Sumo Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Recently banned member norm[T12SDSUD] seems to have a bad taste left in his mouth. I just noticed his sig at Zcar.com That's what happens when you dont' read "sticky's" http://www.zcar.com/forums/read.php?f=4&i=284492&t=284492 "This site IS a dictatorship. Its NOT a democracy. The admins and moderators run it AS THEY SEE FIT! Take your free speech arguements somewhere else. Keep it up Norm and you will have to return to your ZCAR.COM sandbox." --John Coffey HYBRIDZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l28et Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Oh well he can go whereever else he wants and talk ****. Whats the point of this thread anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Oh well he can go whereever else he wants and talk ****. Whats the point of this thread anyway? Sumo was simply surprised at what was going on and posted his reaction, simple as that. I think that is the point of the thread, not to necessarily bad mouth Norm. So far, I can't see anything incorrect or not factual with Sumo's post. BTW, I was an advocate for Norm, yet he decided to refer to the admin (I'm a quasi-admin) as inbred. Not nice. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l28et Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Sumo was simply surprised at what was going on a posted his reaction' date=' simple as that. I think that is the point of the thread, not to necessarily bad mouth Norm. So far, I can't see anything incorrect or not factual with Sumo's post. BTW, I was an advocate for Norm, yet he decided to refer to the admin (I'm a quasi-admin) as inbred. Not nice. Davy[/quote'] Thats a terrible excuse to cover what is seemingly an attempt to badmouth or at the very least, continue beating a dead horse. The guys been banned, its all over and done with. Why post something like this in a public forum where you are obviously looking for member response? If this were an admin topic in a sub forum not accessable to those that had nothing to do with the decision to ban/form rules/etc than its understandable. Dont play "laywer games." Its obvious this is a waste of time and a pathetic attempt to display the consequenses of not following HybridZ rules. Hes gone. Let him be and lets move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I don't see anything wrong with this topic. It has a direct and pertinent impact on HybridZ, esp. since Norm is badmouthing us on other forums. If you have a vested interest, or are somehow biased, then maybe you want to recuse yourself, or ignore the thread altogether. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l28et Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 It was a quote from a moderator on this site. If thats bathmouthing maybe some of the things said by this site's representation makes HybridZ look bad. I see where this is going, so Im out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Tims not neccesarily talking about Norms sig, but if you go through some of this posts on zcar he is badmouthing HBZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Keep it up Norm and you will have to return to your ZCAR.COM sandbox." --John Coffey HYBRIDZ I couldn't have said it better myself! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumo Posted May 7, 2006 Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 Thats a terrible excuse to cover what is seemingly an attempt to badmouth or at the very least' date=' continue beating a dead horse. The guys been banned, its all over and done with. Why post something like this in a public forum where you are obviously looking for member response? If this were an admin topic in a sub forum not accessable to those that had nothing to do with the decision to ban/form rules/etc than its understandable. Dont play "laywer games." Its obvious this is a waste of time and a pathetic attempt to display the consequenses of not following HybridZ rules. Hes gone. Let him be and lets move on.[/quote'] I wasn't bad mouthing him at all, i was merely trying to present the point that we have banned other members and never heard from them again. So i was suprised that this guy used the quote from John Coffe as his Sig. hence the subject line "Get over it". I didn't even bring up the subject of him attacking our moderators accusing them of being inbreds. But i found it ironic that he would be angry at this site for antagonizing our moderators especially SuperDan, what did he expect? I agree with you l28et let's move on and let him be but we need to protect HybridZ's rep at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Time out. Let's get one thing straight here guys. When someone leaves this site and goes elsewhere to talk trash about how we sent them packing, I'd like to know. However, when it comes up here on this board and the actions of the moderators are called in question, It deserves discussion. L28ET, Did you know that over the last 6 months Norm was warned REPEATEDLY to curtail his posts? Did you know that there were a number of mods/ admins (myself included) who were chatting with him offline and trying to get him to knock it off without banning him? No, You didn't know that, because Norm isn't going to tell you that... We gave him MANY more chances than any other member in the history of HybridZ, because of his status here and his technical knowledge. We gave him more chances than he deserved, and certainly more than is fair to the rest of you. Maybe Norm's come under a lot of stress in his personal life, or maybe there are other factors at play none of us are aware of... Bottom line is we tried countless times to work with him before we put foot in arse and tossed him. I like Norm. If he came to one of my shindigs, I'd hand him a beer and shake his hand. But we CAN'T allow his behavior on this site and then hammer everone else. We tried to work with him and he SIMPLY WOULDN'T adhere to the rules that ALL of US have to. Here's a tip for ALL reading this. Read the stickies. It's that simple... Read the rules of THIS SITE. If you feel that you have to rant or rave about a topic that can OBVIOUSLY go political, Like the discussion about oil and gas prices, then GO SOME WHERE ELSE to do it. NONE of US wants to pay $3 a gallon for gas, and ALL OF US feel it... We ALL have an opinion on the subject, and I bet WE'RE MOSTLY in agreement that IT SUX. Beyond that, discussing who is at fault or what our government should or shouldn't do is WHERE the discussions lead and WHY we locked the threads and warned those who started them to just post else where on those subjects... THERE ARE MILLIONS of other sites to go RANT about any topic on... BUT NOT HERE. If this bothers you, THEN LEAVE before you get so upset that you post something that WILL GET YOU BANNED... It's that friggin' simple. THIS IS NOT FREE SPEACH on HYBRIDZ. NEVER HAS BEEN, AND WILL NOT BECOME. If this bothers you THEN LEAVE and start http://www.ihatehydridz.org or http://www.normforpresident.com or whatever unbunches your panties... But don't bother posting it here... And as to the comment about a moderator or admin sending someone a PM and then that member going elsewhere and taking that PM and turning it into a slogan or signature on another board... Well again, Norm is making his point about his delicate feelings being hurt... Oh well. Much like methane gas, this to shall pass... John C. did NOTHING to make HybridZ look bad and I applaud him for his repeated attempts to WORK with Norm and try NOT TO BAN him. Anyone caring to discuss this further offline, lets discuss, otherwise, SUMO did nothing wrong in posting