who's looking over your shoulder ? your insurance company ?

[waynekarnes]

30 million cars now record drivers' behavior

 

The Christian Science Monitor | December 28, 2004

By Eric C. Evarts

 

It was only a matter of time. For several years, electronic devices in cars have monitored acceleration and braking to save fuel and improve safety. Now, they're saving some of that data to give automakers and police a better idea of how you drive.

 

So far most of the devices record the last five seconds of readings before a crash, for example, a little like flight-data recorders in airplanes. The information has proven extremely useful to auto designers and accident investigators. It's also being used to prosecute drivers.

 

"The problem is most people don't realize these devices are in their vehicle," says Eric Skrum, spokesman for the National Motorists Association in Madison, Wis. "That information can be used against you, and there's no sort of regulation about who owns that information."

 

Already, drivers have had data from their own cars used to convict them. Last month, Danny Hopkins of New York was sentenced to 5 to 15 years in prison for killing Lindsay Kyle after the black box in his Cadillac CTS indicated the car was going 106 miles per hour five seconds before the crash. Investigators originally thought the car was going only 65 to 70 miles per hour. In St. Louis, Clifton McIntire of Phippsburg, Me., pleaded guilty to manslaughter last month after the black box in his GMC pickup revealed that he was going 85 miles an hour before he slammed into the back of a Toyota.

 

Today an estimated 30 million cars contain these "black boxes" — they're actually silver — known as event data recorders (EDRs). Most record simple data such as whether airbags deployed or if passengers wore seatbelts. But most cars from General Motors and Ford, as well as some Toyotas and Hondas, track even more information, including vehicle and engine speed, and whether the driver was accelerating or braking.

 

Automakers say they want this information to help improve safety equipment. "The main purpose of the EDR is to get data after a crash to help us understand how the airbags worked," says Alan Adler, manager of product-safety communications at General Motors in Warren, Mich. "The privacy of our customers is very important to us, but [the device] doesn't record anything that isn't true."

 

Crash investigations

 

Without EDRs, investigators frequently don't have enough data to pinpoint the cause of an accident, says Joe Osterman, director of the Office of Highway Safety at the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in Washington. That was the case when an elderly man killed 20 people when his Buick plowed into a farmers market in Santa Monica, Calif. in 2000. The driver said he was braking. Witnesses and investigators said he was accelerating.

 

While what exactly happened in the moments before the tragedy remains a mystery, the NTSB went on record afterward saying EDRs should be mandatory in all cars sold in the United States.

 

The NTSB, however, doesn't have the authority to mandate black boxes. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration does. It proposes that the recorders become standard equipment starting in 2009 models, retain the last eight seconds of data before a crash, and include added data from electronic stability control and antilock braking systems.

 

Civil libertarians worry that such data will be used more broadly in the future.

 

"This is another example of where technology has outstripped the law and certain assumptions of how the world works," says Jay Stanley, director of communications for the Technology and Liberty Project at the American Civil Liberties Union in New York.

 

Some safety experts also worry about the wrong people using the data. While Mr. Osterman of the NTSB favors police investigators using black-box data in criminal investigations, he worries that private experts hired in civil litigation may have biases and could take the data at face value instead of cross-checking it.

 

"The data can be misleading if you're not a seasoned accident reconstructionist," adds Bob Kreeb, an engineer at Booz Allen Hamilton in Washington who chaired a committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers to set standards for the data gathered from black boxes. "So it needs to be interpreted and validated."

 

Installing black boxes with five seconds worth of memory was as simple as adding a memory chip to existing computer systems in cars. Increasing the memory to several months' worth of data would not be difficult at all, Mr. Stanley says. "If GM decided tomorrow to track three months of data instead of five seconds, there's nothing that would make them have to tell anybody," he adds.

 

Tracking the teens

 

In fact, Davis Instruments of Hayward, Calif., sells a black box called CarChip that will record throttle position and engine parameters for up to 300 hours of driving. Parents can use it to monitor their teenagers' driving habits, for example.

 

Progressive, an auto-insurance company, is running a pilot program with 5,000 drivers in Minnesota using a device similar to CarChip. It records up to six months of driving data, including vehicle mileage, time of day, and speed. The program, called TripSense, lets drivers choose whether to hand over data from their recorders to the insurer. Based on their habits behind the wheel, they can get discounts on their premiums of 5 to 25%.

 

But once any data is collected, some worry that it might be subpoenaed. If a police officer pulls you over while you're not speeding, "will your EDR tell him that five miles or five days earlier you were?" asked AutoWeek magazine's Bob Gritzinger in a November article.

 

Recorder data may also present problems for drivers with automobile warranties. Some wonder if vehicle manufacturers are using safety data to void warranties. Some people in Internet chat rooms have alleged Mitsubishi is doing just that to those who drive its racy Evolution VIII in amateur weekend races.

 

Even if not true, the existence of such stories shows people's concerns about this kind of technology, says Stanley. "If it's not controlled, it allows powerful institutions to increase their control over ordinary individuals," he says.

