Daeron Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Like I have said repeatedly: 'Just because you screwed your sister for 17 years doesn't mean it's right!' Wait.. Seriously?? Man, I must have missed a memo... Looks like I've got another one of them "life changes" comin' up again... But seriously, folks... I just wanted to point out one thing. BRAAP, as usual, you were enlightening and colorful; you always give us such a wonderful look inside the mind of those of you on the higher level of "playing with cars..." I thank you for your thorough explanation and debunking. I have to say that coming from the side of Hybridz with more time under a hood than in a classroom or office, sometimes these semantic arguments are the hardest to really comprehend in a mannner that allows us to "fight the good fight" out there on the frontlines of ignorance. Above and beyond that, though, this thread and situation REALLY does illustrate the difference between a thoroughly experienced and wise, yet uneducated "knowledge" and the "knowledge" of an individual with no MORE time in the industry, but solely more education (whether technical-trade type school or engineering degrees) tipping the balance to their side. In other words, no matter how good you make yourself without it.. School makes sure that you know how to fill EVERY crack, and know how to do it right, AND why the right way is "right." I spent one year in a four year college... I've had just enough education to know what it is that I am, and am not missing... rest assured I am missing the important parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted June 19, 2007 Administrators Share Posted June 19, 2007 the way water expansion will work, is it will freeze and take the easiest way out...this way is the freeze plug....not cracking iron........ if you drill a safe with a 2 inch hole at the top, fill it to the brim with water, and freeze the safe, the water will expand and dribble out the top, and freeze....the safe wont crack!!! Doesn't seem to be the case with this Pepsi can... filled with water, top left open for 'the easy way out', and it still split the can... Clearly a safe would hold out a little longer, but in the end, the same thing will happen... as it will with your engine. Not specifically picking on you... it just seemed like an easy target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbleguinea Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 i dont think im getting picked on at all!!! im just relaying information from my co-workers...thats all in ALL of our automotive books, they are listed, from the factory, as FREEZE plugs and EXPANSION plugs....companies such as Doorman, and motomite.... once again: to clarify: i agree with yall completely.... im just trying to convice these guys...but its not working.... some information they have found, is that "plug holes" in block are used for the casting process AS WELL AS for "freeze plugs" i.e. some are from the cast molding....... their reasoning is that why would you need 6 holes on one side, 6 on the other, and two up front, and two and back, if they were all for these "casting holes"???? once again, just relaying information long live core plug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 I just submitted this to Mythbusters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted June 20, 2007 Administrators Share Posted June 20, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbleguinea Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 see that would be awesome, but what if they did it, and it poped the plug out and saved the block, like my friends L28 i think it mostly has to do with luck....and not freezeing completely all the way through.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Doesn't seem to be the case with this Pepsi can... filled with water, top left open for 'the easy way out', and it still split the can... Clearly a safe would hold out a little longer, but in the end, the same thing will happen... as it will with your engine. Not specifically picking on you... it just seemed like an easy target Was this can running any anti-freeze ?, I would think all this talk about freezing water in engine blocks could be fix by running anti-freeze in the cooling system my 2 cents worth and I have always called them welsh plugs.. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted June 20, 2007 Administrators Share Posted June 20, 2007 I would think all this talk about freezing water in engine blocks could be fix by running anti-freeze in the cooling system Exactly. The manufactures don't give a hoot if you split your block becuase you were too ignorant to use antifreeze. Core plugs are not there for your protection... or theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 "their reasoning is that why would you need 6 holes on one side, 6 on the other, and two up front, and two and back, if they were all for these "casting holes"????" It's symetrical---if you knew about how cores are positioned for the casting process, it would become evident. Sand isn't particularly strong, and needs support in lots of places. They support cores. But you still haven't answered the primary busting question: if they are 'freeze plugs' why are they in the intake manifold plenum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Just a note for this thread incase anyone is looking for information on where to get freeze plugs locally (yes I say freeze plugs because Advance and AutoZone both list them as such) Advance only has the 35mm and 40mm plugs in steel. AutoZone has the 35mm in brass and steel and the 40mm and 50mm in steel only. NAPA lists them all in brass as instore only and they also list them as "Expansion" plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted June 27, 2007 Administrators Share Posted June 27, 2007 Rusch Motorsports also sells steel and brass core plugs, in complete sets for the Datsun L-series, (Pioneer brand). We feel that the core plugs we sell are at least equivalent to or better in quality and function to the OE and other aftermarket “freeze” plugs. As such, we do not warranty the freeze/core/expansion plugs or ANY engine part or parts that may suffer a crack or breakage from the result of water freezing in the engine. For those of you that have been keeping your finger on the pulse of the FREEZE plug design and evolution, please be aware that the freeze plug