Dead Roman Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Hey guys. lemmie start by saying im 20 i run my fathers business and i make a decent living but im not going anywhere. Recently thought about attending college, but have yet to find a feild that interests me and im not going to force myself into something. The military has always appealed to me but i have a few reservations about the current state of the world that have caused me to relenquish my interest in joining the armed forces. I still feel the need to serve my country though, so i have fostered a growing interest in law enforcement. I realise LE plays a huge role in our country and i feel its every bit as noble a calling as the military. Maybe with my love of shoot i could one day find myself filling a spot as a sharpshooter . I dont know what the point of this post is aside from im at a crossroads in my life where,while im doing well and i am content, i dont see my life going in any direction. i just wanted to hear some of your thoughts. I know everyone at some point finds themsellf in the same position i am in, i figure you guys could give me some good advice. Dustin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerware Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 I am sure we have all found ourselves at a crossroad once or twice. I am 30 now. One more semester away from finishing frad school. I feel that the last 10 years has been kind of a waste in the fact that I am now doing what I want. So, my advice is do the one thing that makes you happy doing it. Maybe you haven't found it yet, maybe you really have. But life is too short working as many hours as we do doing something you don't want to do. If the police department is what you want then go for it. Find a few good cops and talk a lot to them. Do what ever you can to learn about it. There is also nothing wrong with college. Just talk to as many people in what ever field it is that you might be interested in first. So many people that I know went to school for one thing and now are doing something completely different. So don't waste all the college time and money for nothing. Just do some soul searching. But you are only 20. Plenty of time to live a little and learn. Good luck and happy trails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Serving in LE is just as noble and necessary as having/serving in the military. I say, "follow your gut". just my .02, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAW Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Law enforcement doesn't necessarily imply gumshoe with coffee and doughnut in hand. If you are drawn to it then go for it; but not in some half-baked manner. If you are going to be a bear; then go for being a grizzly bear. Think FBI, anti-terror CIA, etc. Push yourself hard. If you fail, so what? At least you tried your best. DAW, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilj Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 definately is a fun thing i would say. i'm 19 years old, to be 20 soon and i'm at the same point in my life. trying to decide what to do for the rest of my life and it sucks because every time i think of something it always changes. i suggest you go talk to a few people that have done it and see what they have to say. i really have been thinking of going into that field myself, seems like it'd be interesting. something you could go to work everyday and something different happens.. thats all i want =P GL deciding, and remember.. even if you do follow through with that.. you're not really committing to anything. you can always try something else. -Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Let me give you a look from the other side of the fence... I've got a degree in criminal justice. I also was the youngest candidate to go through and pass the federal law enforcement academy's basic 8 week training course and their advanced course, at the ago of 20. I've worked as a park ranger, local police officer, a local police volunteer and federal police officer. From the time I was 18 until I walked away from law enforcement as a career at the age of 22, I thought I had found the right career. A career in law enforcement can be a noble cause. It can be very rewarding if a person is of the mind that they are truly in it for the right reasons. "To Protect and Serve the Community" is what it says on the doors of most police cars, or somewhere on something displayed to the public. If you can remember that every citizen is innocent until proven guilty, and that we all do things out of stupidity and sometimes honestly don't know we are breaking a law that may be on the books, and if you can use the scales of justice theory to apply fair and balanced judgement on when to apply those laws, then I'd say go for it. However, the older I get, the more I think about becoming a member of the ACLU. There are to many police officers in this country who simply do NOT fully understand the laws they are supposedly enforcing. To many of these clowns are to busy getting a freebee from the local fast food joint, or impressing that pretty young girl with his machismo BS. They say that absolute power corrupts absolutely and I see it every few days or read about it somewhere locally. It is hard to remember that you are hired to PROTECT AND SERVE everyone. EVERYONE... Far to little oversight is provided to keep these clowns in check. I left law enforcement after being offered careers in Dallas, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Miami, and Chicago. I had been working with a youth squad in Washington DC, collecting the underaged hustlers and prostitutes off the street, getting in touch with their families, buying them bus tickets and sending them on their way... Only to find them dead in an alley right back 9on the streets two or three weeks later. I found myself becoming cold to the world around me, and I was forgetting why I was doing this job. I also was fortunate enough at 22 to be