Congrats and THANK YOU to Pete Paraska for his Comments!

[Mikelly]

Last page of SPORT Z MAGAZINE's Summer issue... Pete wrote his opinion on the HybridZ transplant... I read both sides of the arguement and as ussual, Pete spoke logically, intelligently, and defended us and our cause in style.

 

Mike Kelly 8)

[johnc]

I've noticed that in today's media argument has degraded into name calling and hyperbole. Watch Hanity and Combs or any of the other Sunday morning talking head shows for perfect examples. Logic and thoughtfullness are missing.

 

That's why I liked what Pete had to say as opposed to the shrill temper tantrum of the opposing view.

[Drax240z]

Any chance you guys can post a snippit of that article for those of us that don't have sportZ?

[pparaska]

Thanks, guys.

 

Johnc: Actually, the version I wrote had even less hyperbole. But you know how editors are - they can't go without changing things a bit .

Seriously though, I didn't mind the edits to my original submission. Bob did a good job adding some bits to the end to point to the poll that they'd taken that I hadn't seen yet and making it look like "Point-Counterpoint".

 

Oh, the things like "C'mon" and "like this guy over here" - I didn't write that either - but it makes for interesting reading to have a bit of the old "point-counterpoint" style . "Jane, you ignorant slut", etc. Wow, I'm dating myself with that last bit!

 

Bob, thanks for giving me a chance at that and some good editting!

 

Jeff Sagan, who is that guy anyway?

 

Drax204Z: Maybe Art Singer (ZSport) could post the text of both sides of the argument here, or put it on their website for people to read and link to it here? I don't want to do it, since I don't want to get into any copyright issues.

[SportZ2]

Hey Pete, here is the article. And it was Dave who takes your original copy and makes it a little more edgy. There goes the secret That was the idea for the article (Jane Curtain and Dan Akroyd from SNL) And for the people who have the guts to post that they don't subscribe to Sport Z but want to know what's going on. GET OFF THE FENCE and subscribe. lol

 

And just a little fyi: Mr K actually owned a V8 Z back in the day. Go figure.

 

The V8: Good, Bad, or Just Plain Ugly?

 

Good!

By Pete Paraska

 

I’m a firm proponent of the American V8 as a valid option for the engine used in an individual’s Datsun Z. That said, I’m also a proponent of putting anything from rotaries, turbocharged 4-cylinders, and even electric motors into the Z—as long as it has enough power for the determined use (sports/GT, street car, race car, dragster, etc.).

What makes the American V8 so appealing? In the US, parts are cheap and plentiful. The small-block Chevrolet V8 design has more effective and inexpensive performance parts than any other engine ever made.

The disadvantages of using the American V8 in the Datsun Z are fictional. They include added weight (not necessarily true), and understeer. Using aftermarket aluminum parts and a lightweight starter, the small-block Chevrolet V8 actually weighs the same as or less than the Nissan L6. And since it is a shorter engine, the V8 can be easily “set-back†in the car, preserving or even improving the stock 49/51 weight distribution. The only type of understeer I experience is when I mash the gas pedal while going around a curve!

The Z has always been a modifier’s car. The aftermarket for it was immediate and grew to be quite extensive, and it continues to exist 30+ years later. In fact, the first swap of an American V8 into a Z happened over 30 years ago.

Sometimes I hear that an American V8 “ruins the Z car,†or “goes against its designer’s intent.†C’mon. I used to get into the “V8 or not†Z car debates. I came to realize that if people couldn’t at least see that a V8 swap was a valid option, they were arguing from an irrational, emotional point of view. Just like Jeff over here. It’s as if all of us must agree with his particular brand of Z religion. Well, as the poll below indicates, most enthusiasts don’t.

 

Bad and Ugly

by Jeff Sagan

 

Only a moron with more money than brains would deface a classic work of art. Add some color to that Picasso etching. Enlarge the breasts on the Venus de Milo. That is what is happening every day to classic Datsun 240Zs and it’s happening at an alarming rate.

