Rant - Current use of language

[Chaparral2f]

I agree, I can live without a lot of profanity here, although in the real world I curse way too much. Sometimes though, you just gotta call em like you see em. What is offensive is often be in the eye (ear?) of the beholder Like George Carlin said "You can prick you finger, just don't ....

[JKDGabe]

Just because society accepts something doesn't make that thing right. (Or wrong)

Obviously, as long as it's used sparingly it's not gonna be a big deal. Let's be mature and not lose more privileges on our favorite site. There's no way a curse blocker can keep up with all the variations...

 

And why not call the guy a jerk instead of a penis?

[auxilary]

The 'Car Talk' show (on NPR) with Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers have a feature called the 'Puzzler', and their most recent 'Puzzler' was about the Battle of Agincourt. The French, who were overwhelmingly favored to win the battle, threatened to cut a certain body part off of all captured English soldiers so that they could never fight again. The English won in a major upset and waved the body part in question at the French in defiance.

 

The puzzler was: What was this body part?

 

This is the answer submitted by a listener:

 

Dear Click and Clack,

 

Thank you for the Agincourt 'Puzzler', which clears up some profound questions of etymology, folklore and emotional symbolism. The body partwhich the French proposed to cut off of the English after defeating them was, of course, the middle finger, without which it is impossible to draw the renowned English longbow. This famous weapon was made of the native English yew tree, and so the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking yew". Thus, when the victorious English waved their middle fingers at the defeated French, they said, "See, we can still pluck yew!

 

"PLUCK YEW!"

 

 

of course, this was later debunked by snopes, but it's still funny

[A. G. Olphart]

Well, being an Olphart, I'll predictably come down on the side of courtesy and civilized behavior: Rough language detracts from the interchange of ideas.

 

Some feel they need the freedom to talk trash--- Why? Every third grader is proud to show he knows the words, but they lend to an awfully boring conversation. You have all heard people cursed by a vocabulary of four letter words (and shorter); they deliver their opinions at the top of their lungs. As if (volume + liberal profanity) = (knowledge + logic).

 

I enjoy my beer (Sierra Nevada Harvest Ale) as much as the next guy, and I choose my watering holes as carefully as my beer. I don't need a place with fights and broken bottles.

 

I cherish HybridZ as a place where everyone who drops in can relax, feel at ease, share ideas, and not be put off by a dirty rest room.

[ZR8ED]

"I am kinda somewhere in the middle on this one. I agree with Aux, that this is kind of like a bunch of guys standing around in a garage bench racing and drinking beer. You have to accept some of it and try not to take it so seriously"

 

Yup. I'm a pretty easy going guy. I aggree that we are like a bunch of guys standing around in a garage, bench racing and drinking beer.... lets keep reasonably polite, and drink premium beer!

[Georgia Flash]

This aint sunday school folks It is real life and folks from all walks of life at that. I occasionally use the $$ signs in my post because I felt it was better than just spelling out the word itself.

 

I work around people whos second language is curse words. I was in the Army for 4 years also and helped to write the book on cursing. We do have a filter because I remember a post where a guy tried to write drain c-o-c-k or something like that and it came out drain cock because of the filter. Too funny.

[A. G. Olphart]

You are absolutely correct- it is real life.

 

That makes this a real issue: Whether or not our membership chooses to drop to the lowest common denominator of language usage, or tries to maintain a somewhat higher level.

 

I too did my time in the military (courtesy of my local draft board), but have not let that period define my life, attitudes, or language.

 

I'm not a complete goody two shoes, nor am I Holier than anyone. I simply choose to play nicely.

[Georgia Flash]

Ok ok I am gonna end on this and say nothing more! When you can turn on the local radio station and hear words like G*d D**n and P***y without the ******* FCC yanking them off the air then I think the use of the word dick in the way that it was used here is not offensive. The radio show I speak of by the way is the regular guys show on 96 rock in Atlanta. Listen for yourself shithead.

 

This site is pretty ******* clean if you ask me so all the worrying and ranting is not warranted. I do not need a person to tell me how or what I should say. I am a grown ******* man and can watch after my ******* self thank you. It's as bad as all those cock heads who want the Government to step in and make new laws to take away more of our fredoms! **** man when is it going to end!

