wilwood big brakes how to make your own kit front and back for $1550

[v80z]

I have to weigh in with Randy 77zt. In club racing I only ran toyota 4x4 caliper up front on stock rotors and drums on the rear. I ran whatever heavy duty brake fluid I could buy. I also ran friction material from Carbotech the XP9 as they have the pads for the toyota 4x4 caliper. And I carried spares. Bleeding the fluid at the end of a really hot session is a good idea and definately at the end of each day. Those pads were great. After every session there would be a good thick film of brake dust everywhere on the front wheels. Just my theory but a pad that will wear off is doing its job. There was no need for super brakes and in my limited experience club racing. It was what I would call sprint racing. There are only 2 maybe 3 place on a track that require threshold braking. Only one of the corners would be a braking event from top speed. Each lap was in the 1.25 -6-7 at summit to 2.18 - 2.27 range at vir. Time to cool. You are running 30 minute sessions one to two in the morning and one in the afternoon. Total 3 race sessions a day. The Z I had would top at 140 mph down the main straight. I never noticed any brake issues. My failures were alway engine internals. Z engines dont last too many 8000rpm sessions. But they are not designed too. We just run them that way to win then we go home and rebuild for the next dance.

 

 

If anyone has any stories about z cars and brake failures on a closed circuit I would like to hear all the particulars.

 

Everything has to be put in perspective based on your application. If you have to haul a 3400lbs tube chassis Monte carlo from 175mph to go around turn one you must buy a certain brake. If you need to slow a 2200 lb z car doing 140mph you can use a different brake. If you have a relatively unlimited budget, something I have never enjoyed, Buy all the brakes you want. The proof is in the lap time...............................................................

[Here comes trouble]

!. Got out my catalogs and logged on to Wilwood's website and seached for the parts numbers given at the beginning of this thread. It aint easy to find the parts even on the Wilwood website and suspect sourcing the parts even worse 2. I read Jon M's F and A on brakes (found at the bottom of this thread) and paid close attention to Mike K's comments on brakes during this thread (these 2 members have forgot more than most folks will ever learn about the Z) Availibility, "Serviceabilty" and Longevity are an important factor when considering brake options which would place the Wilwood option at the bottom of the list for most stree/race options. The Cobra brake option would be at the top 3. V80Z sez tweaking the stock brakes is adequete for most racing which is a reasonable assunption given his experience 4. Racing with 15 inch wheels maybe the advantage of the "all" Wilwood set up and street use would be compromised by the lack of dust shields and the potential of rebuilds . 5. Prior to reading this thread, I knew lttle about Wilwood but now know "enuff" to avoid this modification for my application and applaud "Cobra" for bringing this brake option to everyone's attention and for those who will benefit from this all Wilwood application which requires little modifications

[260DET]

Far as I'm concerned for circuit work better brakes than the Toyota fronts/drums rear are a must in almost any competition. Subject to the law of diminishing returns, high end brakes will be one of the more productive investments in your car you will ever make.

 

Outbraking someone into a corner is a very practical and useful way to get past them, besides its a buzz As has been pointed out to me by an instructor, braking is an area where the amateur can loose a lot of time, most of us brake way too early. Better brakes encourage you to brake later, not only because the car stops quicker but because the modulation is better, which helps in trail braking too.

 

Money wise, with bigger brakes you can use less expensive fluid and pads because there is not as much heat stress involved. Spend more, save more.

 

Anyway, enough of that. So is it the general view that the good four spot Wilwoods are comparable with similar spec Brembo and AP calipers? Lets be objective now

[Mikelly]

I'll agree that in ITS or club events were the power of the vehicles is limited, then sure, you can get by with the 4X4 caliper. But if you are driving a modified car around a course for 20+ minutes at a time, You are far better suited with a larger than stock diameter, and vented rotor to shed the heat, and increase the lever effect on braking. It will make the whole chassis much happier and save you a trip into the tires or armco.

 

Mike

[JMortensen]

Mike is right IME. I had 4x4 calipers and early ZX rear disks. Last time out (granted it was 114º) my brakes lasted 5 laps. To be fair I wasn't conserving them. But I did boil the ATE Super Blue fluid in the front within 5 laps. I had figured on bleeding between sessions. But they wouldn't even make it to the end of a 20 min session.