able to have another career with the agency handed to me. My hair was longer, and I looked much less like a cop and much more like a college student... One day a cop came to my house because a neighbor complained that I had been speeding up and down the road in my car.. It was up on blocks and all four wheels were off... I was preping it for a track event... this cop saw a long haired young guy with an attitude and he just dressed me down... He ripped me appart verbally and threatened to arrest me. I took his badge number and that of his car, and when he left, I called his boss, the Sherrif. I met with them three days later and the officer formally apologized, and was written up. That officer and 7 others were eventually arrested for breaking into toystores at Christmas, and steeling $100,000+ worth of merchandise... There needs to be reform. Law enforcement officers need to be hired under extensive back ground checks that continue periodically. They need to be made to file a financial disclosure form to make sure they aren't financially in over their heads, which tends to force them into a life of lost morals and over-use of power. There needs to be reform to keep officers honest. Are there good cops? Sure. But I'd wager a bet that there are more bad cops than good... How bad is subjective. But my view is that we have a set of laws I have to live by... Those who play this game from the other side fo the fence are required to play by them as well. When an officer makes a stop, I have my rights, as do most other citizens (Convicted Felons give up many of their rights when they leave jail). Problem is that most citizens don't know WHAT their rights truly are or when an overzealous officer has stepped over the line. So now lets look at the lifestyle of a law enforcement officer... Do you know that cops suffer the HIGHEST rate of divorce and also suffer the third highest rate of suicide as a profession? Used to be second highest. but another profession (forget which one, slips my mind right now) bumped them a few years back... Dentistry used to be number one... But take comfort in knowing that being a cop can kill you. You will eventually marry a woman and have a family. Most likely you will get divorced from that woman because you will work through the holidays, your kids birthday, or your anniversary. You will be in divorce court and then you will be seriosuly strapped for cash because $500 a month will go towards child support. Guess what? You will probably hook up with another woman and you stand a good chance of divorcing her as well. Your potential cycle of failed marriages will continue for a host of reasons. On top of that, you won't make much of a living unless you are working lots of hours in overtime, which means you might be able to afford to pay that child support, but won't have much time for nothing else. Quality of life goes out the window and you will know little else except work and sleep... feeding to the issues I mention above. Now lets talk about all those children you will likely father... They will grow up with a daddy that is a "COP", which will be cool all the way through Junior High. They will miss you and will buy the bogus excuse of "Daddy has to go catch bad people" for a while... But by the time your kids are in high school, they will be hip to daddy's real purpose in life... And it won't be pleasent dealing with them once they find out. Pretty grim picture I painted in this book I'm writting, Huh? Law enforcement can be noble. Make no bones about it, there are some really good hearted men and women who do this job, and who make themselves a target every day by strapping on a badge and a gun. But make sure it is for you... Check your ego at the door, and figure out if this is something you will be able to survive and do, knowing that you are there to protect and serve us all... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 I think mike is right. For some, not saying you are this way, but a little power in the wrong hands goes along way, We've all seen it on the news, and some in person sad to say. If your really seriously interested, and I've known severeal old timers that were and are now retired, take seriously the vow to "serve and protect", not "bust ass and arrest" and several that are using it to extend their racial hatred of blacks, hispanics and what they refer to as "low life scum". Law enforcement officers are the "judge" in the field. Do that, with compassion for Law and a desire to "help" the people. For instance, I had a bolt bin in the back of my truck that was shrink wrapped to a pallet of bolts, nuts, washers, etc. that I just bought for 1300 bucks. While driving down the interstate the wind was pushing the bolt bin against the tailgate, effectively stretching the shrink wrap. The latches broke, I have replaced them, so the tailgate would close again and for court. The bolt bin flew out and onto the freeway at rush hour and remarkably and luckily nobody hit it. However they didn't stop either, so there I am on the inside median stop lane, even with this bolt bin in the highway and nobody stops. Dial 911 to get assistance in removing this obviously dangerous obstacle before a tradjedy strikes. Up drives Officer Walker with the DOT. Another vehicle stops to assist. He stops traffic in the inner two lanes closest to the median and orders me and two guys to carry the bolt bin to the opposite side of the road across 3 more lanes of moving traffic. We do not, instead we hustle it over to my waiting truck across one lane of stopped traffic and put it in the back. To which he cites the two helpers for failing to obey a federal officer and me for an unsecured load, while not even looking at the broken latches on my 3/4 ton dodge. Moving the bin across three lanes of moving traffic in the opposite direction of my truck was not in the best interest of my safety or that of anybody else in my opinion. The bystanders just stopped to help and they get tickets as do I. Court day. The bystanders and I show up, the officer does not, despite three phone calls from the court clerk who actually talked to him all three times and reminded him that he was late for court. Judge let us all go and cancelled the tickets. Just another example of complete BS, wasted time, wasted court resources, productivity, and endless harrassing crap from a bad example of law enforcement. