bjhines Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 lightening holes that is.... Some progress on the rear end.... this area will be gusseted to the cage... but it will get lightened as well... the next step is to tackle the front end... there are more than a few things that can be peeled away or punched... like the 1973 frame rail bumper mount reinforcement... this 1973 still has the early style bumper mounts as well... I have a 20 pound box of blanks and brackets I have already removed... not including the spare tire well or any of the damping materials or undercoating.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaysZ Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 how did you do that? hole saw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansel Marrow Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Doesnt that make your car less rigid with all the holes in the frame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 actually punching holes and then flaring the inside edge makes the panel lighter and much stronger. You just have to make sure there is enough metal left so that it is still strong. That design for the rear frame looks light and strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted June 25, 2006 Author Share Posted June 25, 2006 Good quality hole saw and a German drill..... the thin metal was punched with a set of Greenlee panel punches.... the flanged holes were accomplished with a Mittler Bros. flaring die.... obviously I cannot get into a lot of areas with the flaring die... the flaring die also needs a lot of space around the hole.. so the 1" flared holes must be spaced 2" minimum on center.... the actual flared die is closer to 2.5" diameter... though the outside areas can overlap the die somewhat... I read some info about lightening holes and panel punching... I was not very satisfied with what I found.... I just take cues from aircraft information and pictures.... If anyone else has any more info I would love to see it... There are at leat a dozen nuts welded to the chassis panels that were not used in the finnished car.... I think they were there for the fixtures and jigs during assembly.... I am removing ALL OF THEM.... as well as punching and flanging areas that I can get into... Another challenge is the fact that most of the panels that I would like to punch full of holes will open up the interior of the car to exhaust and engine fumes.... soo there are really very damn few places I can go to town with lightening holes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Good quality hole saw and a German drill..... the thin metal was punched with a set of Greenlee panel punches.... the flanged holes were accomplished with a Mittler Bros. flaring die.... obviously I cannot get into a lot of areas with the flaring die... the flaring die also needs a lot of space around the hole.. so the 1" flared holes must be spaced 2" minimum on center.... the actual flared die is closer to 2.5" diameter... though the outside areas can overlap the die somewhat... I read some info about lightening holes and panel punching... I was not very satisfied with what I found.... I just take cues from aircraft information and pictures.... If anyone else has any more info I would love to see it... There are at leat a dozen nuts welded to the chassis panels that were not used in the finnished car.... I think they were there for the fixtures and jigs during assembly.... I am removing ALL OF THEM.... as well as punching and flanging areas that I can get into... Another challenge is the fact that most of the panels that I would like to punch full of holes will open up the interior of the car to exhaust and engine fumes.... soo there are really very damn few places I can go to town with lightening holes.... Well, I hope you're going to leave at least one nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 Wow.. that is a reach.... considering it is getting a V-8 installed in this process I would say this car will have "nuts"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 So you've lost 20lbs by punching holes in all those panels? So if 100lbs of weight savings equals about 10HP, you've gained 2 HP by doing this? Seems like a lot of work for not much of a reward? Does it strengthen the chassi that much? I'm just confused by why someone would go to this much trouble to save a few pounds when making a few more HP is much easier? Guy (Dont take this post in a bad way, I'm just curious ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 So you've lost 20lbs by punching holes in all those panels? So if 100lbs of weight savings equals about 10HP' date=' you've gained 2 HP by doing this? Seems like a lot of work for not much of a reward? Does it strengthen the chassi that much? I'm just confused by why someone would go to this much trouble to save a few pounds when making a few more HP is much easier? Guy (Dont take this post in a bad way, I'm just curious )[/quote'] Interesting point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 So you've lost 20lbs by punching holes in all those panels? So if 100lbs of weight savings equals about 10HP' date=' you've gained 2 HP by doing this? Seems like a lot of work for not much of a reward? Does it strengthen the chassi that much? I'm just confused by why someone would go to this much trouble to save a few pounds when making a few more HP is much easier? Guy (Dont take this post in a bad way, I'm just curious )[/quote'] True, but lightening the chassis reduces the momentum of the vehicle at speed, making changes in speed (acceleration) easier. Braking handling and acceleration are improved by 2hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Once you swiss cheese that Z up theres no going back.....Since your putting a v8 in it, seems like adding a few more ponies would be easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 So you've lost 20lbs by punching holes in all those panels? So if 100lbs of weight savings equals about 10HP' date=' you've gained 2 HP by doing this? Seems like a lot of work for not much of a reward? (Dont take this post in a bad way, I'm just curious )[/quote'] I agree 20lbs isn't that much of a difference in any way breaking, acceleration, and turning. But if you remove 20lbs from that then remove the interior panels 10lbs. Sound deadening 15lbs, and etc... It can easily add up to 100lbs or more which is a big difference in not only acceleration, but also but in how the car drives. I would rather drive a 500hp 2000lbs car than a 1000hp 4000lb car. Sure theoritically(sp) they would accelerate the same but what one would be more fun to drive? The lighter one. I know I know not comparing apples to apples but you get why I love to make my z's lightweight. Then I add the extra power anyway and its all gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I agree 20lbs isn't that much of a difference in any way breaking, acceleration, and turning. But if you remove 20lbs from that then remove the interior panels 10lbs. Sound deadening 15lbs, and etc... It can easily add up to 100lbs or more which is a big difference in not only acceleration, but also but in how the car drives. Yeah but I'm not talking about all those other things, I'm just wondering about all those holes. I understand the concept of loosing weight but these seems a bit extreme, thats all. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonZ Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I don't see how removing metal from the existing sheer panel makes it any stronger. It's certainly stronger than if no panel existed at all, but compared to stock, removing metal only weakens the structure. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 if you but a bend or crease in metal it makes it stronger.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Hard to believe you will notice the lost 20 lbs as quickly as you will notice the chassis flex. But hey, looks like you are keeping yourself busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 if you remove the door panel from your door you will notice the holes that let you see the window regulator mechanism. if Nissan had not put flares on the holes the panel would be very weak and useless. Since they put flares on the metal it became very strong. when you make a hole and put a flare on it then it gains lots of strength. If you don't flare it then the metal will be much worse off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 I weighed my current track prepped 1972 240Z with stock drivetrain... that sucker has a lot of things stripped off of it.... and it weighs 2499 pounds with me in it and 8 gallons of fuel.... A fella in my club is running a very highly prepared 280Z chassis... with fuel injection.... he has gone through the entire chassis and removed every little bracket, nut, bolt, CF hood, etc... his car only weighed 2200 pounds with him in it and 4 gallons of fuel.... we both weigh about 170 pounds.... I am taking this car even further... I have a HUGE PILE of parts that I will weigh when I am done.... ANYONE who knows what they are doing in this respect will agree completely with my approach... lightness makes speed... EVERY ounce COUNTS.... race car builders get a hard on when they can remove another handful of metal... It is all part of the COMPLETE project... I have ABSOLUTLELY NO concerns about chassis flex.... the damn car is getting a full cage... I have another thread about the "tt cage" and chassis reinforcement.... the lightening goes hand in hand with the fact I am adding a whole lot of weight with the cage and reinforcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I'm just confused by why someone would go to this much trouble to save a few pounds when making a few more HP is much easier? And you would lose to the guy that took the trouble to do both. Preparation, preparation, preparation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I weighed my current track prepped 1972 240Z with stock drivetrain... that sucker has a lot of things stripped off of it.... and it weighs 2499 pounds with me in it and 8 gallons of fuel.... A fella in my club is running a very highly prepared 280Z chassis... with fuel injection.... he has gone through the entire chassis and removed every little bracket' date=' nut, bolt, CF hood, etc... his car only weighed 2200 pounds with him in it and 4 gallons of fuel.... we both weigh about 170 pounds.... I am taking this car even further... I have a HUGE PILE of parts that I will weigh when I am done.... ANYONE who knows what they are doing in this respect will agree completely with my approach... lightness makes speed... EVERY ounce COUNTS.... race car builders get a hard on when they can remove another handful of metal... It is all part of the COMPLETE project... I have ABSOLUTLELY NO concerns about chassis flex.... the damn car is getting a full cage... I have another thread about the "tt cage" and chassis reinforcement.... the lightening goes hand in hand with the fact I am adding a whole lot of weight with the cage and reinforcement.[/quote'] I'm curious why you didn't just cut all that structure out. That's what I did with my 240. I wasn't worried about losing any stiffness as I also had a cage. It seemed like far less work. Although I have to admit I like the holes. I would add a couple on the tunnel over the diff bolts. You can plug them and it make taking out the bolts easier if you have a solid mount. For what it's worth my car was 2050 with 5 gallons of gas and a 180 pound driver. I normally had about 50 pounds of ballast in the car. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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