Lewis Maudlin Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 OK, I have my car back up and running. SR20DET, GT2871R, 740's, Z32MAF, APEXi power fc, ported polished intake, FMIC, tubular header and downpipe, 3" mandrel bent exhaust. Now I need to weigh and dyno tune. I will let you know what I find out. I expect 350 whp and 2400 lbs. The weight may be higher because my car is a hog. I have front and rear air dams, leather seats, air conditioning hasn't been removed. Unfortunately, I am not done in time for SEZ. I hope that someone with an SR20DET represents at SEZ. I do plan on making Z day however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 what year is ur car again? Look forward to seeing you at Z Days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 Like I said, my car is a hog. It is a 1978. It should be a little on the heavy side with the R200. I also have the Toyota 4 piston brakes. Someday, I need to trim some fat. I even have the full size FOLDING spare tire. I thought the tire had rotted the first time I saw a folding spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 2400 lbs would be amazing for a full trim 78. My guess is you are gonna be in the 2800lb range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 Don't forget, I have an aluminum block 4 cylinder as opposed to an iron block 6 or 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 OK, how about a revised estimate of 2600 lbs. I can always hope for 2400 lbs. The stock 280Z weighs in at a swinesque 2875. The following are guesses -75 lbs Removed the front and rear bumpers but added air dams -100 lbs Removed L28e and put in SR20DET +-0 Replaced exhaust with 3" mandrel bent and Megan1 muffler -100 lbs Sheer hope??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Removing the bumpers off a 280Z probably saved you more weight then the SR swap. Did your car really weigh 2,875 or is that the number off the data plate on the door jamb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 2875 lbs is what all the websites say. I don't know if they really weigh that much. I think you are wrong about weight savings of the SR engine. I think the SR will weigh at least 100 lbs less than the L28. These V-8 and V-6 guys are always saying that it doesn't weigh less. They claim that a complete SR weighs 490 lbs complete, then they add the intercooler and piping. They say a complete L28 weighs 523 lbs. What they forget is that an SR20DET has an intercooler and piping if it is complete. I don't know why people believe that a smaller, aluminum block engine weighs only 6% less than a 50% larger iron block??? Do the turbo, intercooler and piping add as much weight as 2 cylinders and the iron block??? I don't propose to know the answer, but I have owned and drive all three and can tell you that the SR20DET feels much more than 100 lbs lighter that the L28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 You're picking a fight with the wrong guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfreer85 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 You're picking a fight with the wrong guy... Big time ditto, I don't know if you know it Lewis but JohnC is the guy who built Amir's SR20DET Z. Maybe you should cruise around his (johnc's) website and read a lot of his posts, the guys knows his facts and has A LOT of experience with Z's and Racing. Not everyone on this board hates you, don't take it that way, you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder because some guys here argued with you. Hope you get the desired results that you want, your swap was clean, enjoy it no matter what anyone else says. Hey you've got a running car thats more than what some of us can say . Tyson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 Yes, I know who John Coffey is. Yes, he built Amir's Z. I built Lewis's SR20DET Z. I wasn't trying to pick a fight. Yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder because some of the other guys made wild statements in a thread I started. Later, John C closed the thread because people wouldn't "stick to facts" (his words). I was just wanting to know the factual basis for his statement. If that is unreasonable, then I am guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 All I can add is , put that puppy on a scale and we'll finally know the answer to that long running question. Then the questions will start like " This guy installed a roll cage" and "this guy installed a R230" When will it end. There are SO MANY variables it's almost impossible to ESTIMATE how much our cars will weigh. It weighs what it weighs. Well, I'm off my soap box now, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosebleedZ Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Lewis, I'm