industry has been intently working, since the dawn of casting metals, on a full functioning FREEZE plug that will releave the freezing pressures within the engine block, cylinder head, AND the plenum of L-28 EFI manifolds, with 100% assurance of no cracks or breakages. (Hey Tony. The freeze plug in the end of the L-28 EFI intake plenum is for protecting the manifold against cracking during carburetor icing). Until the Freeze plug industry does make that breakthrough, (and believe you me, we will be the first to let you all know), anyone smart enough to still trust the current-modern, or even the original old school freeze plugs, to protect their engines from freeze breaks obviously knows that all those broken blocks and heads that come into the machine shops all across the country, (especially in the northern portion of the states and more often between November and March, for some odd reason) are cracked and broken due to stuck fast idle cams on the EFI system, not routinely rotating the spark plugs, not enough O-2 sensor fluid, excess throttle shaft chatter, clogged idle jets in the fuel injectors, and because the pistons reciprocated. Like duh... . So if anyone calls up or posts Rusch Motorsports asking for freeze plugs, we will politely remind them that until the freeze plug industry gets the freeze plug design working with 100% reliability, we strongly recommend the use of core plugs AND some form of antifreeze for winterizing their engines. Even with today’s antifreeze prices, this route is by far the least costly route to winterize your vehicles engine, at least till the freeze plug industry is able to design a truly functioning freeze plug… It has been brought up that in the parts catalogs at certain parts stores, these plugs are listed as freeze plugs. Well, I feel it is truly one of two reasons. Which one do you subscribe to?... 1) They are anticipating the freeze plug industries big break through in making them 100% functionally reliable?… 2) It has to do with whole myth in the first place. (as covered in depth much earlier in this thread). The term “freeze plug” picked up momentum amongst the shade tree and not so mechanically inclined public, and the guys you find behind the parts counter fall into that same category, (if they were more mechanically inclined, you would find them on the other end of a wrench instead of selling freeze plugs). Being as this improper term is still being thrown around as educated fact, (evidenced by the mere presence of this thread), and the not so mechanically inclined general public still “says” freeze plug, the catalog publishers knowing full well the correct terminology, still print it in the format that parts guys like John Q. Public can easily look up, to sell across the counter?… A BRAAP satire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin.pk Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 A BRAAP satire... that was great... i enjoy a good satire I'm just waiting until you are pushed far enough to throw a water filled l-engine in to a deep freezer and take pictures of the split block:mrgreen: Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Hahaha, I love a good BRAAP satire. BTW I wasn't negating anything with my post, I was simply stating that the two major auto parts suppliers list them as freeze plugs. I fully agree that they are core plugs as I've done quite a bit of research in building a backyard foundry to do some casting work with. Never had time to follow through with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 So two years after this thread has been dead, I bring it back to life. Why? I learned something!!!! It is amazing how long wrong lingo and thought process can carry on! I am building my first motor and have been trying to learn as much as I can...my local machine shop even calls it Freeze Out Plugs! Thanks Paul for the heads up! This was a great thread to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted June 10, 2009 Administrators Share Posted June 10, 2009 ....Thanks Paul for the heads up! This was a great thread to read. Clive, Glad you enjoyed the read and I probably should update this portion to also include some Machine Shops as well as the parts stores... Funny part is the machine shop should already know this, second only to the foundry/casting industry... (Probably explains some of our other discussions?... ) .... It has been brought up that in the parts catalogs at certain parts stores, AND apparently some machine shops, that these plugs are listed as freeze plugs. Well, I feel it is truly one of two reasons. Which one do you subscribe to?... 1) They are anticipating the freeze plug industries big break through in making them 100% functionally reliable?… 2) It has to do with whole myth in the first place. (as covered in depth much earlier in this thread). The term “freeze plug” picked up momentum amongst the shade tree and not so mechanically inclined public, and the guys you find behind the parts counter fall into that same category, (if they were more mechanically inclined, you would find them on the other end of a wrench instead of selling freeze plugs). Being as this improper term is still being thrown around as educated fact, (evidenced by the mere presence of this thread), and the not so mechanically inclined general public still “says” freeze plug, the catalog publishers knowing full well the correct terminology, still print it in the format that parts guys like John Q. Public can easily look up, to sell across the counter?… A BRAAP satire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Freeze plugs are there so that when you are finished with the engine block, you pull the plugs out, and the block becomes a tweety bird condo...and keeps the little birds from freezing in the Winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I dunno how many birds you can smush into the confines of a cylinder wall and an exterior wall of an engine block, and I'm not sure how many pieces or how fine of a texture that blend might have to be... but that sure sounds like a cool bird house! "yeeeeeeeeeeep... i used to live in a 454... the pool left in the pistons during BDC season was HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrariferg Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I love when I learn something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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