funny you should mention the desiel block! I was looking into that and already had a motor lined up, but then they crushed the car before I could buy it, boo hoo! The LD28 motor has the same deck height as the L20B 4 cylinder. you have to use that timing cover, and it bolts on. a board member here by the name of DAW has an LD28 converted to gas using the stock internals and putting a gas head on. I wanted to use the LD28 to get a decent rod/stroke ratio.. custom cranks and cylinder liners are spendy business. but, i suppose you could do it. only problem is, stock bore on teh LD28 is 84.5mm, so, you could really not get a big bore on this motor. and I dunno if it would match up to combustion chamber for an 89mm bore engine. just a thought.. McAdam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Mack, I believe (but not sure) that the diesel probably had some hella-thick cyl. liners, but even if it can't be bored out to 89mm, could just bore to 86mm and use stock flattie 280zx L28 pistons with the L24 rods, with the custom crank. The thing would still be one of the biggest L-series stroker motors in history because the bore size isn't the primary factor in the displacement...I've read on here that just stroking alone can get you close to 3.0L on these motors. (when using the 300zx 87mm pistons with the .040 overbore.) The deck plate idea was if I would decide to use a gas L-block and increase the deck height so the long stroke could be used without resorting to mega-short con rods. BTW, what is the deck height of the L20b? Is it the same as the LZ-24? I can't remember the deck height, it's been a long time since I've owned my 85 nissan pickup (LZ-24 2bbl, beat the tar out of it and it still ran well when I sold it, even at 180,000 miles!) All the talk of modding a cyl. head, anyone consider using the QR25 head and modding it? I've heard that these heads flow really well and have a valvetrain that is easily capable of 7,000+ rpm (despite the QR25 having a 6,100rpm redline, and the NISMO race QR still can only rev 6,700rpm bacause of the terrible rod/stroke ratio!) Nissan basically built a factory stroker with the QR, the JDM QR20DE has the same deck height and 89mm bore but a MUCH shorter stroke (the US QR25 has a 100mm stroke!..that's like, just about the stroke of my BIG BLOCK 430 that's in my Buick sportwagon!) 100mm=3.94"! (this explains why the QR25 has nearly the same hp as the VG33DE (but, imagine! a LOWER REDLINE)and only 20ft. lb. less torque...with a very flat, v-8 like curve.....from about 2,000rpm all the way to 5,000rpm the QR25DE is putting out something like 85% of it's torque peak. (180ft. lb.@4,400) The bore spacing I think is very similar to the KA24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 UPDATE! Guys I'm done milling my heads! Please email me and I'll send you pics I can't get them to post tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FinalRights Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Now push them to the limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 That's too cool! As for naysayers, they said tungsten couldn't be drawn into a wire for light filaments---Edison didn't know that engineering "fact" so he did it anyway. I'm sure there were a lot of metalurgists who said the light couldn't work, as it sat there glowing in front of them. i have seen amazing things done with cast-aluminum heads. The key is having the parts in a jig when you weld them, preheating and cooldown done in the proper way, and hten judiciuos application of hydraulic pressure to straighten anything out needed for minimal decking at the end. There is a company in Tulsa Oklahoma that does WONDERS on stationary equipment. Stuff you thought was wrecked beyond repair---they fix and barely break a sweat! I mean loose counterweights almost cutting an inline 12 cylinder Sulzer Diesel in half! Fixed. Chucked Rod in a 3-Deck high Ships diesel with a ventilated block (you could WALK through the hole in the port-side engine block wall) in three places...FIXED! Our stationary 10X10.5" V16's lost a rod, and they fixed that in less than 12 hours. Repaired the holes in the block and camshaft area, relined the upper and lower liner counterbores, and redecked the left cylinderbank, all in-place, and in the field! Totally awesome. I told them "if you ever come to fix anything in the L.A. area again, call me, I'll come down and watch!" They did several times in the next few years, and I was always amazed. I know that didn't mention welding, but these guys showed me photos of welded stuff they did, and I stopped saying it was "unrepairable" after that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tec280zx Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Lookin' good so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted March 7, 2004 Author Share Posted March 7, 2004 hey thanks for hosting and posting my pics. Also Tony I totally understand what you mean about doing something that everyone says is impossible, I got a lot of instructors that are going to take there hats off to me once I'm done and prove that it works. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiow313 Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 i cant wait to see the finished product. proving your teachers wrong = awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Tec280 - you just beat me to the punch, I was just about to host and post the pics for TBS. Looks great! Regards - Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest norm[T12SDSUD] Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 All of this is very interesting and very "hot rod" creative and I hope it works but I have a question. I know how you can weld the outer walls of the cylinder head but how will you do the inner walls? Will you use some type of high temperature sealant on the interior walls and just press them together? Or, can you get a small welding stick down in the bolt holes and weld it together and then run a drill bit down the hole for bolt clearance?? This really has me baffled. Good luck! Later,norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluto Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Ive been wondering the same thing that norm[T12SDSUD] was, or at least wondering how crazy the solution would sound.. heh I was thinking that one possibility would be to weld the water passages closed befor assembleing the sections then runing external coolant feeds to each head section. High performance motorcycle engine builders do something similiar to that on old Suzi' GS1100 motors with the oil feed for the head. I think in a pinch something similar might also be possible for the rb or mercedes projects/theories floating around.. completly blocking oil and water passages between the head and block and running external feeds into the head. Man I wish I had a bridgeport in the garage, or a garage period! Anywho.. very inspiring work- Good luck, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 External oil and cooling lines shouldn't be a big deal at all, motorbike engines do it all the time. Looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted March 7, 2004 Author Share Posted March 7, 2004 I'll send tec280zx a pic on how I'm going to weld together. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayaapp2 Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 I am new to welding but I was told that Laser welding welds even the inside of the metal not just the surounding area. Why couldn't you drill passages through the head for the oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 well, the way I see it is to just cut about 1/4" away from teh outer walls of the cylinder head, weld up the inner walls (coolant passages) then close up the outer walls. Laser welding wont work. I called around to a few places last year looking to do this. I was gonna use KA24E heads cause thats what I had 2 of sitting in my garage at the time. They told me that it would be no problem if it werent for the fact that cylinder heads are made out of a mix of scrap metal and garbage apearently. too many metals in the head and too many anomolies. If it was a pure aluminum head, it would have worked. heh, I wish that were the case, as they quoted me about $70 a weld. and Id only need 2 of em. ah well. this'll work just as well. McAdam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I don’t know tbs. I have welded up a lot of weird stuff, but this looks like a challenge. The metal in the casting should take a decent weld. I have modified many castings in the past. Some are dirty alunimum and others are great. You wouldn’t think a head would be made from scrap. The oil lines on a Jag are external, so that part is possible. I don’t know a thing about lasers. How are you going to weld the interior parts of the water jacket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja240z Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Good job and proceed to the next step. Hey where are your investors and sponsers? I guess that would be us. Hey guys, what are willing to pay for this head if he decides to market it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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