Yes, the Datsun 240Z is a classic work of automotive art. It is recognized as a modern classic (post 1947) and one of the ten most important cars in US automotive history. The 240 is a rolling piece of art—classic beauty captured in sheet metal—and a pinnacle of automotive design. But today the 240Z has replaced the 32 Ford Three Window Coupe (Deuce Coupe) of the ’50s and ’60s as the 1990s Street Rodder’s staple. The beautiful bodylines of the 240Z combined with its lightweight unibody make it irresistible to the hackers and modifiers.

As justification for the decimation of beauty, the hot rodders would tell you that there are plenty of 240Zs to satisfy both them and the classic car collectors. Nonsense! In total, about 150,000 240Zs were sold in the US. By comparison, 118,000 ’63-67 Corvette Stingrays and 1,700,000 ’64-69 Mustangs were sold. How many do you see today? Ford sold about 16,000 1955 Thunderbirds—now highly collectible and worth from $25,000 to $45,000. Between 1970 and ’71 Nissan sold about 18,000 Series I 240Zs.

Yes, it’s a free country—everyone has the right to deface just about anything they own. Nonetheless these “rights†are bound by personal responsibilities. Anyone can hack up a classic car but that is no justification for doing it.

The heart and soul of any fine automobile is its engine. Do Mustang or Corvette owners transplant their engines with those from Japan? Hell no. Tearing the heart and soul out of a 240Z only to transplant an American V8 is simply barbaric.

[pparaska]

Hey Pete, here is the article. And it was Dave who takes your original copy and makes it a little more edgy.

 

Well then, thanks, Dave .

 

There goes the secret That was the idea for the article (Jane Curtain and Dan Akroyd from SNL)

 

Oops. I didn't mean to let out any secrets! That one slipped. Oh well, no hard feelings, I hope!

 

And for the people who have the guts to post that they don't subscribe to Sport Z but want to know what's going on. GET OFF THE FENCE and subscribe. lol

 

I was wondering if anyone would post that .

 

And just a little fyi: Mr K actually owned a V8 Z back in the day. Go figure.

 

That I want to know the story on! Will Sport Z Magazine do a story on that? I'd LOVE to see that documented!

 

Oh, and thanks for posting the article .

 

Guys, really, the magazine is getting better all the time! Subscribe, darn it! I have a two year subscription currently - paid in full by yours truly, and done so without reservation.

[Tim240z]

Yeah, it doesn't cost that much...do it already.....it's actually a decent rag.

[auxilary]

I always wanted to see a side by side comparison of an intelligent presentation of one side of the argument alongside one written by a high school kid.

 

One thing I find funny is that (and I;m not trying to start a new argument) is that Z owners break up into 3 categories like omnivores (most people), vegetarians, and vegans.

 

-We have the guys that'll put anything into a 240z, change the body lines, etc. That's most of us, meat and veggie eaters.

 

-Then we have the nissan only bandwagon, claiming that only motors that belong in a Z are nissan. So it's ok to stuff an rb26dett into a 240Z because it's still a nissan motor. That's vegetarians: against meat, but ok to eat things like fish, milk, eggs, etc.

 

-Finally, we have the ultimate purist: the guy that will shun both the hybridz owner and the bandwagoneer (or sackrider, if you prefer the modern terminology) for even TOUCHING something inside the engine bay unless it's a NOS replacement. "What? H4 lights in a 240z? blasphemy! Those aren't original!" Compare that to the vegan, who will shun vegeterians for eating any product of an animal: no eggs, no milk, no caviar, etc.

 

Which brings to mind another question: what will the ultimate purist do when NOS parts are all but gone?

[quicker240]

It is so much fun to see both sides of the fence.I personally love the cars in either setup.The Z is just great in stock form,like he said,a work of design art.It is also great when modified,performance on a level rivaling or exceeding the best performance automobiles on the planet.Shame on him for implying that his view is in any way"right",or that my view is in some way inferior to his.We all just love cars.I respect so much,the guy that puts a new coat of wax on his yugo,or a bling bling muffler on his stock civic.Its a desire to make that car a reflection of his own individuality,shame on any of us who belittles him.If he wants a concours stock car, that is his business. I will see it at the show for what it is,a fine example of auto history deserving of appreciation.I would also hope that he would see other peoples cars as their right to free expression.If he truly loves cars,then he must also accept that we are all different and have just as much right as him to have a car as we each like it.Just my humble opinion.

