You get what you pay for - Chinese drill press

[Daeron]

Funny thought, I was buying I-R Impact "Tune Up Kits" for our nice IR gun, at $58 a piece. Till I realized the HF gun could be bought for $58 COMPLETE and lasted the same 6 months as the tune up kits in heavy industrial use. For the $58, I started buying a NEW HF gun every six months, and giving the old guns to operators for 'personal' use---that kept them hammerring away on flanges and stuff with their OWN gun, and not using the 'shop impact' which meant the $58 tune up kit in the IR-Gun started lasting a year or more. So I kept my "Good Gun" longer, and they had something just as good for everyday use. Everybody won!

 

 

 

I worked at a tool repair shop, an authorized IR warranty and service center, and I must have installed hundreds of IR "tune up kits." It shocks me to hear that they typically last only six months in your experience; we normally only found that when the customer was overcompensationg for poor FLOW with higher PRESSURE, using dirty air, or not using enough oil.

 

Not trying to be accusatory, more trying to figure out the discrepancy...

 

as for other harbor freight stuff, I use the diamond bits and grinding blades ALOT. If you do any work on glass, and are NOT a professional, there is no other way to AFFORD it, because their diamond bits are literally about 5% what most stuff costs..

 

One word of advice, do NOT buy their metric flare nut wrenches!! I would rather use an OPEN END craftsman than a harbor freight flare nut wrench. Grinding discs, sanding belts, cut-off wheels..

 

OH YAH that beautiful aluminum racing jack they sell?? we havent exactly put it to HARD use but it seems to work FINE, and my brother has had it for about three or four years now...

 

without harbor freight, alot of us would be SOL... it is interesting, though, that it is cheaper for the chinese to manufacture the tools, AND SHIP THEM OVER HERE, than it is for us to ship our good tools 1000 miles to do a job. God bless America, huh?

[datsunlover]

See, it's funny with 'tools' cause evryone uses tham diffrently.. Working in a machine shop, makes me expect a lot out of your average tool, even if it's just for my personal use at home.. Not that I'm overly rough on tools, but they shold perform and last as far as I'm conserned..

 

Up here, there are a few stores simmilar to Harbour freight (Princess auto, Buisy bee tools) that sell.. for the most part, what I would call sub standard tools. Poor assembely, bad/weak designs, lots of crappy flimsy stuff.... Mini mills, lathes, drill presses, air tools, wrenches, ect. You really have to look at what you're buying and sometimes, you can get something decent.

 

My electric impact gun (yes, it works quite well!) was dirt cheep, and has a sticker on it that says 'power fist'. Now, this is a brand that for the most part, is absolute JUNK. Thing is, SOME of their stuf, is actually decent name brand's simply re-badged. (seconds, scratch/dent, ect) I have a set of ratchet wrenches I'd SWEAR were Benchmark, but have diffrent badging. My 1/2" impact gun is a 'Dewalt' brand gun with a diffrent sticker on the side. (I have compared it side by side with my boss's Dewalt, and it IS identical, save for the scratch in one side, and a broken case.) I paid $59 and my boss paid $229.

[Daeron]

I forgot to throw in my favorite name for Harbor Freight.. Chinamart.

[280z1975]

See, it's funny with 'tools' cause evryone uses tham diffrently.. Working in a machine shop, makes me expect a lot out of your average tool, even if it's just for my personal use at home.. Not that I'm overly rough on tools, but they should perform and last as far as I'm concerned..

 

Up here, there are a few stores simmilar to Harbour freight (Princess auto, Buisy bee tools) that sell.. for the most part, what I would call sub standard tools. Poor assembely, bad/weak designs, lots of crappy flimsy stuff.... Mini mills, lathes, drill presses, air tools, wrenches, ect. You really have to look at what you're buying and sometimes, you can get something decent.