 

When I said that this aint ******* Sunday School I meant just that. Like Aux said in an earlier post on this topic there are just some times when you want to get your message across and a curse word is the only way to effectively do it mother fucker! And one more thing if you choose not to curse in your day to day life then that's great, fantastic and awesome! Just live your life and I will live mine fucker.

 

I intentionally used a number of curse words in this post to see if the filter would catch them. I put the words in bold so you could see how many it caught. Guess what it caught them all. Nuff said, lets go on to the next topic shit faces!

[Pop N Wood]

Do you feel better now?

[TomoHawk]

I will agree wil everybody on tyhis one..... sort of.

 

I do prefer to think that we are all professionals of a kind on whatever aspect of this car hobby or business, and as a professional, you know how to properly refer to a part by its name. You wouldn't be calling a piston a 'dickhead', because that's just wrong. So as a professional of a sort, you should also keep your language to a kind that is professional.

 

You might sat that you're a MAN, and as MAN, you just -have- to talk like a MAN. Well, if you really are a MAN, you'd let your manlly intelligence talk for you, instead of your hormones.

 

have a frugal day.

[Guest Nic-Rebel450CA]

Where exactly does logic dictate that it would be a good idea to continue using the potentially offensive word after it has already been addressed as a concern?

 

If you (plural) think using the word "dick" might offend someone, saying I am sorry I used the word "dick" offended you is completely stupid!

That would be like if I poked my finger in your eye and then poked my finger in your eye again while saying "sorry if doing that hurts".

I suppose according to you I could just respond by saying "quit being a d*** and pull your head out of your a**". All I said was d*** and a** which you indicated were ok... right? (BTW, that is just for referrence, I am not the type that would say something like that as an actual response..)

 

If you (plural) paid attention to the post that started the thread, you would see that the more important issue is that the potential for the language to get worse is increased the more that "acceptable" profanity gets used.

 

I guess it all boils down to the fact that some of us can communicate in an intelligent manner without using profanity, and others of us cant. If you have a post where you want to use profanity because of the nature of the situation, I think you should be asking yourself what the relevance is to this forum. I hardly see how any teaching experience could possibly warrant profanity. Has Grumpy ever used profanity when teaching us anything?

 

The purpose of this thread was to point out that it is an all-or-none type of situation... obviously every user isnt going to be capable of making the responsible decissions as to what is tollerable and decent, so if the use of the word d*** is accepted in any context then it will be used in every context that anyone wants to use it in (see above). I am just concerned with how much this site has changed in the short time that I have been here. It has gone from being a professional resource that is almost booklike in taste to heading down the path of being an "anything goes" forum.

[Guest Nic-Rebel450CA]

The morals of our country are changing and not all of us are comfortable with that.

 

I think it would be more accurate to say that the morals of our country are disappearing.

 

 

 

To everyone though, I apologize if I am a bit sensative on this issue it's just that I have always tried to maintain morals and sensativity in the society around me, and now that I am going to be bringing a child into this world I am even more resistant to all the crap around me. Sometimes I feel like I am the moody pregnant female.

[blueovalz]

Well, I can't agree more but hopefully you've gotten the first, and the last word in on this string (so far), and with that said, your point has been pressed home. This is one of those issues that parallels the Purest/Hybrid argument in that it cannot be a won debate. Because of this string though, I think everyone has become more aware of the impact of their language. Perhaps now we can go about our more technical issues.

[TomoHawk]

Good Point Terry,

 

If I want to change something or teach something to my kids, I use the "leadership by example" method. They see you doing things and how good it is, them start doing it (only one at first) themselves and you get the whole bunch doing it in the end. Kinda like the smoking policies we have now- it had to start with one person.

 

You just have to make sure that one person is YOU and you don't let up (recommending profanity-free language). Don't make a buisance of yourself, either.

 

I just don't see a place for profanity in this highly technical world we're building.

[Synlubes]

I don't know if you guys watch "The Shield' date='" but as far as TV on a regular network (FX/FOX), they no longer bleep out words. Yesterday I heart "Sh**", "bullsh**", dick, as*****e, etc. In the background of one episode, a song was playing, and the word F*** wasn't bleeped out as part of the song.