this here... I would like to know when people are badmouthing the site, and let me clarify, The Site, Not about me. (*I could give two steaming piles of poo what some spineless coward says about me on a site. If they don't have the stones to come face to face with it, then I don't need to care). However, When it comes to this site, I'd like to be able to fully explain WHY we've done something. Most time we've had an excellent reason for doing something and you guys just aren't given the details... So I'm glad to see this thread and we're not locking it... Norm wants to go to Zcar.com and cry about being banned, that's ok... But I'll be more than happy to explain the TRUTH here. Mike Kelly Administrator at Large Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I always wondered why Norm got the boot after the gas price thread. Afterall he's the 12 second SU carbie guy. I guess I do now. For the record, the admins do a much better job on this site than some forums I used to go to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruxGNZ Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Like Mike, I feel Norm is a pretty cool guy. I looked up to that guy ever since I was on zcar.com six years ago. I talked with him a bit after he got the boot, but didn't know he was on thin ice for so long. I guess that's the reason why he said he was never coming back. I wish he would have played by the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some-Guy Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 "For the record, the admins do a much better job on this site than some forums I used to go to." I have to agree this is an easy site to be apart of, infact The BEST forum I have found so far.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003z Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Like Mike, I feel Norm is a pretty cool guy. I looked up to that guy ever since I was on zcar.com six years ago. I talked with him a bit after he got the boot, but didn't know he was on thin ice for so long. I guess that's the reason why he said he was never coming back. I wish he would have played by the rules.yea, I sold him an LD-28 crank about 7 years ago (I went by Mike'z72 back then). I'm surprised anyone could get banned here. This is the most open minded forum I've encountered, and if the mods/admins see fit to ban someone, they must have good reason, and I am totally behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Personally, I praise the leadership of this forum for refraining from/baning strings that could easily turn political in nature or debate. It was a problem for me, and if I had to list the number one improvement to this site, it was the recognition that this needed to be done. These types of strings cause dissention in the ranks, and many times negated the rich positive aspects of why this site is so well respected. Though we have many opinions about what should/could be done to modify the infamous Z, we should leave it to that subject (as well as some of the more humorous topics) and remain solidified in promoting the hybrid cause. There are many members of this sight that I consider close friends (even though I've never met them face to face) based solely on the love of the Z car. I do not want to taint those relationships with contentious debate about something so personal to me, yet so insignificant to the enjoyment of this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonZ Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 This thread first appeared like a needless smear on Norm's rep. I'm glad M. Kelly cleared up that Norm was extended some courtesy before banning him. Norm seems like a good guy as does John Coffey (though I've never met either) so it's a shame, but I feel the admins had little choice. In a related incident recently, another member's reputation was brought into question, and was banned from defending himself in a particular thread (I did not follow the out come of that soap opera.) As a result, some viewers only saw a one sided story. This calls to mind the principle of charity: that a person or group being criticized should be able to defend themselves. I think it's only fair. At the risk of sliding down the same slope as Norm, knowing that this site is NOT a democracy, I'll say it does not reflect well that action such as bannings are done on a whim --it's the very reason that makes this forum the best it's been -- it's knowledgeable and level headed members. This is not a rant on the management, I'm simply saying, now having a better picture of what was going on, I think it's best to just drop or lock it from here because of the above principle. In the end, it would be tragic irony to have to goto a lesser site such as zcar.com for more open mindedness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 ....http://www.ihatehydridz.org or http://www.normforpresident.com or whatever unbunches your panties... Could you fix the links? They don't seem to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2126 Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Personally, I praise the leadership of this forum for refraining from/baning strings that could easily turn political in nature or debate. It was a problem for me, and if I had to list the number one improvement to this site, it was the recognition that this needed to be done. These types of strings cause dissention in the ranks, and many times negated the rich positive aspects of why this site is so well respected. Though we have many opinions about what should/could be done to modify the infamous Z, we should leave it to that subject (as well as some of the more humorous topics) and remain solidified in promoting the hybrid cause. There are many members of this sight that I consider close friends (even though I've never met them face to face) based solely on the love of the Z car. I do not want to taint those relationships with contentious debate about something so personal to me, yet so insignificant to the enjoyment of this site. Wow Terry.......that was put very well and I concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Could you fix the links? They don't seem to work. Glad we've all kept our "humor" during this trying episode. Guys, we don't want to lose anyone who wants to stay and play by the rules, but as Pete P. put it in another offline discussion, We've always run this like a big party and everyone is invited until they break the rules of the hosts. Hell, I've even lifted a ban of a member who came clean and just apologized for his actions in the past... We work a whole lot more behind the scenes than most of you would probably realize, and we put in a LOT of hours collectively to police this site and try to keep it as close to its roots... Thanks for the support to our Mods and Admins. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 I actually continued the gas price discussion with Norm via PMs and we had a pretty good conversation on the subject that wrapped up just before he got banned. I think it is a loss for all of us that we can't have these types of conversations here. The people of Hybrid Z are of a different sort. Much more of a do-it-yourself and function over form attitude here, which is why I enjoy it so much. It would be great to get this same group of people into a political forum, but that's not likely to happen. It's too bad about his sour grapes attitude though. I don't agree with the Hybrid Z policy, but I'm not about to try and get myself banned over it. WAAAAYYY too much good info here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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