slownrusty Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 this is just becoming a pissing match. they Tell me about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 It is a known fact that 7ms not only suffer the hg problem, but also experience rod bearing failure with great frequency. Go on any supra board and research it. http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=1647694 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafreak Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 only if you dont run the right amount of oil levels. which you gotta be dumb to run a 7m on low oil levels because that motor is sensitive due to the low pressure high flow system. my 7mgte has 309k miles all stock. hg gave out around 170k. did the metal hg wity arps. i rather have have reliability rather than power. never rebuilt my motor but never had any rod problems. i looked at that thread. pretty much everyone gave a reason why they had problems. low oil. ect ect. main reason. other reasons is just age. had mine for 10 years and i agree its a bullet proof block. the head design is somewhat a three angle valve job stock.and also somewhat hemispherical i had another one i worked on. scale to one to ten on easiness. one being 2000 daewoo laganza (i hate) 10 being old school small block i have to say around 7 also nobody takes into account that the 7m is a torque monster. i did a 7mge-t and kept the 9.2comp ratio. i got 218rwhp and 267rwt. at 7psi very fun. hard conversion tho. whatever anybody decides is their opinion and i respect it. just giving a detailed analysis about the 7m. my 7mge-t project cost me $2300 and ran the limits on 93 octane around 10psi. i was running high twelves. but with the rod thing. its just a misunderstanding about oil level sensitivity imo. im not sure about 400+hp tho. only had my na-t around 350hp but from the hks gain thread. they were running 500hp with stock internals reliably two cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafreak Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 imo. the only reason why toyota discontinued the 7m only after 5 years is because of emissions. probably why they came out with the 2.5 1jz to replace it. which is honestly an updated restructured motor. and when toyotas vvti came out they made the 2jz and continued again with the 3.0 7m's power was futuristic back in the day. the ultra high performance 3.0 na made 200hp 190tq stock compare that to jeeps 4.0(high putput i6) 180hp 235tq. close numbers but its a 3litre compared to the 4.0. not ragging on the 4.0 tho. those motors are durable. oh and there was an Aspec race team i remember in japan that raced a souped up turbo A model cant really remember. my best advice on the 7m if anyone stumbles into this thread like i did by chance. is to get one. do the proper mods. its worth it. plus even after 25 years theres still alot of aftermarket support. the torque makes up for the supras thunder thighs believe me. its not a bad handling car either. car and driver(think it was car and driver. that or motor trend) rated it with .86g skid pad pretty good for and late 80s car. also note that it was never meant to be a full on sports car like a rx7 or a Z. more like a luxo cruiser but it deffiantly made them sweat. thanks to the 7m behind the 3600lbs tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyZ Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 All I know is that you can pick up a vg30 or vg33 for a couple hundred bucks. The stock bottom end is good for 500 horses so slap on a big holset and some DSM injectors and go. Dollar for dollar you cant beat the VG, and I am tired of people saying that since something is dohc its better. There are plenty of sohc motors that make big power. Last time I checked simple = reliable. Also its a Nissan, putting a toyo motor in it is like putting a 350 Chevy in a '35 Ford. Its done all the time, but its just wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadianz Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Having worked on a bunch of early 300zx's I would say though they are strong engines, the turbo models are annoying and time consuming to work on compared to a straight six. Also the headers and crossover pipe can crack and leak on the 300zx's and thats just a pain to change, same with injectors thanks to the intake manifold. Both are good cars though. I just get annoyed at how long simple tasks take on the 300zx's compared to a straight 6. All I know is that you can pick up a vg30 or vg33 for a couple hundred bucks. The stock bottom end is good for 500 horses so slap on a big holset and some DSM injectors and go. Dollar for dollar you cant beat the VG, and I am tired of people saying that since something is dohc its better. There are plenty of sohc motors that make big power. Last time I checked simple = reliable. Also its a Nissan, putting a toyo motor in it is like putting a 350 Chevy in a '35 Ford. Its done all the time, but its just wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) All I know is that you can pick up a vg30 or vg33 for a couple hundred bucks. The stock bottom end is good for 500 horses so slap on a big holset and some DSM injectors and go. Dollar for dollar you cant beat the VG, and I am tired of people saying that since