 

For example: When AutoWeek conducted handling tests on a mundane Chevy Malibu Maxx hatchback earlier this year, the recorder automatically alerted GM OnStar officials, who called the car to make sure the driver was OK after a particularly severe cornering maneuver. The driver was, but later said he resented the intrusion.

[Tim240z]

All the more reason to drive old Z cars and pre-technology vehicles.....

 

I bet the aftermarket comes up with an override device!

[Synlubes]

Like it or not it’s coming! Not just in automobiles.

It could be a good thing when someone says they didn’t, but they really did.

Why should a guilty person with a dirty lawyer go free!

On the other hand, why should an innocent person get convicted due to a broken system and or a dirty lawyer?

 

If you don’t do wrong you have less to worry about.

* notice I did not say you have nothing to worry about.

Be afraid, be very afraid!

I hate a liar!

[datsunlover]

Iteresting, yet scarry at the same time.. I have a friend who works as a tech at the local Ford dealership. He told me about this system, and how they can use it sometimes to figure out when/why a problem happened with the ECU or other systems. Case in point, an 04' Taurus came in a few months ago with the check engine light on, not running quite right. ???

 

So my friend hooks up the scaner and pulls codes/memory to see whats up; Last recorded vehicle speed was 197 KPH. I guess there was something about a governer kicking in (?) , but the speed was brought back up again a few times...Either way, it put the car in a limp mode of some sort. My friend showed the customer, and the guy said; "Ahh.. that little bastard.." Turns out the guys 17 year old son had been driving the car the previous week.

[Chaparral2f]

Luckily, my caar is so old that if it were recording data I would hear the stone tablets being chiseled.

[randy 77zt]

i was a tech at a ford dealer till i quit a couple of months ago.never heard off any extra black boxes on fords.just the ecm for the efi .but it records trouble codes and engine overspeed comes up sometimes.thing to really watch out for -gps tracking devices in rental cars.they like to charge you if you go off road.

[Mikelly]

Last weekend at the road course a Cadilac was on course and spun... Guess who CALLED? "ONSTAR online, is everything OK? We noticed that you had a spin."

 

Now THAT is scary... Suppose there might be some grief from GM on the next warranty work done?

 

Mike

[BrandonsZ]

when they ban pre-emmission vehicles we can all enjoy the convienance of an automatic ticket for speeding, "no fault" insurance won't be necessary, and they can automatically notify your parole officer, stop your car and lock you in if you pull a U-turn in a "no u-turn zone". Looking forward to it.

[2126]

I'm a believer in.....we came make a difference!!! The best way to stop this kind of BS is, just don't buy their crap. Or you can be just like the rest of the sheople in this country, get in line, and chew on whatever is given to you. There is just less and less freedom now days! Why, because we allow it to be that way. Take a stand and stick up for your beliefs.....the alternative is to follow the heard! Baaah, baaah, baaah...........

[johnc]

Last weekend at the road course a Cadilac was on course and spun... Guess who CALLED? "ONSTAR online, is everything OK? We noticed that you had a spin."

 

If there was a way to take the ECU and the whole ONSTAR communication system out of the car and put it in a washing machine on the spin cycle...

[wigenOut-S30]

I'm a believer in.....we came make a difference!!! The best way to stop this kind of BS is, just don't buy their crap. Or you can be just like the rest of the sheople in this country, get in line, and chew on whatever is given to you. There is just less and less freedom now days! Why, because we allow it to be that way. Take a stand and stick up for your beliefs.....the alternative is to follow the heard! Baaah, baaah, baaah...........

LOL yeah if only they would tell the people buying cars that the car is equiped with a snitch device like this.. Man this just seems like intrusion to me. whats next.. home envasion?? I guess I will just keep buying older cars.. Yikes this scares me..

[Mikelly]

Well my recommendation is to buy a truck and a cheap trailer...

 

You want to enjoy your Zcar? You'll be trackin' it along with the rest of us before all is said and done!

 

Mike

[Michael]

It’s the old “why worry about it, if you’ve got nothing to hide†argument.

 

Reasons to worry:

 

* Guilty or innocent, I resent my even being asked the question.

 

* Behaviors that theoretically are “against the law†are often nevertheless justifiable,

depending on circumstances. The “black box†data is very black and white; no gray area, no room for mitigating circumstances

 

* I resent having a device that I paid for, a device that I bought voluntarily (my car), being used against me

 

* I reserve the right to be “guilty†of victimless “crimesâ€, without any punishment whatsoever.

[Pop N Wood]

The Onstar has to have some type of antenna. If you can't pull a separate fuse, then is it possible to short out the antenna? Maybe hook a plug wire to the antenna output port?

 

Guess if the black box is part of the ECU the only way to disable would be by reprogramming it.

 

Hmmm. Sounds like a new ebay buisness opportunity. Get a copy of LS1 edit and delete the onstar-black box code. Probably get $200 a pop.

[Guest PROJECTRB240SX]

You Can Buy Gm Vehicles With Onstar Delete.....