 

My electric impact gun (yes, it works quite well!) was dirt cheep, and has a sticker on it that says 'power fist'. Now, this is a brand that for the most part, is absolute JUNK. Thing is, SOME of their stuf, is actually decent name brand's simply re-badged. (seconds, scratch/dent, ect) I have a set of ratchet wrenches I'd SWEAR were Benchmark, but have diffrent badging. My 1/2" impact gun is a 'Dewalt' brand gun with a diffrent sticker on the side. (I have compared it side by side with my boss's Dewalt, and it IS identical, save for the scratch in one side, and a broken case.) I paid $59 and my boss paid $229.

 

 

Along with Z cars, my other passion (job) is cycling. There are a lot of bikes that come out of China, but they are all sub-standard ... read, what you would buy at Wal-mart. They are great for the kids, even someone who goes every once in a while on a bike ride with their kids, but they won't hold up under full time use.

 

Now as far as bikes, the best "cheap" ones come out of Taiwan. There are about 4 factories which produce most all of the bikes that come out of there. Of course there are about 100 different cycling brands all putting their sticker on these bikes. If you know what to look for, you can tell which factory certain frames came from.

 

Even Colnalgo (the "Ferrari of cycling bikes" which btw produced a limited edition of Ferrari licensed bike a couple of years ago) out of Italy has contracted their lower end bikes to Taiwan. The high end stuff is still done in Italy, but I really wonder how much longer.

 

So many of the same tools are all produced at the same place, just bought at wholesale and repackaged. Same goes for computer parts ...

[Tony D]

"we normally only found that when the customer was overcompensationg for poor FLOW with higher PRESSURE, using dirty air, or not using enough oil."

 

AB-SO-LUTELY! Running the guns at 120psi inlet through a 3/8" ID hose on utility air and no oil to break 1 7/16" bolt loose on flanges daily. Like I said, once I got the tool into the MECHANIC'S control, and gave the OPERATORS their own guns, the IR started lasting longer, over a year between overhauls. But the operators still burned up their guns on a regular basis. Funny thing, using the Snap-On 1" impact in 600 ft-Lb service on head bolts, the thing was well over 5 years old and still was going strong. Simply because THAT service was hot, heavy, and a total Beyotch, and the OPERATORS steered clear of the HOT HUMID Engine Room! Work outside breaking flanges, suuure! Actually WORK? Not on your life! Curiously, the MECHANICS oild that big 1" daily, and ran it on the INSTRUMENT AIR HEADER....

 

CDA is CDA! "Clean Dry Air" No argument here from me at all. I'm just telling the facts from the real working world.

 

Without calling the Operators a bunch of slack-jawed idiots that didn't know one end of a wrench from another who THOUGHT they were mechanics, because after all "Grease Monkey" is a generic term for Mechanic, right????

 

Oh, I'll also add that the former 'mechanic' at the site continually cried that the I-R air starters only lasted a few months before needing a vane package and overhaul. My diagnosis of the big smoky acrid cloud from the starter on startup made me think "gee, shouldn't there be an oiler on there?" Shure enough, Einstein had REMOVED the oilers LONG AGO (like 8 years!) because 'they were just runnning through oil like crazy, and don't do anything anyway'....

I'd tear down those starters, and they were scored, had blue heat marks on the vane barrels, CRACKS from spot heating, and vanes cooked to within an inch of their life. His instruction to me on removing the reduction gear was "You take a punch and beat the hell out of the gear till it pops out off the snap ring, and usually you have to replace the shaft"---I asked why he didn't rotate the gear till the snap ring was visible in the HOLES of the Reduction gear, and stick a snap ring pliers in there to release the snap ring...

 

Hey, in the industrial world of the USA, there is no appreticeship program, no competence testing---this guy got his job because mommy was diddling the safetey manager, and she wanted him out of the house. I got my job there (I'd like to think anyways) because I was qualified technically.... Yeah, after I rebuilt the first starter, and installed it along with the original oiler amazingly you only had to fill the oiler after each third start of the engine, and the starters ran for almost 4 years till I-R offered us a direct upgrade to their newere generation Turbine Air Starters which used less air and made more torque than the old vanepacked units.