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the message, I don't mind you following your calling, I just ask that if I meet you on opposite sides of the fence, that you do your job and treat me with the same respect that I will treat you and that you follow the letter of the law with compassion. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKDGabe Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Mike and David have excellent points. The best officers that I've known had lots of life experience and knew what it was like to be an ordinary (read: not law enforcement) person and thus weren't hardnosed jerks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Roman Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 So now lets look at the lifestyle of a law enforcement officer... Do you know that cops suffer the HIGHEST rate of divorce and also suffer the third highest rate of suicide as a profession? Used to be second highest. but another profession bumped them a few years back... Dentistry used to be number one... But take comfort in knowing that being a cop can kill you. You will eventually marry a woman and have a family. Most likely you will get divorced from that woman because you will work through the holidays, your kids birthday, or your anniversary. You will be in divorce court and then you will be seriosuly strapped for cash because $500 a month will go towards child support. Guess what? You will probably hook up with another woman and you stand a good chance of divorcing her as well. Your potential cycle of failed marriages will continue for a host of reasons. On top of that, you won't make much of a living unless you are working lots of hours in overtime, which means you might be able to afford to pay that child support, but won't have much time for nothing else. Now lets talk about all those children you will likely father... They will grow up with a daddy that is a "COP", which will be cool all the way through Junior High. They will miss you and will buy the bogus excuse of "Daddy has to go catch bad people" for a while... But by the time your kids are in high school, they will be hip to daddy's real purpose in life... Mike that paragraph is one of the main things thats making me apprehensive. Across th estreet from me live the sheriffs of 2 cities, mine a a neighboring sity. The sheriff from my town lives in the garage of the other sheriff. The guy is 32 years old recently divorced with a kid that isnt even 1 yet. The other fellow i think is a shining example of what a police officer should be. He is one of the biggest reasons ive been considering law enforcement. zHe and i are trying to get a few ride alongs set up so i can see what its like on the job. Obviously i ulitmately want to be a swat shart shooter or if possible and if i prove good enough HRT or some other type of federal anti terrorist team. Im a shooter, and i feel that LE is a good field to apply that skill in without joining the military. Thanks for all of your input everyone, guess i got some more research an soul searching to de before i really make a decision Dustin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Enjoyed your post Mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilj Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Definately not something to be taken lightly, however... there are down sides to everything and you can't let that stop you from doing something you'd enjoy. There are also a lot of jobs that are 'higher up.' You can always look at the investigation side of things, such as forensic science and what not. I personally want to do something federal, not state or local. Like I've seen stated here many times, you have to be sure you can take responsibility for what you're doing. To be compassionate to everyone yet still do your job. It takes a certain personality to do the job, and a lot of the cops I've met don't have it. It seems like every time I'm doing the right thing, working torwards what the 'law' says... they bust my ass down and make it hard for me to go on. I hate cops that have 'the attitude,' it's horrible how they can have no mercy. Most can't put 2 and 2 together, they just want another 'positive thing' on their record. Anyways, enough rambling... Go where your heart takes you. You can always turn back and find something else. If you havn't heard about customs & immigration hiring, I think the total is about 14 thousand jobs (don't count on that, I know customs is around 4k). Good Luck finding what makes you happy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhadman Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 First things first. Where do you live? Rural/small communities generally require less education and life experience than a big-city PD. The pay in these areas is also generally quite low... For example: *An officer in Moore, Oklahoma (RIGHT outside Oklahoma City) makes, on average $24-30k a year. *An officer in Ontario, California (an hour south/south-east'ish of Los Angeles) makes, on average $60-65k a year. I know that most departments here in sunny (not right now, damn it!) So Cal look highly upon a college degree and/or some military service. Life experience, a clean and professional work history and (sometimes) continuing education factor HEAVILY into a PD's decision to hire you. 1) First you must apply. 2) Once you pass this pre-screening you must take a physical aptitude test and, in some cases, a written exam (which, I have been told, occasionally doubles as a psych-eval). 