why not a honda

[iceman2k6]

i like the honda engine that is in the s-2000. it is only for cyl. and akes 215 hp stock. plus it has the v-tech setup. i t seems like a good idea to me.

 

ICEMAN

[veritech-z]

You can also get a transmission made by gforce that allows you to run a B-series honda powerplant (Integra, some civic models) in RWD configuration.

[tfreer85]

Its not a bad idea, the motor is a good. I think the biggest reason that you don't see many of them swapped or ever seen one swapped is the motor is relatively expensive in comparison to more popularly swapped and more powerful (in stockish form). I still think it would be cool to see an FJ20 honda 4cyl in a 240z, so if you can afford it go for it!

 

Tyson

[phiz]

i like the honda engine ..... it has the v-tech setup. i t seems like a good idea to me.

 

ICEMAN

[MY77Z]

IMO, i've been around hondas for the last 5 years maybe, having a buddy with 3 hondas, outlaw civic that runs mid 9s and the other civic runs high 10s, the third is a supercharged S2000, if i go Honda engine, i'll do a H22/turbo engine they are relativly cheap, you can find parts very easily and 400HP is not a big number to achieve. but i'm not sure if they do make a kit that allows them to be in RWD configuration.

[gjc5500]

Yea 400hp out of a honda is easy to get. the only problem is that its harder to build tourque out of them. theres a honda here in town thats in the low 10s that a high school kid built

[Mr.INSANE]

Funny Thing the B Series are known to have exploding heads upwards of 400hp

 

If not built right ofcourse those motors cant take detonation too well

[JDMFairladyZX]

i like the honda engine that is in the s-2000. it is only for cyl. and akes 215 hp stock. plus it has the v-tech setup. i t seems like a good idea to me.

 

ICEMAN

 

Its Vtec not V-tech, thats the phone

 

It makes around 240 to the crank. A very good motor, there are two versions the one in the earlier AP1s is a 2.0 with a 9k redline while the latter AP2 have the 2.2 version with a 8k redline, both have about the same HP but the F22 has a bit more torque I think.

[Gollum]

There's many good reasons why it hasn't really been done (regarding general honda swaps)

 

1. They're overpricesd because of the ricer crowd creating such a demand

 

2. Most are designed for FWD and the few RWD models are either old or expensive (S2k variants) and to do a RWD conversion is time consuming and expensive.

 

3. There are many cheaper motors with more potential. Hondas have open decks and tend to be pretty fragile in the higher HP figures.

 

4. Then there's the overall disgust of the name. Honda is the chevy of the import world. You either love or hate them, not many in between. And good luck getting ANY american car fan to appreciate a honda motor in a Z. But if you said "yea I've got a 2.4 liter toyota from a truck with a huge turbo" they might actually give you a nod of approval.

 

Honda's have a lot of cons, and not many pros. Here's what I consider to be the biggest pros to a honda swap:

 

1. They're super easy to work on and get parts for.

 

2. Due to their all aluminium and open deck design they tend to be very very light motors.

 

 

I think another motor worth looking at if you're looking at the F20C is the Ecotec series from GM. You can get them designed for force induction with stout bottom ends, with a RWD tranny, in a small and light package (even for a 4 banger).

 

But trust me when I say, I'm not biased against hondas. The first car I ever really worked on was a 10 sec del sol and one of my best friends is a huge honda guy so I've hand my hands on quite a few.

[Lunar240z]

But trust me when I say, I'm not biased against hondas. The first car I ever really worked on was a 10 sec del sol and one of my best friends is a huge honda guy so I've hand my hands on quite a few.

 

then why is the honda bridesmaid last in your sig, then?

[Guest TeamNissan]

I agree 100% with gollum.

 

Also the 1st thing I would do is install vtec illimination cams. Because I hate having to wait untill like 6500 to get any decent power... I see vtec as more a bad thing then good.

[Gollum]

then why is the honda bridesmaid last in your sig, then?

 

Because for of all the fun swaps I can think of honda would be last on the list

 

And team nissan brings up a good point. Most road racers eliminate Vtec. Vtec is more about economy, don't let the honda ads about low end torque fool you.

[veritech-z]

Honda's have low end torque, that was pretty funny...

