The Hidden Cost of a V-8 Conversion.....

[COZY Z COLE]

I was reading an article titled "Nasty New-Home Surprise". In it was listed some of the things that the real-estate agent and your banker don't tell you about when buying a house, the hidden costs!! Let me list a few when you move from an apartment to your new house.

1) If I had a hammer.....Pliers,screwdrivers,saws,washers,nuts,drills,wrenches,

duct tape, and a Swiss Army knife....$3,000

2) You got guests...... For each bedroom in your new house you need beds, sheets, towels, end tables,l amps, and some meals..... $1,300

3) The insta-repair....Doors don't shut or lock, hot water heater quits and the toliet gets plugged,ect...... $$$$$$

4) The grass is greener......You've got to mow.edge.weed eat. plant shrubs and flowers, fertilize, ect...... $2,000

5) Commute and "Keeping up with the JONES'S"...... New or newer car $$$$$

6) Windows..... You might have 2 now but how about 20 or more and what goes with them...... $$$$$$

7) New house, same old stuff??......... Got to have new furniture, ect.....$$$$$

 

This led me to think about respones to the question on this site "How much does it cost to do a _____ conversion?". I usually fall off my chair with the "I did it for $2,000" or some such figure. Let's look at the hidden costs of these conversions. I will address just my experiences on doing one........

1) Tools........ If there is a special size or angle or metric size, a Datsun requires it....$$$

2) Spray can paint, removers and cleaners, polishers, sandpapers, clothes, brushes, and all others that fit in this section... $500

3) Storage space... New shed, garage, rental locker, or last years garden plot.... $$$$$

4) New or used parts that are wrong or that your going in a new direction....$$$$

5) Books and diagrams.... FSM, How to restore your Datsun Z car, Haynes, ect., and more copied paper then are pages in the phone book.....$$$

6) A couple of non-running cars that you are going to work on next....$$$

7) Numerous parts that you are saving because you might need one someday....... Some you haven't a clue what they are or what it came off ....$$

8) Cost of having this car that you say, any trip over 20 miles, what will break next???....... No dollar figure known!!!!!

9) First name bases with the UPS, FED-X, and local mail carrier.....

10) Don't need to call for an appointment at the local dyno, tire, or tow shop..... These numbers are on your speed dial....

11) Computer upgrades.... Video card, processer speed, monitor, sound card, speaker system, memory size, hard drive, and switching to DSL are required for the car web sites you visit.......$$$$$

12) Therapy, anger management, and marriage counseling may be required....$$$$$

13) Credit card abuse...... Overlimits, credit rating score, increase in maximum limits, and plastic is easy to use when doing on-line ordering.......$$$$$

 

Now about that $ 2,000 figure to do a conversion......

 

Well.... that's enough but then that's just my opinion....

 

LARRY

[Tim240z]

Good post Larry!!

One comment though.

Tools, storage buildings etc are capital investments that can be ammortorized over a lifetime (providing good quality stuff is purchased), and should not be charges wholly to the project at hand.

I look at projects as an excuse to buy tools

 

This does give the newbies an idea of what they are getting into though!!

[Phantom]

Whether you do it yourself or have someone else do it the cost is nearly the same - unless your own personal time is worthless. I always figure it will take me about 2 1/2 times as long to do something as it will a professional. They have the proper tools, the properly set up shop and a LOT more experience than I have. They also can generally devote a lot more time each week to it so it will get done sooner and I'll be doing what I truly enjoy which is driving the car - not wrenching it. Since my earning ability is north of $40/hour and a professional isn't going to cost me $100/hour - I generally opt to have the difficult things done by a competent - please note I said competent - pro. The simpler stuff I learned to do when I had no disposable income I still do myself.

If everyone would add up the total number of hours they devoted to a project and figure out what they would have earned at overtime rates if they had been working instead the true cost of these projects would increase exponentially.

Oh yeah - and add to that list the things you have to buy your significant other to keep them supporting your hobby instead of fighting it - nearly priceless.!

[wigenOut-S30]

Whether you do it yourself or have someone else do it the cost is nearly the same - unless your own personal time is worthless. I always figure it will take me about 2 1/2 times as long to do something as it will a professional. They have the proper tools' date=' the properly set up shop and a LOT more experience than I have. They also can generally devote a lot more time each week to it so it will get done sooner and I'll be doing what I truly enjoy which is driving the car - not wrenching it. Since my earning ability is north of $40/hour and a professional isn't going to cost me $100/hour - I generally opt to have the difficult things done by a competent - please note I said competent - pro. The simpler stuff I learned to do when I had no disposable income I still do myself.

If everyone would add up the total number of hours they devoted to a project and figure out what they would have earned at overtime rates if they had been working instead the true cost of these projects would increase exponentially.