 

Southpark had an episode dedicated to the word sh**. They even kept a counter running on lower left running up something like 200 times they used the word in the span of 22 minutes for the episode. They were mocking the fact that NYPD Blue used it in one episode on NBC.

 

America is VERY mild and sheltered in every way. Look at europe and japan's tv. Germany and UK allow showing of women's breasts and partial nudity, and kids can see this. In Japan, they're allowed to show pretty much anything short of the pubic region. It's just a matter of time until it catches up here - starting with Janet Jackson's Superbowl stunt.

 

In short, our morals (haha, this is going to get to be a touchy subject!) are changing and shifting. Remember when I love Lucy became such a controvercial subject because they showed her pregnant on tv? or the fact that in old sitcoms parents had separate twin beds that they slept on? They'd never show that 40 years ago!

 

Come to think of it, rent the movie Pleasantville, it's a perfect example of transition and transformation.[/quote']

 

So how is this a good thing ?

I am an adult and don`t watch alot of TV show`s because of this.

I don`t think kids and young people need to be exposed to this kind of crap.

I`m no saint but I have some morals and values and I`m proud of it !

I will not be a follower !

Thanks Mom & Dad.

[Michael]

I would make a strong distinction between profanity as a general expression of disaffection with the world, vs. a direct attack. If I read a post about how some one got [fill in your favorite profanity]’ed by a car dealership or the DMV, and wants to share his rant, I don’t find that offensive. The man has a right to voice his frustration in the company of friends. But if one member refers to another in a post as “incompetent†or “ignorantâ€, for example – that’s offensive, even though the words in question are by themselves entirely suitable in polite company.

 

So the point is, avoid confrontational and accusatory language even if it avoids any “dirty wordsâ€, but don’t necessarily self-censor dirty words just because your third-grade English teacher would not have approved.

 

The issue of profanity reminds me of letters to the Editor at Hot Rod magazine, whenever they print pin-up photographs of women. Invariably there will be letters from irate readers, lambasting the editors for their “immoralityâ€, corruption of youth, betrayal of the public trust, and general lack of decency. I look at these remarks through the eyes of a person who used to live in a totalitarian country. They remind me so much of “betrayal of the revolution†and “enemy of the peopleâ€. The natural border for freedom of expression is not transgression of the community's sensitivities, but intentional confrontation against individuals. For which profanity and expression of “vice†are neither necessary nor sufficient.

 

I would argue that the main distinction between “now and “then†wasn’t the language per se, but the context. It used to be that the larger the common denominator, the more sanitized the language. Television, being perhaps the most common denominator of all, had tremendous and invasive limitations under the Hays code. But compare the novels of James Joyce or D.H. Lawrence – eminent writers of their day – to today’s literature. I doubt that you would find the latter “less†offensive.

 

For the older fellows on this forum, please consider how machine shops around the country looked 50, or even 20 years ago; posters of you-know-what all over the place. Walk into a machine shop today, and it’s completely sanitized. So which is the more ribald? It used to be, and in some countries is still the case, that men would never swear in the company of women, but would heartily swear when amongst themselves. We have liberalized some “traditionsâ€, but tightened others.

 

The common-denominator thinking at its core means that what’s not suitable for children should not be publicly aired. I disagree completely, because such thinking implies that it is our collective responsibility to raise each other’s children. The presumption is that kids will watch whatever is on TV, so nothing on TV should have obscenity, “if all were right in the world."

 

I would argue that the real “threat†on internet forums is that irresponsible people will hide behind the anonymity of the internet, to hurl insults without fear of reprisal or censure. It’s like going to the zoo, to poke a ferocious wild animal in the eye, without fear because the animal can’t reach out of its cage. If we expressed ourselves on the internet with the same deference to one another that we use in face-to-face conversations, the issue of profanity would be moot.

[auxilary]

I think you guys are confusing the subjects a bit. Let's simplify. By reading most of the responces, we've concluded that:

 

1. occasional profanity is ok when describing something off topic that requires color

 

2. it's not ok to use against other people

 

3. it's not commonly used to describe technical aspects of a Z swap.

 

and there you have it, it simply boils down to common sense. I use occasional profanity in my daily life. I don't feel morally guilty for doing so, and I've never been directly told "alex, you swear too much." Michael made a nice elaborate distinction between the two in the paragraph above my reply.