 

The vented 4x4 setup has an enormous advantage over the non vented rotor. A lot of the VARA guys running CP3 and CP3M are running the vented 4x4 brakes with 300 hp L6s and staying on the track.

 

I think tires has something to do with it too. With my slicks I think I can put quite a bit more heat into the brakes than somebody on street tires or even a narrower DOT.

 

Still everyone was having problems with brakes that day as I recall, and my friend put a hole in a piston, I mean it was the worst day at the track I've ever had. Never again will I go out in heat like that.

[tube80z]

But if you are driving a modified car around a course for 20+ minutes at a time, You are far better suited with a larger than stock diameter, and vented rotor to shed the heat, and increase the lever effect on braking.

 

An interesting item that I learned recently in a class was that ducting air to the disk is not really a good way to cool brakes (pissing in the wind was the comment I recall). We were shown what is happenning at upper levels of the sport and they duct air in through the bridge in the calipers to the back side of the pistons.

 

We saw some slides of brake heat of the various components as they were used. And the biggest reduction in temperature to the pistons/caliper/fluid was when air cooling as done this way. Air to the rotor did help but not a lot.

 

Mind you, I haven't tried any of this but found it interesting and thought I'd pass it on.

 

Cary

[tube80z]

As has been pointed out to me by an instructor, braking is an area where the amateur can loose a lot of time, most of us brake way too early. Better brakes encourage you to brake later, not only because the car stops quicker but because the modulation is better, which helps in trail braking too.

 

One area I'm going to work on this year is getting up to pressure much more quickly. That was one area pointed out in the motec seminar where amatuers and pros often diverge. In the first bit of brake application it is almost impossible to raise the pressure fast enough, although you can have too much and lock wheels. The trick is to hit hard and fast in a controlled manner.

 

Cary

[Mikelly]

Just as a comparison only, On my 99C5 Vette we've changed out the fluid and pads, along with upgrades to the hoses and upgraded the ducting from the factory ducts. I was running hoosiers in 305-30-18s (back) and 275-40-17s (front) and we noticed that with these upgrades (using GS610 or Motul SRF fluids) and the ducting is tied into the caliper... It actually sits on the back side of the caliper with safety wire. I'm running bone stock ALLSafe OEM replacement 13inch rotors up front and OEM 12 inch rotors out back with Hawk HT10 race compound pads. I bleed all four calipers before I get to the track and I don't touch them afterwards. At Summit point I was running 1 minute 26 second laps on my best runs on the main circuit. At VIR I was running about a 2minute 16second lap on my best laps and the sessions were about 25minutes in length. I never had brake fade and the brakes were superb. This is in a 3200+ # platform. Imagine what that system combination would do in a Zcar chassis. Without the combination of upgrades I made, but running on slicks, a number of others from the Corvette community have had brake fade within 10 minutes on the track. The combo of parts is a known and proven combo used by others, and I just copied their setups and advice on what worked.

 

The biggest problem these "vette" guys are experiencing with their stock OEM style 13inch radial vented rotors is cracking due to insufficient cool down. Most of us run our sessions and then pull in to the pits and cut the car off... the heat from the combo of rotor, caliper, tire and rim, along with the heat coming out from under the engine bay don't help with an already saturated braking surface and the rotors have cracked on some of these C5 cars. Fortunately I've not experienced it yet. However, these OEM rotors only cost $22 each, so most of the guys just do 2-3 weekends and toss them.

 

Mike

[260DET]

One area I'm going to work on this year is getting up to pressure much more quickly. That was one area pointed out in the motec seminar where amatuers and pros often diverge. In the first bit of brake application it is almost impossible to raise the pressure fast enough' date=' although you can have too much and lock wheels. The trick is to hit hard and fast in a controlled manner.

 

Cary[/quote']

 

Exactly what we were told too. Hit the brakes hard then start to back off, more and more as you come into the corner, until the pads are just dragging on the rotors somewhere around the apex.

 

Exact opposite to the 'squeeze them on' technique for ordinary road driving.

[Guest iskone]

Cobraz240z, What offsets are you using with your brakes? How did your setup effect offset?

 

 

Isk