Oh yeah - and add to that list the things you have to buy your significant other to keep them supporting your hobby instead of fighting it - nearly priceless.![/quote']

 

Thats great and all. But alot of people like wrenching on there own cars. Of course right now my time is my money. heh. poor as I am.. But I know after I get done doing something and run a faster time.. I do get a nice sence of gratitude of doing the mod or wrenching myself. Either way. Conversions are not cheap but the end product usually a smile is on the face of the person driving..

[BrandonsZ]

Here's the options: (don't forget about the parts cost for the actual exhaust)

 

A. I buy the ultimate welder and all the junk necessary to run it including higher electrical service on the house and rewiring the garage ~$3-5k

B. I buy a knock off welder and a minimum subset fo the junk needed to run it and maybe get away with 110V power in the garage or maybe a dryer hookup $1-2k

C. I go to sears and buy a bargain basement welder and just barely enough junk to keep from huritng myself or causing a fire $500

D. I go to Midas, they install my exhaust $250-$500

E. I use clamps on everything and spend the next 4 weekends fixing leaks, probably don't fix them all, the fumes come in through the bad seals and rust holes int he floor and I slowly go insane with CO poisening. $100

 

and that's just the exhaust! dang.

[Guest tony78_280z]

I don't know about all this... You can't add the cost of tools unless this is the only project you plan to use that tool on.

 

My cousin and I purchased a little flux mig welder. We each spent 80.00 including face mask and an extra spool of wire. With it I've put up my tranny cross member, fixed some exhaust leaks (from when I was using a crap arc welder) Made a TV cable bracket. (I'm gonna try that one again as mine looks like crap. It works well though.) I've got lots of additional plans for it, but my cousin has used it on his motorcycle, lawnmowers, and his paps (my uncle) has used it on tractors and all kinds of stuff. So is this a Z cost? not entirely. I'm just waiting to go crazy and fabricate some kind of Monster Garage style trebuchette and mount it to the back of his scout.

 

It is a "Hidden Cost" though. I'd say the guy who says he pulled off a swap for under $2,000 already had a garage full of tools.

[Cody 82 ZXT]

I look at projects as an excuse to buy tools

 

Thats almost the best part of a project. Every time I start a new non run of the mill project my wife ask how much is this going to cost us? Ok, now how much are the tools going to cost us?

 

I love tools. Wish I had more.

[Chaparral2f]

I already have a garage full of tools and access to friends that have what I don't. Lasat year my project passed $4000 at a dead run and there is no end in sight.

[Guest Aaron]

I have a T-shirt that says "the man who dies with the most tools wins".

[dot]

One comment though.

I look at projects as an excuse to buy tools

 

Well said my good man.

 

When you start working on cars you will learn early the value of good tools. The money that can be saved from working on your own car and those of family and friends will be returned many times over your initial investment.

 

But Larry is right, just getting the motor in is the least expensive part of the process. It is the hidden costs can kill your project.

[cyrus]

Cherry picker $

Engine load leveler $

sawzall $

chop saw $

completing your metric sockects sets $

[Turbo Meister]

Oh yeah - and add to that list the things you have to buy your significant other to keep them supporting your hobby instead of fighting it - nearly priceless.!

 

I'm constantly encouraging my wife to buy things for herself or the house because it will allow me to expend an equal amount on the Z. Unfortunately, my wife's spending has yet to catch up with my Z expenditures.

Hanns

[datsunlover]

I'm just trying to get a fairly STOCK engine back in my Z and costs are getitng up there! I do agree with buying tools though.. it can't be added totaly to the 'cost of a project' cause you'll always use the tools again.. Today I spent $90 on some wrenches.. The cool ratcheting ones. Good thing to, cause I needed them for a whole whack of stuf I was doing today! Ok, well.. some stuf I could have used a regular ratchet and socket, but I wanted to play with the new tools..

[80LS1T]

I get to "double dip" when it comes to tools since my job is an auto tech. So I buy tools for work and get to take them home! So when I buy tools "their for work not home" atleast thats what I'll tell my future wife! LOL

 

Oh and Datsunlover, those wrenchs should be standard in every mechanics box! You will never want to use another regular wrench again. Trust me on this one!

 

Guy

[Brad-ManQ45]

I have workedc on my cars in the past, but with my acquisition of my '75 V* project car, I started accumulating air tools, a compressor, welder, took welding classes, bought tubing and made a rotisserie, bought tool carts, made shelving in garage and uin basement, run air piping from compressor in basement to woodworking workshop in same and garage upstairs, run wiring for welder and more electrical outlets in garage.

 

This is before I've done much more than remove Engine, tranny, hood, valence windshield, hatch glass and gas tank.