[Guest TeamNissan]

You know my gf blew the trans on her 96 prelude and the car just sits there staring at me with those big puppy dog eyes, please jason, please...... They are realy fun motors, the prelude is a blast with the vtec controler. Very revy and in a light car I think thier low tq numbers would not be as important. In the end though what are we talking about, I4 honda motor? Na free or not as far as I'm concerned there it will sit.

[Guest Ronin Z]

Besides the reasons already listed, I would think that the F20C (or F22C) is not particularly well suited to the dynamics of the S30 chassis, or any other Z chassis for that matter.

 

Being a relatively high strung engine with a narrow power band, the F20C power plant is more at home in a momentum style racer, such as a Mazda MX-5 Miata, AE86 Toyota Corolla (Trueno/Levin), or something more dedicated like a Caterham Seven.

 

The Z being more of GT/Sports Car begs for an engine with a little more flexibility (ie low and mid range torque).

 

 

Also the 1st thing I would do is install vtec illimination cams. Because I hate having to wait untill like 6500 to get any decent power... I see vtec as more a bad thing then good.

 

Can't say I can agree with this statement. The VTEC lobes sport a pretty beefy duration and lift for an OEM cam. The same profile ran straight (without the benefit of the low RPM lobes) produces a lumpy idle and poor low RPM driveability. The low torque numbers typically witnessed on Honda's performance engines, is more a product of head design, than cam profile. Outside of concerns over emissions and fuel economy concerns, Honda heads are highly optimized for high RPM throughput. This, of course, comes at the penalty low end grunt.

 

Regards,

Ronin Z

[Guest 302 ZED]

If you want to go 4 cylinder (for packaging I guess) then maybe a Nissan SR20 Turbo out of an Aussie/Euro/JDM S14/S15 200SX/Silvia would be a better bet. Built for turbo, easier to get power out of.

I’ve ridden in S2000’s around tracks and own a DC2 ITR. Great cars that come in to their own on a circuit but aren’t knockouts in a straight line if left stock (and N/A). If you want to muck around with a conversion you’d want to get a substantial gain at the end of the process.

I love my little Honda CRX’s and ITR’s, I’ve beaten some of the bigger and theoretically better V8/turbo cars on local circuits but no way known would I seriously consider using their engines for a Hybrid Z. Especially when other powerplants stand to offer more gains and are cheaper.

[Gollum]

You know my gf blew the trans on her 96 prelude and the car just sits there staring at me with those big puppy dog eyes, please jason, please...... They are realy fun motors, the prelude is a blast with the vtec controler. Very revy and in a light car I think thier low tq numbers would not be as important. In the end though what are we talking about, I4 honda motor? Na free or not as far as I'm concerned there it will sit.

 

Lets not forget about the gearing either. Many of the stock B16 trannys have a final drive ratio of 4.44..... Put that motor in ANY car with something less than 3.9 and it's going to dog and not rev happily.

 

It's important to gear a car according to how large your power band is and how much torque you have. Small little NA motors aren't fun with low gearing, and broad power V8s aren't fun when you spend all your time shifting.

 

And the honda having torque comment, yea I thought it was funny too

 

The main reason racers eliminate the Vtec is because it's one more thing to fail and it's not needed. You can deal with the rough idle and low speed diveability well enough. Muscle guys run loppy cams all the time and cope just fine. They have to deal with getting a motor rev'ed and putting to much power down to control, 4 cylinder guys just have to deal with getting the revs high enough before feathering the clutch (i've driven 400+hp turbo hondas, they're are DOGS bellow 3k)

[Guest TeamNissan]

I was going to type that same arguement but didnt have the motivation lol thnx gollum.

[Guest Ronin Z]

The main reason racers eliminate the Vtec is because it's one more thing to fail and it's not needed. You can deal with the rough idle and low speed diveability well enough. Muscle guys run loppy cams all the time and cope just fine.

 

'Tis true. But don't forget that a big block with a lope is makeing just about as much torque off idle as the F20C will ever make. So yes a lopey idle is tolerable to that crowd.

 

-RZ

[chepito]

I think the torque problem was solved with the lsvtec & crvtec combos. But these motors need to be built right in order to get good power from them & be reliable.