3) You must sit in front of an oral-board where you will be bombarded, by a panel of department personnel, with all types of questions regarding your criminal record (or lack-thereoff), work history, reasons for desiring employment in the LE profession, and why YOU would be a good candidate for any position available. They will also ask you questions to see how you would 'initially', with no training, respond to certain situations that officers routinely encounter. 4) If you have aquired enough 'points' (you score points depending on how well you accomplish all of the above), AND they are seriously considering you as a candidate, they will do a background investigation. In some cases these investigations take up to a year to accomplish. If they complete your background and you are clean you might be hired. If you are hired you will have to... 5) Go to the police academy... an institution very similar to military boot camp. Something to think about: A department may have 2 positions available for officers. They will, routinely, recieve upwards of 300-400 applications. The list of applicants is narrowed down to around 20 (or so). You must be a better candidate than 18 other people. Do not be discouraged if you do not make it the first time you apply. Continue to learn, continue to work, stay dedicated to your goal. The next time you apply they might look at what you've been doing since your last application. Put yourself in a position to show them that you have been moving FORWARD in your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Yup, good comments... I applied to one vacancy when I was 21 and there were over 200 candidates who showed up for the written and physical testing. I was one of 6 officers who were selected for hire. I turned them down upon learning that they would not honor the salary agreement for the first 6 months, as I would be considered on "probation". I told them I wasn't planning to take a salary cut of $18,000. Pretty much confirmed for me that you need everything in writting from the beginning... I stayed with CIA... The example of $60K+ to work in OceanSide California, or anywhere in southern California needs to be tempered with the cost of living... My guess is our young friend here is not paying $1000 rent for an appartment... I know when i was looking at employment options when offered a job at the USA network back in 1997, I came away from my little experience with stickershock. It costs a LOT to live in sunny southern california. Oh, and FWIW, The CIA extends application offers to less than 2% of all those who inquire... less than 2% of all those applicants are hired. Talk about a tough organization to gain acceptance from! The original poster mentioned he is a "Shooter". I'd highly recommend getting yourself evaluated on your intelligence, phsycological stability/ evaluation, as well as physical ability. This will tell you if you qualify before you even go through the headache of jumping these hoops! It takes a lot more than being a "good" shot to become a member of a swat or Instant Response team... Every officer that went through the federal police academy HAD to pass the range with Marksman certification... Sharpshooter was awarded to 40% of my class with 12 of us being eligable for Swat status based on our shooting alone... Which, as our instructors told us, means nothing without the above areas being passed as well... Phsycological evaluations remove most candidates from consideration for Swat or other alternative operations teams. Remember, City, state amd goverment agencies work like businesses. They are putting a gun in your hand and telling you to make a mortal decision to shoot someone and kill them, potentially injuring or killing others. They open themselves up to a liability that is unfathemable. Therefore, not just ANY good shooter gets the chance to pull the trigger for real! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Mike, thanks for your post. I have read quite a few news stories and discussions about civil rights abuse and misconduct by LEOs in the last several years. However, I have stopped saying anything about it when the topic arises. Without a background and first-hand experience like yours, I apparently don't have enough credibility. So I'm glad you're around to share. I also believe the police serve a valuable function when they are protecting our rights, and I encourage everyone to read about what has happened to this country since the "war on drugs" befell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Oh, and if you are a white male applying in a large urban area you had better be extremely well qualified. College, military experience, a relative already on the force. Minorities and women get bonus points regardless of qualifications. It puts white males at a disadvantage that is hard to overcome. Not passing judgement. Simply stating a fact. Sharpshooter is nice but probably doesn't do a lot for the average patrolman. The average officer involved shooting occurs at ranges of less than 10 feet over open terrain. Most of the used cop revolvers I see in gun stores don't have much in the way of sights. Also be wary of what you might be doing as a new officer. New LA county sherriff's spend the first part of their carreers working the jail. Honestly I can't believe how far this thread digressed from the original question. Don't worry about society's impression of cops and do what is right for you. Can be a stable carreer as long as you understand what you are getting yourself into before you start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Pop-N-Wood, The kid asked for advice since he is "At a cross roads" and is "Asking for our advice". So how did this thread deviate from his original post??? We're giving him food for thought, some insite into what potentially happens in one's life through the decisions they make, and the avenues they take in life... Last thing we need is another bad one... enough of them to go around... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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