 

Oh, please don't get me started on that place, it was literally 'the little shop of horrors'---the stories I can tell!

 

And being that I'm a Factory Field Engineer for IR Direct now....those stories really help me illustrate those EXACT points of CLEAN, DRY, AIR to customers! LOL

[Daeron]

Hey, in the industrial world of the USA, there is no appreticeship program, no competence testing---

 

Great story, man. We had this weird thing (i have NO idea what to call it) that we used for testing the maximum torque on the guns we rebuilt (up to 1 inch IR, snap on, and chicago pneumatics mostly..) It was basically a very large stud (1 1/2" diameter??) with a large nut on it, and a hydarulic plate on the back.. we would crank the gun up to full flow (we had a 3/4 inch air line going 30 feet from the compressor, through a dryer and oiler, and down to this station) and hit away at the thing. I have personally taken "broken" guns (anything from vanes and rotor to destroyed hammer cages or anvils or even casings) and rebuilt them new enough to achieve over 1200 ft-lbs of torque, as detected by that little device.

 

Its just like turbocharging.. you do NOT get good power to your gun if you do not have ADEQUATE FLOW through your pipes.

 

TonyD, when I first started reading your posts on zcar.com (years and years ago) i almost thought you were kind of an ass... THAT did not take me long to stand corrected on, and I think every day that has gone by I have grown to like you a little bit more. It is cool to find that we have some common experiences.

 

Thanks for spending so much time here helping us pea-brained folks

[Tony D]

No, I'm a a$$, really! just ask the folks at ZC.C in the "Tony D Voodoo Doll Collector's Club"

 

LOL

 

Some of the sharks are circling now on one post in particular. How entertaining...

 

One of my best Torque Specifications came from the Cooper-Bessemer Manual, Head Bolt Torque for a GMVHS V16 Natural Gas Integral Compressor:

 

9 Foot Bar, Six Men, Strong Pull.

 

Matter of fact, almost ALL the torque specs for that engine were quoted that way---something designed in the early 1930's. I could just see those guys doing that! Eventually they succumbed due to pressure from NASA/JPL and in the early-mid 90's converted them to actual REAL foot-pounds. Those head bolts were torqued to 1600 ft-lbs. 8 per head, 16 heads. Plus the compressor section...

I can imagine that the last bolt torqued by the 1930's methodology might just maybe might have a tad less torque on it than the first one done on the other side if they kept the same crew torquing all the them! Heck I would do em all using a torque multiplier and 600 ft-lb Snap On torque wrench and then take a break! Manually? "The days when men were men!" LOL

 

Yeah, I felt REALLY priviledged to grow up in the age of Pneumatic and Hydraulic Wrenches!

[bjhines]

I think there is more than one source for the Harbor Frieght USA tools. Or maybe the source is all China but some of their items come from higher quality chinese factories than others. It takes a good eye to spot the best deals on functional quality tools.

 

I would assume that a Western manufacturer has set up a Factory in China to produce it's high quality brand for less. The Western company moves to another supplier somewhere else... but the Chinese Factory keeps cranking out the same tools with minimal exterior changes. Counterfieting? HFTools?... That might give you an idea of just how much markup there is on your favorite name brand tool.

 

The really bad stuff is just that..really crude, really bad, virtually useless.

I have to draw the line at the pliers that bend with a light grip, Sheetmetal cutters that bend out of alignment with minimal effort, screwdrivers that round off like they were made of plastic.

 

I purchased one of their 8x12" metalworking lathes. I am no expert, but by all indications it is a useful piece of equipment for the $450 pricetag. I also have one of their drill presses, It needed a little smithing to get it right, but I did not have any issues with debris in the castings.

 

I think quality control is the biggest hurdle for the distributors right now. There is so much frenzied growth that supplies and manufactured items are flying around at light speed over there. The stuff just falls out of a container on our shores. Then off it goes... straight to market... without a glance from a QC inspector. You gotta be your own QC system while shopping. If you don't like what you see right now... then come back in 3 months.