new here, but I was wondering if you have thought about Lexan rear windows/ going to a manual rack/ do some holesaw work? Some of these are great weight reduction tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted March 26, 2006 Author Share Posted March 26, 2006 I am not that interested in weight savings. My car is a daily driver. There are a lot of things that can be done to save weight. I was just guessing what my car could weigh. I hope for 2600 lbs or less. I even said that the numbers were sheer hope. John may be right. It seems counter-intuitive to me, but it is possible. I was just wanting to know whether he based his comments on facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder because some of the other guys made wild statements in a thread I started. Later, John C closed the thread because people wouldn't "stick to facts" (his words). I was just wanting to know the factual basis for his statement. If that is unreasonable, then I am guilty. Lewis, I believe there were other people in that thread (all, see the thread here) that were the real culprits of not "sticking to the facts". Just read SuperZ's load of BS at the end - John got fed up with all of the nonsense in that thread (I did as well), and decided that SuperZ's BS post with tons of incredible untruths was the last straw. SuperZ wasn't the only one not "sticking to the facts" though. Please don't feel like the chip on the shoulder is needed. Did you happen to weigh the car before the swap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Uummm, I'm not picking a fight with anyone. Did you folks miss the smiley at the end of my sentence above? It was meant as a joke, humor, a quick reparte', just a funny comment... There a lot of chips on people's shoulder's here. Let's brush them off. From what I've seen on scales a 280Z is typically in the high 2,600s with normal stuff on board. I've seen some heavier and some lighter but 2,675 would be a typical number. SCCA requires an ITS 280Z to weight 2,760 (this is from memory) with drive aboard and SCCA figures the typical driver is 180 lbs. so they calculated that a 280Z in IT trim should weigh 2,580 lbs (stripped interior, 14" rims, roll cage, fuel cell). Pulling the bumpers AND the bumper supports saves about 100 lbs. A SR20DET swap can save an additional 100lbs (or more) depending on what's involved in the swap beyond the basic engine and intercooler plumbing. Unfortunately, a lot of the extras that are "while I'm at it" items add weight and tend to negate the SR weight savings. The closest comparison that I know of between a NA L6 and a SR20DET swap is the Rusty Old Datsun and Amir's SR260Z. Even that isn't perfect. I'll lay out the comparison information here and you guys make up your own minds: Amir's SR260Z 1974 260Z| Black top SR20DET Nissan 5 speed T4 turbo Spearco intercooler Thin wall (.049") mild steel intercooler plumbing Greddy intake Blitz oil cooler Mild steel 3" downpipe, exhaust, Apexi muffler CCw 17 x 9 and 17 x 10 wheels Kumho V700 tires Fiberglass hood Fiberglass bumpers Aluminum bumper brackets Steel hatch Glass rear window and 1/4 windows Autopower roll bar Stripped interior No wipers or motor No HVAC Single driver's Sparco seat Aluminum sheet metal dash and center console Fuel safe 15 gallon fuel cell Full AN -8 fuel system plumbing Full stainless brake lines Arizona Z car 13" brakes sytem all around Koni 8611 double adjustable shocks R180 diff with Nimso 4 pinion LSD Arizona Z car aluminum radiator No windows or regualtor mechanisms in doors Doors lightened 2,150 lbs 47F/53R weight distribution The Rusty Old Datsun 1970 240Z 3L NA L6 Quaife 5 speed Lightened crankshaft Flex plate 5.5" Quartermaster clutch Custom intake Niagra heat exchanger Mild steel 3" exhaust, Borla muffler Kodiak 16 x 10 wheels Hoosier R3S05 tires Carbon fiber hood OEM Steel bumpers OEM Steel bumper brackets Carbon fibner hatch Lexan rear window Dave Kent roll bar Full interior No wipers or motor No HVAC Two Cobra racing seats OEM dash and center console ATL 15 gallon fuel cell Full AN -8 fuel system plumbing Full stainless brake lines Outlaw 2800 11" brakes sytem all around Penske 8760 triple adjustable shocks R180 diff with Quaife pinion LSD C&R/Visteon aluminum radiator No windows or regualtor mechanisms in doors 2,160 lbs 48F/52R weight distribution I guess the above list shows that, at least for heavily modified early Zs, similar weights and weight distributions can be achieved independent of engine choice. I did the chassis and suspension builds on both cars above and I know I could achieve similar results with a V8 engine. I have started on a 1973 240Z using a L28ET