something is dohc its better. There are plenty of sohc motors that make big power. Last time I checked simple = reliable. ...................... Problem with the VG30ET is they can't breath sufficiently to deliver decent power, nothing to do with them being single cammers, it's the head design and particularly the lower plenum which restrict them. A comparison with a worked RB30ET which has the same valve gear proves my point, the RB kills a VG. Talking about 500hp for a VG is silly, 350 real wheel hp is about as good as they get. Unfortunately Nissan designed the single cam VG with the restrictions built in, if you want real power get some NISMO heads and matching custom induction setup, like Electramotive developed. Edited March 30, 2012 by 260DET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Im seeing a confusion here. Big power =/= "Better" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyZ Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) Problem with the VG30ET is they can't breath sufficiently to deliver decent power, nothing to do with them being single cammers, it's the head design and particularly the lower plenum which restrict them. A comparison with a worked RB30ET which has the same valve gear proves my point, the RB kills a VG. Talking about 500hp for a VG is silly, 350 real wheel hp is about as good as they get. Unfortunately Nissan designed the single cam VG with the restrictions built in, if you want real power get some NISMO heads and matching custom induction setup, like Electramotive developed. http://www.redz31.net/turbofaq/dyno.graphs.html Seems to me that 350 is a rather large understatement. Look at the link above, most of these blocks are stock. They all have some head work done and big turbos. Alot of these also seem to have gutted plenums. These numbers are at the wheels as well. Getting an RB30 imported and then building it up is gonna cost way more than pulling a junkyard vg30 or vg33, doing head work and bolting on a Holset w/ appropriate fuel upgrades. I am guessing rb30's are rather plentiful for you guys down under, they don't exist with out importing in the states. Also I guess I am a bit perplexed since you have the vg33et build thread, what made you choose a VG over the RB? Edited April 1, 2012 by EmptyZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyZ Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Im seeing a confusion here. Big power =/= "Better" I agree completely, I am saying cost effective power == Better. Along with low end torque and wide powerbands. I am guessing by saying =/= you mean != or not equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 http://www.redz31.net/turbofaq/dyno.graphs.html Seems to me that 350 is a rather large understatement. Look at the link above, most of these blocks are stock. They all have some head work done and big turbos. Alot of these also seem to have gutted plenums. These numbers are at the wheels as well. Getting an RB30 imported and then building it up is gonna cost way more than pulling a junkyard vg30 or vg33, doing head work and bolting on a Holset w/ appropriate fuel upgrades. I am guessing rb30's are rather plentiful for you guys down under, they don't exist with out importing in the states. Also I guess I am a bit perplexed since you have the vg33et build thread, what made you choose a VG over the RB? To be blunt I don't find high power claims for the single cam VG using stock heads and lower plenum to be realistic, possibly due to a variation in dynos etc used to measure their power. I'm using a VG30DET engine now and will keep it in preference to the VG33ET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyZ Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 To be blunt I don't find high power claims for the single cam VG using stock heads and lower plenum to be realistic, possibly due to a variation in dynos etc used to measure their power. I'm using a VG30DET engine now and will keep it in preference to the VG33ET. The ones with the high numbers dont have stock heads, and most have gutted upper plenums like I said. As far as dynos go, yes there can be some variations between different dynos, but not 150 to 200 hp differences. I am glad you like your vg30det but there has long been arguements about its superiority over the vg30e. Mostly due to the difference in number of head bolts and high boost applications. Its all about personal preference I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 By stock heads I mean stock castings as distinct from the NISMO ones also the problem is not with the upper plenum it's with the lower. But I'm just here to relate my experience which is that a VG33ET makes a nice street motor but if you use one for a race application you will be outgunned big time. I might add that a real SAE compliant 350 horses at the wheels is way more than you can use on the street anyway, twin spinners are just a nudge of the accelerator away. I can switch maps with my engine and find ~250whp is much nicer to drive in traffic, accidental wheelspin when the lights go green gets a bit annoying after a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyZ Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 By stock heads I mean stock castings as distinct from the NISMO ones also the problem is not