 

 

I see a lot of stories from everyone that remind me of my own experiences at discount tool stores. I can remember seeing a lot of Indian and Pakastani items 15 years ago. It's all China now.

[Doug71zt]

Best 1/2" impact gun for the money - IR231 all the way. I'm on my second one in 18 years. The first one is still running, in farm service. I will not buy a cheap die grinder/air drill for aircraft sheet metal work - Desoutter/Dotco/CP/IR all the way there. But it is just myself using these tools - they are taken care of. They last a long time with clean air and lubrication.

 

As for drill chucks, Jacobs industrial is good for the money - the Multicraft series are absolute junk. I rarely use a key on my 1/4" Jacobs chuck - just spin it tight and give it a thump in the tighten direction with the heel of my hand.

 

My drill press has a eastern European keyless chuck on it, can't remember the manufacturer off hand. It is a nice unit and was reasonable in price.

 

Doug

[blueovalz]

Though you guys would get a chuckle out of the following. The left side chuck came with the drillpress, and was for practical purposes useless. The right side chuck is the Jacobs chuck, and it's a beauty. Whats hard to believe here is that BOTH of these chucks, despite the large size differential, have the SAME capacity (1/8" - 3/4"). Live and learn.

[Mike C]

Great stories. I do a board called Pirate4x4.com and they have lots of good and bad HF stories. You can find a link over there to a 20% off coupon for HF that they'll take even on sale items (just one item)! I got their metal cutting circular saw normally $99 on sale for $79 and then 20% off that.

 

If you buy electric stuff, look at the designations. Some of it is UL, CE, CS approved and double insulated. That's the good stuff. The tools without the ratings stink it up. At least some of it is made by Jepson who is an OEM supplier as well.

[madkaw]

Buy the insurance for 10$ and don't worry about it for a year or 2. I bought a heat gun for 10$ and another 10$ got 2 year warranty. Just take it back in an exchange it if you have any problems. I also just bought a 12" table disc sander for 100$. The thing weighs 85lbs and runs quiet. I bought the insurance for 10$ so I am covered for another year. I couldn't find anything that came close to that for that price though i know it's a cheap tool it will probably last me forever as much as i use it as a hobbyist. I bought the sander to do my exhaust system, what a life saver for making those angles.

[Cody 82 ZXT]

I bought the sander to do my exhaust system, what a life saver for making those angles.

 

I've been eyeing those sanders. Thanks for the info.

[ToplessZ]

I know this probably shouldn't be my first post upon my return from my 3 month stint in Europe but I just had to put in a good word for my faithful harbor freight "junk." I must say that my hand tools all of which were acquired for next to nothing have weathered fabulously. I do tile work and use mostly their equipment. First off new tools are a tax write off so if I buy new ones often no biggie. However, I have almost all of their wet saws including the two large ones and have not had a problem yet. They are great MK copies and with my MK hot dog blades they do just great. Havn't killed one yet. I did a couple of very tiny filing modifications on the Large saw to make the blade fall lower but other then that no problems. At 1/5 the cost new (mine was even cheaper at half of that price) I could buy one for each job and still come out ahead. I use their 1/2 inch reversible hammer drill to mix grout and thinset and their small tile cutters do a good job as well. I love my little red portable wet saw that just won't die. I use their 4.5 inch angle grinder all the time (the orange one) and I can't seem to kill it. Their die grinder, da sander, Air line sander, polisher, jitterbug, spray guns, electric planer, small drill press, electric paint sprayer, battery charger, etc...(very large collection) have all held up amazingly. With my tile tools I have a backup of everything that I have never had to fall back on. The only thing that has ever broken on me were screwdrivers and I just keep them around and the next time I go to harbor freight they give me new ones. Their lifetime warrenty on hand tools is great especially since they beat Sears all day long on prices. I love harbor freight especially with my 20% off coupons.