HELP!! Electricians will I burn down my house, kill someone

[DemonZ]

or damage anything?

 

Storm took out power to my house for the 5th day now. I bought an 8k/10k watt generator and want to run juice to the house outlets instead of running extension cords to each appliance I want to run. Question is, if I:

 

 

1) turn off the main breaker (200amp) at the breaker box in the house and

 

2) connect my gen. AC oulet to AC outlet of a room's circuit, then all that rooms' outlets should have juice (provided they share a circuit and switch).

 

I plan to run power from the

generator AC outlet -->extension cord-->pigtail (male to male connection)

-->plug it into wall outlet: that would power that whole circuit, until the circuit breaker on the house or the circuit breaker on the generator trips.

 

I would continue to do this will all 5 of my gen. outlets, powering each circuit I wanted to run juice to. This would save me from running an extension cord to each appliance I wanted to run, and essentially rewiring the whole house.

 

In the event the power from the grid came back on, there would be no harm because the house is disconnected at the main breaker. So essentially the house is isolated/discrete from the grid. It's wired to my generator now.

 

 

Is there a problem with this scenario or my line of thought?? Please chime in with your thoughts, especially any electricians out there or electrically minded people here???? Please help!! I plan on doing this in the morning, 10 hrs from now.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Pop N Wood]

I don't understand what you are doing with multiple extension cords, but yeah if you trip the main breaker and plug the 220 out on the generator into a house plug, it should power up your entire house. I have known several people who have done this for days on end.

 

I should also point out that I have read articles in the newspaper that says what a bad idea this is, but still people do it.

 

You can even go through your breaker box and turn off breakers to circuits you know you don't want power too. 10K is not a lot of power.

 

Remember that construction type generators don't regulate voltage overly well, so if you plug in electronics like TV's or computers there is a risk you could burn them up.

[Cruez]

Some would say that you need s transfer switch so that people working on the lines don't accidentally get a shock..

[naviathan]

Well, with a 8k/10k generator, if it has a main output at 220V you could (while the power is out of course) flip all the breakers off and wire each phase to an opposing breaker in the box. If you know how a breaker box works and how the bus bar is laid out to split the 220 into 110 per breaker you'll know what I'm talking about with opposing breakers. This way you'll have 220 to the 220 breakers and 110 to the 110 breakers and you can leave the main off so you're not feeding juice out of your house and feeding the rest of the neighborhood which would of course burn up the generator. 8k/10k should be plenty of power for one house.

[Dunnie]

Yes you are posing a risk to yourself and others by that method! A transfer switch and an equally matched alternate power source is the only safe way to accomplish your goal. Plus a 8/10k watt gen will blow just by the fridge startup alone! Using extension cords to power the bare essentials, not to exceed the capacity of your gen. is the safest way to go with what you have.

 

I'm a network engineer and work with electricans setting up Data Centers, so I've been taught how to properly setup backup power systems.

[mark]

Do you have a 220 outlet in the garage or something? Pull the meter so you disconnect the house from the service. Turn off all breakers. Plug the 220 from the generator to the 200 outlet on the house.

 

Pick and chose the breakers you turn on to run the house. 8K will not run my house. Don't know about yours.

[naviathan]

A fridge does not pull 8k at any point. In the Army we ran half our camp off a single 10k and barely pulled 50% load. We still had wet stack issues on it with all the A/Cs on and every light microwave refridgerator (we went to the field in style). It'll be fine. The only thing I worry about is which breakers he wires it to, how thick a cord he uses and what he considers essentials. Fridge is ok, but water heater is not. Microwave is fine, but central air and stove are not. Pick and choose wisely.

[Dunnie]

A fridge does not pull 8k at any point. In the Army we ran half our camp off a single 10k and barely pulled 50% load. We still had wet stack issues on it with all the A/Cs on and every light microwave refridgerator (we went to the field in style). It'll be fine. The only thing I worry about is which breakers he wires it to, how thick a cord he uses and what he considers essentials. Fridge is ok, but water heater is not. Microwave is fine, but central air and stove are not. Pick and choose wisely.

