Mikelly Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 bj or mike, i have an spare rear spoiler [same as on my car-except fiberglass]. mounts with 2 bolts from the underside of the hatch. i'd be happy to take care of $ round trip if u would like it for the testing. check my gallery if you're unsure of which spoiler. it's brand new and still hasn't been trimmed after coming out of the 'mold'. david David, Thanks for that reminder... Forgot to get back to you. I think we have that spoiler in the mix already, But I'll double check. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 sorry aboiut that mikelly...I'll just shut up now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 At first I wasn't terribly interested in this because I didn't think it would pertain to my GTO. But the underside is still the same as are the windshield, roof line and the side windows/trim. The doors are basically the same too. I hope these mods are tested seperately as well as together since I won't be changing my body styling... just little things around windows, trim and underside. The one major change I might consider is windshield angle since the original GTO was swept back more. But I doubt it's feasable to test for that:wink: BJ / MIKE... Please PM me with instructions on where to send funds. I don't have or want a PayPal account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 31, 2006 Author Share Posted December 31, 2006 Total donations to date gang are $2604.38 I just tallied up all of the donations, and I'm still sitting on the two checks sent by members, but will deposit them along with those anticipated to be sent beginning of the month... I'll do those deposits and transfer them into the account on or about January 15th. I'll cover ALL of the PAYPAL fees that we've lost due to using their service. To date I've transfered $1600 into BJ's account. BJ has secured the date for the test. That leaves $1004.38 left to pay the WindTunnel folks. So, Since we've got another 2 months to get more funds together, Please remember this activity the next time you log into your paypal accounts... I've had donations as small as $2.76 and as large as $400 (You know who you are!) so no donation is too small or too big! Thanks gang for helping make this a reality! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 MK... If the total donations far exceed the original one-day testing fees is it feasable to add testing of wide bodies and GTO's? That would be great!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 31, 2006 Author Share Posted December 31, 2006 Let me clarify something here for everyone... I'm collecting funds for this effort and helping organize it from affar. I'll be in attendance for the day of the testing, and I've been in contact with John (BJ Hines) and with Ken Jones (Who'll be writting the article). I've weighed in on what I think should be tested from the "average guy" parts availability standpoint, and I'm also weighing in from a guy who goes to the road courses stand point. 99% of those who are on this board will never get their cars up to 150MPH on a roadcourse. Most folks are still going to make a purchase based on how a part "looks" on their car. But atleast they'll know that it's costing them HP and fuel mileage. Again, the goal is to find out what works and what doesn't, giving all of you the info to properly decide on what to purchase for each your needs That said, the above comments were my "opinions" on what this test should focus on. BJ and the guys from North Carolina are conducting the test and taking my opinion, and those of everyone else here and trying to make it all fit into a "day." They're also listening to the pros who run that tunnel. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT as we've never done this before and the folks who own the tunnel run these tests daily. If they say that we're waisting time in testing a certain part, I'd heed the warning. Time is money and we want to maxemize that time and get the most effective use of it. Many of you have no idea what it is you're asking of these guys. Testing multiple cars in multiple configurations is going to be very time consuming. We're trying to come up with the best solution to cover as many bases as possible. IF we get enough funding to cover two days worth of testing, then great. We'll do it. But lining up the cars and their owners, only to have to turn them down at the last minute isn't something I'd like to be a part of. If we get enough donations, I'm game for getting as much testing done as can be done. However, I'm guessing that conducting this testing will be done during a week day. I'm losing on average $1000 per each day I'm not at work. A second day for me would be a costly proposition. I can swing it, but I'm not sure of other folks budgets, schedules, or time availability. Couple that with the fact that it took us so long to get a single date, and I bet we won't get a second consecutive date to stay there and conduct more testing. Mike, I understand that you have a single purpose goal to get data for your kit car. My recommendation is that if that's the sole goal, then maybe you might want to hang on to your donation. I'm not realistically seeing doing the level of testing on all the conventional parts AND doing a bunch of various rebody kits. Maybe I'm speaking out of turn and BJ can set me straight on this one, But unless we get a chunk of change in donations, I don't see a second date, and certainly a second consecutive day is a more unlikely scenario. I do plan to do another day of testing on my car once the Gnose is installed and the car is done and track-ready. I'll publish that data here sometime over the coming year as I suspect it'll be mid to late summer before I can get on the schedule, and possibly later into the year. That'll be on my dime and It'll be a private session for me to try and get the best setup for the car. My intention of posting these comments isn't to put a damper on this testing. I'm 110% behind this effort. Afterall, I started this fund drive to insure this testing is pulled off. But I want to be realistic here in making sure the goals are met. It will take a fair amount of time to swap out a single spoiler or airdam. We've got a NUMBER of these to test alone, and in multiple configurations. We're going to insure we can be the most efficient in the time we have. Beyond that, I'm personally making no promises. Let's keep focused and get those donations in... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 MK... Thanks for clearing things up. I hadn't considered your folks time. I realize there can be sore points about this but I think most of us would understand the necessity of reasonable income reimbursement. BTW, I'm sorry if I'm mucking things up in your thread. I tend to toss out too many "what ifs". This being stated... it would be great if the funds/time allow testing of some body kits. FWIW, popularity is why I mentioned wide-body kits before GTO's. I think it's still worth an investment on my part even though only a few tests will help my personal cause:wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 31, 2006 Author Share Posted December 31, 2006 Nobody is expecting any kind of financial reembursement here, Mike. I'm just illustrating that we're donating our time and trying to make this happen in the most realistic manor possible. Mikelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 MK... I know no one is receiving reimbursement. I only meant that we would understand the necessity for it, particularly if a second day is added for testing. Geez... I can never make my points clear. I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speeder Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 One thing I have not heard discussed, which would be of interest to many here, would be obtaining a contour map of pressure differentials across the surface of the stock S30 hood. This would be extremely helpful to those planning to add vents or scoops (like maybe...me!