and I will most likely hit basically the same weights and weight distributions as above. Despite all the hype, engine choice is not a big issue when it comes to building a great handling, fast early Z. Sorry to disappoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR240Z Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 very well put, this is the closest comparison we have, only difference is that one car being a 260z and the other being a series 1 240z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 Isn't there a 250 lb difference between an early 260Z and a 240Z? Then another 275 from early 260Z to 280Z. It appears that the SR20DET did save weight over the 240. I realize that the 240 has more accoutrement, however the 260 should weigh 250 lbs more according to published specs. I would be happy with 275 lbs more than Amir. I don't have a rollbar, but I do have an interior, spare, etc. That would put me in the 2400 lb range. I would even settle for the 2600 lb range. Can't wait to get to the scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Lewis, that chip should seriously be left on your side of the keyboard. That thread was full of a lot of garbage from a couple of guys, and it needed locked because quite simply there was more emotion and less fact. John said it best in our offline discussion about locking the thread. People pick a motor for personal reasons first... And often those personal reasons have ZIP to do with practical application. This isn't a statement directed at your choice or anyone elses. It's a statement, PERIOD. That said, I don't expect to ever have to justify why we lock a thread again. When the content waivers and the lines blur enough between fiction and fact, we'll shut it down. The data here on this site lives long after our interests in the topic. We take very seriously the responibility to keep the integrity of that information. If you personally don't like that approach, I can recommend a few service providers for starting your own .com/.org/whatever... Mike Kelly Adminstrator at Large! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 Lewis' date=' that chip should seriously be left on your side of the keyboard. That thread was full of a lot of garbage from a couple of guys, and it needed locked because quite simply there was more emotion and less fact. John said it best in our offline discussion about locking the thread. People pick a motor for personal reasons first... And often those personal reasons have ZIP to do with practical application. This isn't a statement directed at your choice or anyone elses. It's a statement, PERIOD. That said, I don't expect to ever have to justify why we lock a thread again. When the content waivers and the lines blur enough between fiction and fact, we'll shut it down. The data here on this site lives long after our interests in the topic. We take very seriously the responibility to keep the integrity of that information. If you personally don't like that approach, I can recommend a few service providers for starting your own .com/.org/whatever... Mike Kelly Adminstrator at Large![/quote'] I ask if his response was based on fact just as you and he did. Does that merit this response? Wow, I admitted a chip on my shoulder about the other thread. Do you have a little 'roid rage or explosive disorder? If I am not entitled to an opinion, please feel free to bar me from this site. I have only been on this site since basically the beginning. If your policies have changed and only certain people are allowed to have opinions, please let me know. Oh, here is a copy of your post from the closed thread. Looks opinionated to me. Can I take an SR20 DET and make it into a bad MOFO and install it in a Zcar or 240SX and make it run like crazy??? Sure. If you have dollars measured in cubic feet' date=' you can do anything. To do it cheap, sure it'll last a few thousand miles. Then you're left with busted parts and a lighter wallet. Not very smart in my opinion. But to each, his own. My stepson can sing you his little four banger turbo blues right along with the rest of you... Anyone can do it. The question is can you do it RIGHT? Most can't. You simply can NOT argue cubic inches... The more you pressurize that little four banger to get that power, the closer to the end of the engines life you come. The same can be said for that V8 motor, when you force more air and fuel down it via turbo or SC, or even Nitros. Bottom line is I can take $5000 and any Chevy motor and make it dependable and make over 450WHP. Do that with an SR20DET and make it last for 120K hard miles... Mike[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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