 

Yes a fridge and small amount of other essentials should be fine, I meant when the fridge 1st starts up it will pull alot off that little generator. Also, you're saying the generator running your camp was 10k watts??? Or 10kva, there's a big difference there.

 

I'm not busting on you either, just don't want the original poster to burn his house down or worse, hurt someone.

[naviathan]

10k watts. It was the smaller of the generators we had. The rest of the battalion used a 30k and it kept going down. Being the maintenance company we had to stay up and that 10k never failed.

[ezzzzzzz]

Points to ponder. If you do this half-arse hook-up YOU are FULLY reliable for ALL damage, injury and death which may ensue. Your insurance company will drop you like a hot potato. How would you feel if you burnt your home to the ground? How would you feel if a lineman got shocked to death by backfeed to a circuit he expected to be dead? I could go on and on with this rant. The answer is to pony up the $$$ for a manual or automatic transfer switch and have it installed by a qualified electrician unless you are fully capable of doing this. Anything worth doing is worth doing right....period.

[Ledphoot]

I have a welder type socket wired into my breaker box for just this application since I live in Hurricane country. I use a 10k and power the fridge, TV,dvd, lights,and fans with no problems. Just dont try to use hot water heater, centeral ac or stove. I bought a small one room AC and use it but turn other stuff off. When you cut the main breaker to the house you are disconnected from the main feed so you don't bleed off power and cant hurt anyone else.. cut off all unused breakers so no one forgets and turns on something they shouldnt. Be sure to disonnect everything before you flip back to line service when power returns.

[Pop N Wood]

Damn guys. Why all the gloom and doom? He is just trying to get through with no power.

 

You don't have to have an automatic transfer switch as long as you are careful about manually flipping the breakers. You won't burn your house down either. 10KW is actuall a good sized generator. I know for a fact a 5KW generator is more than enough to put between two houses and run the fridge, freezer and a bunch of lights in both houses. You can even run the blower motor on a gas furnace (but not electric or heat pump!) Things like washer and dryer, electric stoves, dishwashers and large power tools are off limits.

 

Your generator will have a 220V outlet that has some rated output in amps. Probably 20 or maybe 30 amps. Make sure the circuit you plug it into is has a breaker larger than the one on the generator. Also make sure the cord you use to connect the generator to the house plug is large enough for the rated amps on the generator plug. Once you are hooked to the house just be careful what you turn on.

 

10kw will easily run your fridge, freezer, sump pump (if you have one) and a good number of house lights. It will even run the fan on a gas furnace allowing you to have heat. Turn on few things at a time and watch the generator to see what it is happy with.

 

When the power comes back on, turn off the generator and disconnect the power cord from the house BEFORE closing any breakers again.

[mark]

Listen to POP.

[naviathan]

Don't plug it directly into an outlet. Wire it into the breaker box appropriately. 220V into an outlet it just a bad idea. The system was designed to feed off the breaker box, let it do so.

[alexideways]

A friend's dad once did that during our monster ice storm here in Canada back in 98, I understand that it's not the SAFE way to do it but, it'll work.

[DemonZ]

I decided to just run extension cords to power strips, then to appliances until I researched this more fully, since there were so many dire warnings from my search. The 8k/10k was running my fridge, small microwave, (2) 1500W space heaters, (5) flourescent shop lights, and a couple other small devices. One gen. circuit breaker kept tripping because the heaters were on same breaker, when i seperated them all was fine and gen. was running strong, didn't sound strained at all. I think it could've powered more than half the house easily. I wouldn't have tried to power any 220v like dryer or air compressor, at least not yet until I had all the essentials.

 

 

 

Just as I was about to wire my gas furnace blower, I heard the power come back on from a radio I plugged in just for that reason. In all I got 2-3hrs on the gen, and still glad I bought it "just in case" next time, and it's another toy Plus my dad still doesn't have power so I'm sure he'll be happy. I sure appreciate the little things in life, like hot water, heat and roof over my head. Can't imagine what Katrina and other storm victims go through...

 

 

When I have time, I'll make a double pole manual transfer switch. From what I gather, this safety device won't let you connect gen. power to the grid power (backfeeding) --it's either one or the other, never both. I suppose this makes it idiot proof, or in the event the main breaker fails??? nobody gets hurt/killed. Do I have that right?