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledphoot Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 It just makes sense to me that any info gathered from this testing can be applied to street cars as well as track cars...and I totally understand the need for this to be heavy toward the racers needs......so, although I have one old Z I intend to dragrace and play with..... I'm IN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 It just makes sense to me that any info gathered from this testing can be applied to street cars as well as track cars...and I totally understand the need for this to be heavy toward the racers needs......so, although I have one old Z I intend to dragrace and play with..... I'm IN! Actually, That's why I commented to BJ that we should do as many "off the internet stores" parts as we can. MSA and VB (Now Dragon) are the two main sources for parts. John Washington's parts, although a huge step up in quality, aren't as readily available and easily shipped, Although I think we may have a few of his parts on hand as well... We're trying to cover what works for as many applications (street & track) as possible. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 One thing I have not heard discussed, which would be of interest to many here, would be obtaining a contour map of pressure differentials across the surface of the stock S30 hood.This would be extremely helpful to those planning to add vents or scoops (like maybe...me!). Fear not. This issue has already been captured along with the other standard areas that have been noted as trouble problems for decades, and based on the limited info that was made available from testing back in the 70s. And I'm with you... I plan to carve on one of my hoods soon to get the right effect... would be nice to know the best locations before I commit. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 The wind tunnel has the capability to measure pressure at any point on the car. But you have to drill holes at the points of interest, mount a nipple, and run tubes thru the tunnel floor to the basement below the tunnel, which is where the sensors are located. Pressure gradient along the hood would be interesting, but would require a sacrifical hood and eat up a good bit of wind tunnel time setting it up. jt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 jt1, I've got an excellent candidate crappy hood that is straight and can be drilled with as many holes as needed. I know the pressure area issue was discussed, but wasn't sure if anyone has offered up a hood just yet... So I've got one of those we can use as well... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 But you have to drill holes at the points of interest, mount a nipple, and run tubes thru the tunnel floor to the basement below the tunnel, which is where the sensors are located. Pressure gradient along the hood would be interesting, but would require a sacrifical hood and eat up a good bit of wind tunnel time setting it up. jt Some who know me once commented "I can see you doing that"! And that's exactly what is required. I only took pressure plots using manometers and static pressure probes at several areas and with only the purpose of validating where I wanted to place a vent or opening for feeding air to something. That would be a nice countour plot to have. I used an epoxy putty to stick to the bottom of the hood (and cowl) to make the mounting points for the probes---it was easy enough to grind off afterwards and covering up the holes was easy enough as well. One thing to keep in mind (and I agree with MikeKelly's comments about listening to the pros) is that manu times the pros have a specific way of doing things that may be really accurate, or repeatable, but damned time consuming for a test like this. Setting up a grid of holes and epoxy stuck mounts pre-hosed onto a hood or other component may make for some quick changes short of making proper pressure probes and mounts. The pressures you should be dealing with shouldn't be high enough for you to worry about properly threaded nipples, or the like---I'm not advocating bubble gum and spit to hold the probes to the thing, but pretty close! Epoxy Stick is amazing stuff, and when put onto a waxed, painted surface pops off easy enough afterwards. Bondo is also another nice, machineable media that holds threads for nipples as well. I really wish I was closer. With 22 cars out back, there is a decently straight hood out back that just begs to be drilled and set up like this. Thinking along this line, does John Coffee have a rejected FRP example suitable for drilling? Then again, it all comes back to time and it's sounding like the plate is extremely full, so in retrospect, I'll shut up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 There are a few points that I need to discuss with the A2 operators again... 1. I am requesting a packet with more detailed information about the tunnel calibration and techniques... for some of the outside engineers involved... 2. I need to get some more details on the pressure gradient testing apparatus in order to budget time for a gradient map of the hood... We have already budgeted a minimal mount of time for testing flow through brake ducts, radiator inlet, and engine compartment vents... Additional testing for alternate hoods and hood vents is still on the table... Now you guys want to get a pressure map of the hood... My my, how the time flies... and the 500ft spool of vinyl tubing and fittings... lol.. JK... Though the list can get very long indeed... You guys have to remember that we might ditch testing of alternate hood designs and vents in order to get a map of pressures on a stock hood... That does not mean you can take that information and use it to determine what real effect any modifications might have... It WILL give you a good idea of what might work... but then you would crave the actual flow data on the factory 280Z vents... It might be better to test the actual-available modifications FIRST... Then move on with improved designs in a second-future test date... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 wonder what the beta cowl hood will do, as some people say it sucks other say it doesn't ( suck air i mean) i modified one for a zx ! so that would be nice .. what does a 4" cowl do ??? ooh well i just donated to see what comes out .. and learn something .. the read even has been worth every penny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 As I said in the earlier posts... Lets let BJ jt1 and the guys finalize their plan. My guess is that we'll have our hands full just testing the spoilers in different configurations. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Funds sent. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=113366&page=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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