[Mikelly]

I learned long ago in the Ron Stoy battles, that no matter how intelligent a person, you can't reason with someone who is beyond factual practicle thinking... Throw in opinion-based emotion, and you can chuck any ounce of hope that the person might hear and understand your point of view.

 

Comparing the Z to a 32 Ford, first Gen T-bird, or most other "American Icon" cars is just laughable... Why? They have HUGE aftermarket support... If the Z was such a desirable piece of Americana, why is it that we have the least aftermarket support of any of the top ten most influential cars?

 

Do I love my Zcar? Damn skippy I do. But I am under no illusion... We won't see the kinda money that these other "Icons" are pulling down at a Barrett Jackson Auction.

 

Jeff Sagan's opening remarks about MORONs putting V8s in Zcars is laughable... There must be some of the highest paid morons on the planet running around this BB... GeeZ...

 

And Get off your arses and ORDER THE FREAKIN' MAGAZINE ALREADY!

Mike

[pparaska]

Guys, just maybe the "bad and ugly" side was tongue-in-cheek?

 

I actually liked the 32 Ford to Z analogy. I agree with Mike about the differences in the aftermarket for them, but I like to go to street rod events (cruise-ins, Ocean City MD street rod events) more than I do Z only events. So I guess I'm more into street rods than just seeing Z's. My Z gets ALL positive attention at street rod events. The atmosphere is more tense about my car at an all-Z event.

[Tim240z]

My Z gets ALL positive attention at street rod events. The atmosphere is more tense about my car at an all-Z event.

 

Hit the nail on the head there, Pete

[Ivan280zt]

UPDATE: Just got off my ass, ordered every past issue available, will be getting two year subscription as soon as i move out next month . END

 

Ivan

[maichor]

Oops, I hope that that guy Jeff Sagan, doesn't see what I have done to my car

 

I got my car specifically to do the Velo Rossa kit. To me the 240Z was just a donor. That was until I took picked one up. Like others have said, I think the stock 240Z is beautiful. But, if they are so valuable, how come you can still find people giving them away. I found a Z car online and went to see the car. The guy was meeting me in Waco from somewhere near San Antonio. I was driving down from Dallas to meet him. He called and said the rear end was smoking and said I could have the car if I drove down the extra hour. I did, but felt bad for the guy. The car wasn' t a rust bucket, but had some rust and several other problems (i.e. Brakes, wiring, exhaust, etc.) So, I game him $100 and he gave me the title.

 

I tell the story because even in its rough form, I saw the potential. The motor sounded like a vintage Ferrari and the springs were shot and so the car was riding low. That said, the car smelled, had holes in the floorboards and was scary to drive.

 

So, making the Velo Rossa became my hobby. And, I just have to say. Every time I go into the garage, I drool with anticipation for its completion. I am beginning year 4 on it. It won't be long now!

 

And, as far as "more money than brains", I would wager that a ground up restoration of a Z would come out to be more money than I have spent on my project. I use my brains to save money. I use parts from other cars, or build my own. Prior to this, my fabrication skills consisted of watching my brother weld my shock mounts on when I broke them off my Jeep. I have learned a ton from this and gained an appretiation for the car. Who knows, I may just do that restoration back to stock glory someday. Not on this car though. Nothing original will mount back in the car!