with the upper plenum it's with the lower. But I'm just here to relate my experience which is that a VG33ET makes a nice street motor but if you use one for a race application you will be outgunned big time. I might add that a real SAE compliant 350 horses at the wheels is way more than you can use on the street anyway, twin spinners are just a nudge of the accelerator away. I can switch maps with my engine and find ~250whp is much nicer to drive in traffic, accidental wheelspin when the lights go green gets a bit annoying after a while Lol, well coming from the DSM world I have never had a problem with traction. I have to say I wouldnt mind loosing some traction every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeauty84ZX Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) Talking about 500hp for a VG is silly, 350 real wheel hp is about as good as they get. Pretty bold and inaccurate statement there, and you've been here a while figured you would know better . 350WHP is pretty EASY in a VG30, thats just injectors,turbo and a tune away. In fact with just injectors, small T3/T4 turbo, and a tune (plus basic supporting bolt ons) my brother made 364WHP and 480WTQ(FlawleZ on the forums). Thats with over 200,000 miles on his long block, stock heads, cams, bottom end etc. The car would of made over 400WHP with the same setup if the turbo wasnt out of its efficiency range. His new setup is still on the same old short block but now a bigger 62mm billet turbo, custom turbo manifolds,ported intake manifold and cams, looking to make well over 500WHP on the factory block. Problem is most people cheap out on a proper turbo on the SOHC VGs and they stick with disastrous tuning options like romulator, Nistune FTW. Also the NISMO heads are next to impossible to find as it appears only a handful were ever made. You're better off just porting the heads and getting a nice set of cams and a proper turbo, that will offset any intake flow issues for 99% of peoples goals. Edited April 7, 2012 by RedBeauty84ZX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Will say it again, I'm talking about real genuine SAE corrected DynoDynamics wheel horsepower from a pro built and worked no expense spared engine that I'm familiar with and a dyno operator who calls it real and does not massage figures to keep his customers happy. Using a GTX3582R turbo, max boost 15psi. More boost was tried which improved power a bit but the improvement was nothing like you would expect from say a VG30DETT or a VG30DET running more boost. Which indicates the single cammer does not breathe very well compared with later design engines which have considerably larger intakes, no surprise there. This also shows up at higher revs, power quickly drops off simply because it can't get enough air in through the restrictive intake. This is obvious when any of the 'optimistic' dyno sheets are examined too, just look at the revs that power starts to drop off, that tells the story. I actually like the single cam VG, it's a very compact and light engine but it just not deliver in the real world the power that many claim for it. If it did I would be using one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) In GTU trim, the 7m made 300hp which is what we made at z shop of miami for our GTU car.........with a L28 based engine. In GTP and GTO, toyota went with 4 cylinder engines. Edited April 12, 2012 by HowlerMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Personally, I would take a VG over just about any toyota engine (aside from the diesels) Now as far as saying which is better, well that's just a matter of money. As far as the plenums being a restriction, yes they are huge issue that is VERY overlooked on the VG's thankfully custom plenums are a bit easier to fab up then a set of custom heads and would probably net a good amount of extra power as well as increase intake velocity compared to any stock lower plenum. But we are not here to get into a urinating competition about something as frivolous as who has the better motor, we are here to compare an 87 supra to a z31. (although I really think choosing the 84 to compare is a bad choice) I would say with some minor mods the z would actually hold itself together pretty good, but there is no comparing a modified car against a stock one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelp Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Am I lighting a bad fire again? I'll just leave this here.... 260DET, there are more 450+whp VG30ETs in Z31s than I think of off the top of my head....and they are SAE corrected. Stop being ignorant, mmkay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Am I lighting a bad fire again? I'll just leave this here.... 260DET, there are more 450+whp VG30ETs in Z31s than I think of off the top of my head....and they are SAE corrected. Stop being ignorant, mmkay? I'm past being polite, stupid inflated American HP figures are a joke around the world, get some real dynos and a reality check and then try again. As I have already said, I have a worked more than most VG33ET engine sitting in the garage. The only reason why it is not in the car is because it won't deliver anywhere near 400whp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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