KiD-ViD Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 I have a question for you guys that I have been debating for a while. Which chassis do you think has more potential? The 240z or the Mazda Miata (we will say a 90-93 miata cause they are in about the same price range as a 240z)? I know you might be a bit biased though heh. For equal amounts of money, lets say $10k not including the car, which do you think would be faster around the track? Also, which do you guys think could be made lighter? They both start out at about the same weight (a '90 miata weighs in at 2105 dry for the base model.) Without changing the engine or spending a heap could the 240z be made lighter than the Miata with an equal amount of work done to it? I really cant decide which is better because while the miata is much newer and is renowned for its suspension but the 240z has also been known to hold its own, still winning races over 30 years later. I know quite a bit about both cars and have driven both hard and I have a hunch which might do better but its still up in the air for me. Anyway, what do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Uh, I think it just boils down to what you want to do. Either car will handle well, but I think a well sorted Miata would be a HOOT. I also think that if you really wanted to do it up right, a Zcar with all the bells and whistles (Suspension/ brakes/ Chassis) would make one heck of a decent car. Also depends on wanting a vert or coupe! To many cars, to little time! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karay240 Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 I'm probably going to get flamed like nobody's business here, but here it goes. . . If you're wanting to spend the least amount of money and aren't infatuated w/ HP numbers, I'd say go w/ the miata. The miata might weigh around the same as the Z, but you must think about why a smaller car like the miata weighs so much. It's from the niceties like sound deadening material, A/C, power steering etc etc. If you take off all the stuff the miata that the Z has, then we don't have the same weight. If you want the Z to have a chassis as stiff as the miata's, then you're talking about a roll cage than will make the car even heavier. On top of that, once you get your Z, whether big or small, it will be a restoration project. Bottom line, the Z WILL require time, work, and $$$ just to get the performance up to where the miata is out of the box. In conclusion, I'd just like to add that I love the Z, and I would go w/ a Z. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiD-ViD Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Yeah that is pretty much what I was thinking. I just love the styling and history of the Z so much. I am not a big fan of the miatas looks but I know it can handle. Plus power is much easier to get in a Z because of all the swap options. Although I am much more concerned with weight than power, more power is always nice to help you get around a track. So you think a stripped out '90 Miata with a 1.8 from a later Miata, a turbo, and a nice suspension setup would beat a stripped out 240z with an sr20 and all the suspension goodies? Seems like a pretty close race to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I have competed agaist Miatas in a stripped 240Z competition only track-autocross car many times. With equal setups, and drivers with equal talent, hear is what I have determined. Autocross: Miatas rule, especially if it is a very tight course. They can downshift to 1st on tight Auto-X course and carry a lot more speed in the turns. In a 240Z, you really have to stay in second. So not only do you not have the acceration out of the turn because you are in 2nd, but the Miata suspension is just better in tight turns. Road course: Again, on a track with tight turns, and not many straights, it is hard to beat a Miata given equal drivers. Now on a track with long straights, the Z will easily out excelerate a Miata, and if the turns aren't really tight, the 240Z can cary as much speed as the Miata. At Watkins Glenn this year I was very happy to catch a race prepped Miata in my time trial. I ruled the straights, and there was only one turn the Miata was faster in (toe of the boot). Street: Z Car! Not only do you have better acceleration, but a superior looking ride. And your not just another Miata. I race with a Corvette club that allows all cars (and trucks), and it is probably 70% are Miatas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HBZ81 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 i gotta go with the miata, but really it also boils down to what you want to do, how much you want to spend, and most importantly: How you want to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 If your Miata/MX5 is not fast enough you could always convert it into a Bullet http://www.fastlane.com.au/Custom_Shed/AEC_Bullet.htm Despite what they say there it is basically a Miata/MX5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I spent a weekend playing with a turbo charged miata at VIR. I'm driving my lt-1 240 and we are having a ball. I can just and I repeat just take him on the straights and he can just take me thru a few turns. What a ball. This was with a turbo on an otherwise stock engine. What a neat car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 ...not to mention all the aftermarket race items for the Miata (suspension, brakes, etc) are less expensive (due to mass production) and more easily attainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 AND the fact that SCCA and NASA both are huge supporters of the Miata in racing series. If you're building something for street use, HPDE and have no interest in a convertible, the Zcar is great. However, Im stuck with a project car that I won't be able to race in a series because of the V8 and all the mods. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed260Z Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I can't say I'm a big fan of the Miata, but it's handles like a Go-Cart. If your building a track car I'd go with the Miata. But if you want an all around, well round car, the Z is my choice. The Z was modeled after 2 of the best Sports cars of the 60's, a Jag & Porche. For it's time the Z was a great handleing car. The Miata's technology is 20 yrs newer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Flying Miata has a writeup of a battle between a 320hp Datsun 240Z and a 350hp Mazda Miata (2003 OTC). Guess which car won? http://www.flyinmiata.com/projects/OTC/default.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I'm a little surprised everyone thinks the miatas handle so well. I've never driven one, but I've run with a bunch of them at track events, and none of them impressed me thru the turns. They definitely have some cool factor though. jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I'm a little surprised everyone thinks the miatas handle so well. I've never driven one, but I've run with a bunch of them at track events, and none of them impressed me thru the turns. They definitely have some cool factor though. You must be encountering some bad drivers. Go to an autox and watch BS stomp most of the Street Prepared cars in the field. Miatas are an excellent handling car that usually posts .92 or .93 on the skidpad in bone stock form, and as stated the aftermarket is huge and that number can be improved considerably. Your bad handling Miatas remind me of that "slow" 996 Turbo I LAPPED in a 20 min session at an open track day. In my case the car wasn't slow, it was the driver. I suspect the same in yours. EDIT--Forgot to mention bone stock Z skidpad figures (granted with the old tire technology) was .73 IIRC. I looked this up a while back and if you want to compare with new cars that's about what the Kia Sorrento and the Jeep Liberty. Granted g forces aren't that good a comparison with regards to how a vehicle can transition weight and all that, but it's still an eye opener! Where are they both going to end up on the racetrack? That depends how much money you have to spend and how good a driver you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Flying Miata has a writeup of a battle between a 320hp Datsun 240Z and a 350hp Mazda Miata (2003 OTC). Guess which car won? http://www.flyinmiata.com/projects/OTC/default.asp LMAO...."That cursed Datsun....." = ) good read. PS... "That car only LOOKS old... !" lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I'm a little surprised everyone thinks the miatas handle so well. I've never driven one' date=' but I've run with a bunch of them at track events, and none of them impressed me thru the turns. They definitely have some cool factor though. jt[/quote'] John, The miata I was with at VIR was very well driven and it did not have stock suspension and was on track rubber. Look like a very fun car. Most I see at the track are moving cones. Just need some orange paint. Your car has the power to close on anything at just about any place on the track. The guy in the miata has his foot to the floor in the turns and you are waiting for him to get out of the way so you can GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Haaa... our Z car club president traded his 240Z for a supercharged Hoosier slicks miata.... as I recall I bested his times throughout the last event...although we were close...but the driver is still learning his car... Oddly enough...our track events coordinator owns a 1971 240Z and seems to want to replace it with a BMW E30.... If I were going to compare 2 close performers...I would say that the BMW E-30s are the closest match for a 240Z... Mine is a 1972 240Z with the original L24..rebuilt in 1986...sat in a barn for almost 2 decades... I woke it up with some headwork and a cam and put MSA blue springs on it with blue tokico shocks...replaced all bushings and slotted the strut towers and shaved the upper mounts for added negative camber.. bigger front sway and added a rear sway bar... I run on 225/50/15 Victoracers, or 205/50/15 Azenis.... AND I use stock brakes with track pads.... I would say that a well prepared Z car will beat most well prepared Miatas...at least the Miatas don't do very well at our events... I have video of my 240Z chasing down another track prepped Miata with slicks that stick WAYYYY outside of the wheel wells... I have driven another supercharged Miata on the street and it was FAST!!!... but I wondered at it's capability on the track... The Z car puts down more power with similar mods... with an LSD and some suspension tuning you can get an amazing amount of speed from a Z car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Mark, was that a white miata with flares? After posting that I remembered Doug Gubbins- white turbo miata with big flared fenders, about 9" goodyears, and very well driven. I agree his car is real fast. His is about the only one I've seen that wasn't in the "moving cone" group. I'm looking forward to seeing how Marty- the guy bjhines is talking about- does with his at VIR in Feb. jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 John, This car did not have flairs. There must be two fast miatas on the east coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 weird I came across this thread.. I am buying a second car for a FUN daily driver.. and I am buying a Miata! ahaha sweet.. Ill be owning both soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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