[Guest ON3GO]

I loved the read in sport Z and i must say this....

as a young person on this forum that has been building a hybridz of some sorts for over a year now and also a owner of a few Z's i must say not everybody that makes a hybridZ is rich.. im NOT by a long shot. yes i have some money in my Hulk Z but thats only because i have good taste and that = $$$$$$$!

i could have done it way cheaper but its my baby and if she wants the best she will get it.

now to the purist, i hate them, yes they have some nice Z's but none NONE of them can touch my Hulk Z, in anything.. to me atleast

 

Mike

[Michael]

It amuses me when automobiles are compared to masterpiece paintings, sculptures, etc. The purists say that modifying car XYZ is like “Add[ing] some color to that Picasso [painting]â€. Hmm… I wonder if Picasso painted the exact same painting 500,000 times on an assembly line, inside a factory, using machines to hold the brush and mix the paint.

 

I prefer to think of modifying a car as modifying a $10 poster-print of the Picasso on sale at Wal-Mart. Sure, the poster is a rendition of a great work of art, but it’s just a mass-produced facsimile. Adding color to the poster does nothing to defame Picasso’s original. If the incandescent lamp lighting my room makes the poster’s colors look pale, I’ll go ahead and alter them – because it’s my poster, and my $10.

[SportZ2]

Being associated with Sport Z, I like both views. Now with that out of the way. You do not have to be rich to convert a Z. I'm living proof of it. By the time I'm done with the first conversion (next Monday is start day) I will have put less than $2000 into it. Granted, it's not the top of the line everythjing, but it will be fuctional, look very clean and will have some novel things done to it. And all on a budget. That's part of what the article will be about. Not how to make a $10,000+ monster, but how to make a $2000- converasion think it's a monster and of coarse the scarab vs setback debate. But we won't open that can of worms yet. And as far as the purist side, the car will look bone stock interior and exterior wise except for the wheels and upgraded brakes (front only-remember budget).

 

Mike, hate is a strong word. remember, we want to bring them over to the dark side so they can see the light.

[Guest ON3GO]

yes i know its a strong word, but when i have some body say they think my car is pure junk because i have aftermaket suspension and 17inch wide wheels and im cutting the fenders, and turboing it and etc... then i get pissed off. considering im only 20 years old and have ALL my money and hard work into it.

im sorry..

i just feel that you by the car as a blank sheet and its up to you what you want to do with it to make it truly yours..

 

mike

[zeeboost]

I hear ya Mike! If somebody gets mad at me for improving my car with my hard-earned money, screw them! That’s their opinion, and it doesn’t matter. Besides, get them to prove how their pure Z is so much better than yours on the track, and you’d leave them crying. I mean, if you think about it, they’re getting mad at you for improving your Z’s suspension, brakes, grip, and power – basically opening up the chassis’s potential.

 

If there’s one Z I could argue about butchering, it would be the Series I. I can see the Series I being a collectable, but a lot of people don’t tear into those. Not too long ago on eBay I saw a well-done L28et conversion into a pristine Series I – no complaints here. Hell, even if you throw in a sbc I still wouldn’t complain, it’s just that if I had the choice to restore or beef her up, I would definitely rather restore the Series I.

 

I once was thinking that I should just stay true to Nissan and throw in a turbo 6, and even though that turbo sounds good when it spools up, it just can’t beat the sound of a sbc’s low grumble as it glides along the highway with ease.

 

Oh yeah, and I know what you’re talking about not having money. I’m 19 (younger than you – HAH! ) trying to afford rent, college, and improve the car by all means. I pray every night that she doesn’t break on me, but I think sometimes the man upstairs gets bored and entertains himself by watching me react to something breaking on the car (say for example, the heater hose that busted and sent coolant gushing all over the interior of the car). But, the compliments that I get on it is worth the trouble, even in its primered shell.

[SportZ2]

Try not to stray to far from what the original question was. It's about using a V8, not about suspension, brakes, or turbo swaps. I can't beleive that even a purist would object to a better suspension and brakes because he will say that it doesn't take away from the original concept of what the Z is about or looks like.

 

What you should be talking about is in the response to Pete of what Jeff said. He asked the question, do Mustangs and Corvette's use Japanese engines instead of V8's. He said hell no. And he's right. They already have the best powerplant in them, why mess with perfection. And when you do find a Mustang with a straight six in it, you'll find that most people will switch to the V8 and I don't think they consider that bastardizing the car. But then again I don't talk to too many Ford owners.