 

 

I gotta run and fix some vent hoods and shingles that blew off, and sinks that leak now from the 42 deg... nights. I guess the cold shrank the seals or something but I came home from inlaws to some puddles and was like huh? DAMN!!! And the gen is louder than I like. Time to make quiet hi-perfomance muffler, when I have time...

 

 

Thanks guys!

[Buzz]

Dude: If you have a 2 pole breaker in your pannel 30,40,50,amp take the wires off of that one, unless you have a spare 2 pole in panel not being used. attach your 220 from your generator to that breaker(hot wires) and attach the ground (green or bare)to your ground bar and (white) to neutral bar and back feed the power threw the whole house.It will work fine.Don't forget to turn off the main breaker!!! and turn on the 2 pole breaker the gen is attached to.Every thing in the house should have power except the wire you took off.8-10k should do a good job of running the house maybe not electric stove.Or welder.No heavey loads,The smaller the breaker you use to attack the gen the less of a load you can have.8K is a good size. Temp set up but it will work fine.

[Tony D]

WOAH!

 

Guys, do NOT plug a cable into the house outlet and backfeed the grid...

 

I would say listen to Buzz. This is the way I ran my house for a week while waiting for a service connect.

 

What you can do to be safe (extra safe) is to remove your power meter. It pulls out, if you have no power, what's the diff, right?

 

Anyway, you pull that meter, and you will not backfeed the grid no matter what you do in your own box. Like Buzz said, you can easily hook up to either the main breaker that powers the buss bars, or wire back through an unused breaker. You could go pick up a 20A 220V breaker, wire to it, and install it in a 220 opening in the breaker box, and simply trip the service disconnect breaker at the box to isolate from the grid.

 

To go back on the grid, you will simply power down everything in the house, shut down the generator, and disconnect your breaker (either the one you installed, or wherever you hooked the generator...) Then restore the cover, flip your service disconnect back on, and you are set.

 

If you leave a spare 20A 220V breaker in there, and leave your SO4 cord attached, but with the breaker tripped off, you are just a plug-in and generator fire up away from repowering your house (after the main service disconnect is pulled).

 

Those transfer switches are the "proper" way to do it, but I've had a 50A SO4 cord attached to my box since 1997...when I first hooked it up! If the power goes out, I pull out the generator, plug it in, and fire it up. Flip, tug, flip, and I am the only one in my neighborhood with power! With the same caveats as Buzz mentions.

 

I would NEVER run power back through a normal house outlet. Bad Idea IMO.

[Pop N Wood]

Anyway, you pull that meter,

 

Oh man, have to disagree with that one. You still have to remember to disconnect the breaker you installed to the generator either way so I don't see your method being any safer. Plus, I don't know about your area, but my power meter is sealed in place with lead seals. I would have to break those seals to "pull the meter" which means the power company has to come out to reinstall the meter. Then they are going to want to know if I tampered with the meter and most likely want to charge me a service fee.

 

But the #1 reason not to do it that way is the power could come back on at any time you are F'ing around with the meter, so in effect you could be working on a live circuit and not knowing it.

 

Power will flow back through a breaker just as easily as it flows out of the breaker. The only two dangers of running the the generator back through a breaker is forgetting to disconnect the main breakers and having a power cord with two male ends.

 

But when in doubt, the extension cord method works.

 

Like I said as long as you are careful flipping the breakers the back feed method will work in an emergency.

[Airjockie]

AC Current is that...alternating current...

 

in dire time, and dire times only, plug the generator into the clothes dryer receptical, and turn off all un-nessisary breakers.. It will backfeed in as 220 from the 220 wires, and get back to the CB box, and be redistributed correctly to the other CBs. Go get a dryer wire and a plug that fits your generator, and hope that the generator will reach from the outside...do not run the generator in the house...carbon monoxide is bad...very bad. Power comes back on, then unplug, and carry on with your life.

 

That was my neighbors idea..I'm not an electrician, but he said it should work. And it sounds better than adding CB and wires into houses panel.