 

This thread will not (and has not) yielded any positive results instead of simply make members bash heads. Instead of arguing about it, people can just read past the already filtered out foul words, and move on with their lives. If it offends you, ignore it. 99.8% chance that it wasn't directed at you

 

ps. Should we ban people named Richard from this board, because their nickname denotes profanity?

[Guest Nic-Rebel450CA]

This thread will not (and has not) yielded any positive results instead of simply make members bash heads. Instead of arguing about it, people can just read past the already filtered out foul words, and move on with their lives. [b']If it offends you, ignore it. 99.8% chance that it wasn't directed at you[/b]

 

Certainly this is a possible outcome, as with any discussion, the individuals will either butt heads and never accomplish anything, or they can have a rational, mature discussion with a mutually beneficial outcome. If you think that the only outcome to a discussion is to butt heads and accomplish nothing then I think you should be open to a change.

 

I do not feel that people that are offended should have to simply skip over the language and pretend it doesnt exist, that is the purpose for starting this thread. I am pretty sure that I could offend anyone on this board with the use of profanity and not directing it at anyone in particular. Will I? No, because I am decent and have respect for others. Sure, I swear like a sailor when I am with my buddies out on the river or whatever, but in a professional venue such as this, it is not warranted, needed, or dignified. There is no need for it, and those who are offended by it should not be obligated to pretend it doesnt exist.

 

Here's an analogy:

If I am hitting you over the head with a stick, should I stop, or should you be obligated to ignore it and pretend I am not hitting you? What about if it is just a playful hit over the head? Is a new member going to know that it is just a playful hit and only playful hits are tolerable? No, they are going to get out their twaking stick and use it whenever they feel it is acceptable.

 

The point here is, not everyone is smart enough or respectful enough to use their own discression. A perfect example has already been given by those who enjoy abusing the use of a word after it has already been addressed as a concern.

[Mikelly]

Hmmm... Let's see... How do I approach this?

 

Those of you who have been to my house and attended my events have heard me....use offensive language !!

 

Word Filter - We have a word filter... and it works well. So kill that arguement.

 

As for what is right and what is wrong with using the language, I think GA Flash, Michael and Alex are right on the mark...

 

First of all folks, We don't HAVE a lot of cussing on this site. Simply put, we don't allow flame wars, we have a dirty word function that is regularly used in every post, and we moderate this site pretty heavily.

 

Now I'm gonna say this, and it is gonna offend a few... And I don't really care.

 

We don't tell folks how to run their personal lives or conduct themselves outside of here. I'm amazed that THIS topic even CAME UP on the site. This forum isn't overrun with the cockroaches of the internet BECAUSE we run it the way we do.

 

However, If my kid was a DUMBASS for running his motor out of oil in his Civic project and I say he was a DUMBASS in a post, what in GODS NAME is that hurting? His pride? His ego? If you're that darned thin skinned that these words offend you, then the problem isn't here with the site or the membership... As has been pointed out by others, this is a reality of our current world. And if you don't like the content, as My buddies Don and Mike the Disc Jockeys say "Change the station".

 

And another thing... I agree that we don't want our kids reading a bunch of filth and bad lingo... But I'm not YOUR kids parents... BE the parent. You don't want YOUR kid seeing something offensive that I WRITE? Don't L-E-T them. But don't blame me and call me a heathin' because I didn't protect YOUR kids from MY Raw chewy inner core feelings.

 

We keep this site relatively clean, but I make no apologies for the things that do get through... And if the content offends you so much that you've got to go say 10 hail mary's after a visit here, then please, by all means, change the channel...

 

Mike Kelly

[Guest Nic-Rebel450CA]

Um, Mike..

 

I think you missed the fact that this topic was started not so much because of the language that is being used, but because of where it is headed...

 

The problem is that there are too many people that dont have enough common sense to govern themselves and it will get way out of hand. If all of the moderators feel that they are up to the task then that is great, but I wouldnt be surprised if it becomes more of an issue than you think.

 

I will gladly edit the following once my point has been made:

[deleted]

Is that perfectly acceptable? I challenge you (plural) to either say that it is, or admit that it is not.