 

I am continually trying to find better ways of organizing the samll garage space to provide the maximum elbow room and have tools close at hand - did I mention multiple carts?

 

I bought a couple of those wheeled 3 tray carts at HF for $30 apiece, 4 pieces of steel angle w/holes and added pegboard across the back of both of them to hang tools on, and have space to have air tools on without having to walk across the garage for a tool.

 

The money I have soent on tools for this project is nothing comparted to what I have to spend on her every time the better half starts in on the mess I make. Most of this mess was in cutting and drilling metal and welding the rotisserie, but every time she she's me come in after taking off parts of the car all sweaty and dirty I go through a mini version of the taming of the shrew - as opposed to the full blown version that I still don'twant to repeat.

 

(My wife is anal compulsive about a clean house - I try my best, use mats to wipe off feet, wear latex/nitryl gloves, blow dirt off clothes - but of course nothing is ever good enough).

 

The nice part of it is that I have impressed the neighbors with the other projects I have done efficiently because I have these tools and know how to use them. I rarely have to buy drinks because I'm able to fix stuff for them with just a little time and energy and they never complain about the noise from the tools because thay have all benefited from my having them.

[COZY Z COLE]

Thanks for the replies guys..... I didn't think I was the only one to be amazed as the " hidden costs " grew..

 

There are 2 more items I want to add to the list and remember this is my experience only...

 

1.) Tech Support..... The best I had was HOLLEY and the worst was DSL support and I will expound on the computer end. I had MSN dial-up and that was to slow loading so I went to MSN BROADBAND. At the same time I wanted to go wireless with the other computer I had in another room. In a 3 month period between a bad DSL modem and router problems I talked to every support center in the USA. After awhile we would talk about the weather where they were at and their hobbies..... Have you ever been on the phone long enough to have your ear start hurting??? One series of calls lasted 6 hours and I was switched from the deep South to the state of WASHINGTON and each time it was a level up the tech. support ladder. Then MSN sold their DSL customers in my area to SBC. Now you'd think this would be an easy switch.... WRONG.... I had to get all new DSL modems, routers, and wireless equip. Of course now days these companies don't want your old equip. back and they send you the complete package with the new stuff whether you need new cables,filters, and adapters or not. I have a min-mart of good computer parts that are almost matching my DATSUN AND CHEVY inventory.....New also with SBC is that I got to learn a new language... PIG-ENGLISH, INDIA style....

 

2.) GYPSIES,LAIRS.TRAMPS and THIEVES......This cast of characters includes Paint and Body shops, Engine builders, mechanics, Muffler shops, A friend of a friend who is a "guru" on something dealing with your car, Previous Owner of the car you bought to do the conversion on, Low milage engine owners, and anybody with a carb that "it just needs a rebuild kit". This does not mean that everybody in one of these categories is that way but I'm sure you can put a name to some of them.....

 

My final thought on this is I've learned that any completion date given to you from people in the last item, you need to add 4 or 5 weeks to and sometimes months....Have you ever had something completed before the promise date??? And am I the only one that hears something like this from these "stooges"??? ... "In the 30 years of working on high proformance cars, your car is the first one we've worked that's ever had this problem."

I think I've ranted enough on "Hidden Costs" .....

 

LARRY

[ZHeadV8]

Every time I buy an expensive part the hidden cost is the "bribe present" to stop my wife going up the wall

[dsommer]

Bernina sewing machine, Berina surger, Koala sewing table.... 3K+

 

BILL, ahem diamonds are a girls best friend. No comment

 

Dyson vacume cleaner. $500

 

Front loader washer and dryer. 2K or so

 

Remod garage. Ballpark $5K

 

So what are the "hidden" costs? Ah for the love of a Zzzzzzz

[sjhafa]

Ahh tools, thats what slush funds are for. Yes I know my UPS driver very well, he even has the code to get into my barn to drop off the tools on the days my wife works. There are never " new " tools out there. Because by the time she gets home the packages are burnt and the tools are stuffed away getting the slightest bit dirty. How many times have I said "honey that was my dads and he never really used it, I have had it for years" and it still works! I have taught my understudies at work on the art of "Tool Deception and slush funds" Good lord I need to write a book...........And if she ever finds out about what I just said I am sooooooo screwed!!

[Phantom]

Hans - my wife has had no trouble keeping up.

 

David - yeah - I know that in spades

 

So far I've bought her a Z32 convertible and then put a new top and new interior in it - zcar.com zcar of the month for march 2005 - plus two diamond rings, a pair of diamond errings, and a diamond tennis bracelet. I think the jewelry has a total weight of around 19 carats of diamonds. The Z32 was cheap in comparison as it was half the cost of one ring.