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iceman2k6

why not a honda

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Its not a bad idea, the motor is a good. I think the biggest reason that you don't see many of them swapped or ever seen one swapped is the motor is relatively expensive in comparison to more popularly swapped and more powerful (in stockish form). I still think it would be cool to see an FJ20 honda 4cyl in a 240z, so if you can afford it go for it!

 

Tyson

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IMO, i've been around hondas for the last 5 years maybe, having a buddy with 3 hondas, outlaw civic that runs mid 9s and the other civic runs high 10s, the third is a supercharged S2000, if i go Honda engine, i'll do a H22/turbo engine they are relativly cheap, you can find parts very easily and 400HP is not a big number to achieve. but i'm not sure if they do make a kit that allows them to be in RWD configuration.

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i like the honda engine that is in the s-2000. it is only for cyl. and akes 215 hp stock. plus it has the v-tech setup. i t seems like a good idea to me.

 

ICEMAN

 

Its Vtec not V-tech, thats the phone

 

It makes around 240 to the crank. A very good motor, there are two versions the one in the earlier AP1s is a 2.0 with a 9k redline while the latter AP2 have the 2.2 version with a 8k redline, both have about the same HP but the F22 has a bit more torque I think.

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There's many good reasons why it hasn't really been done (regarding general honda swaps)

 

1. They're overpricesd because of the ricer crowd creating such a demand

 

2. Most are designed for FWD and the few RWD models are either old or expensive (S2k variants) and to do a RWD conversion is time consuming and expensive.

 

3. There are many cheaper motors with more potential. Hondas have open decks and tend to be pretty fragile in the higher HP figures.

 

4. Then there's the overall disgust of the name. Honda is the chevy of the import world. You either love or hate them, not many in between. And good luck getting ANY american car fan to appreciate a honda motor in a Z. But if you said "yea I've got a 2.4 liter toyota from a truck with a huge turbo" they might actually give you a nod of approval.

 

Honda's have a lot of cons, and not many pros. Here's what I consider to be the biggest pros to a honda swap:

 

1. They're super easy to work on and get parts for.

 

2. Due to their all aluminium and open deck design they tend to be very very light motors.

 

 

I think another motor worth looking at if you're looking at the F20C is the Ecotec series from GM. You can get them designed for force induction with stout bottom ends, with a RWD tranny, in a small and light package (even for a 4 banger).

 

But trust me when I say, I'm not biased against hondas. The first car I ever really worked on was a 10 sec del sol and one of my best friends is a huge honda guy so I've hand my hands on quite a few.

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But trust me when I say, I'm not biased against hondas. The first car I ever really worked on was a 10 sec del sol and one of my best friends is a huge honda guy so I've hand my hands on quite a few.

 

then why is the honda bridesmaid last in your sig, then? :P

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Guest TeamNissan

I agree 100% with gollum.

 

Also the 1st thing I would do is install vtec illimination cams. Because I hate having to wait untill like 6500 to get any decent power... I see vtec as more a bad thing then good.

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then why is the honda bridesmaid last in your sig, then? :P

 

Because for of all the fun swaps I can think of honda would be last on the list ;)

 

And team nissan brings up a good point. Most road racers eliminate Vtec. Vtec is more about economy, don't let the honda ads about low end torque fool you.

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Guest TeamNissan

You know my gf blew the trans on her 96 prelude and the car just sits there staring at me with those big puppy dog eyes, please jason, please...... They are realy fun motors, the prelude is a blast with the vtec controler. Very revy and in a light car I think thier low tq numbers would not be as important. In the end though what are we talking about, I4 honda motor? Na free or not as far as I'm concerned there it will sit.

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Guest Ronin Z

Besides the reasons already listed, I would think that the F20C (or F22C) is not particularly well suited to the dynamics of the S30 chassis, or any other Z chassis for that matter.

 

Being a relatively high strung engine with a narrow power band, the F20C power plant is more at home in a momentum style racer, such as a Mazda MX-5 Miata, AE86 Toyota Corolla (Trueno/Levin), or something more dedicated like a Caterham Seven.

 

The Z being more of GT/Sports Car begs for an engine with a little more flexibility (ie low and mid range torque).

 

 

Also the 1st thing I would do is install vtec illimination cams. Because I hate having to wait untill like 6500 to get any decent power... I see vtec as more a bad thing then good.

 

Can't say I can agree with this statement. The VTEC lobes sport a pretty beefy duration and lift for an OEM cam. The same profile ran straight (without the benefit of the low RPM lobes) produces a lumpy idle and poor low RPM driveability. The low torque numbers typically witnessed on Honda's performance engines, is more a product of head design, than cam profile. Outside of concerns over emissions and fuel economy concerns, Honda heads are highly optimized for high RPM throughput. This, of course, comes at the penalty low end grunt.

 

Regards,

Ronin Z

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Guest 302 ZED

If you want to go 4 cylinder (for packaging I guess) then maybe a Nissan SR20 Turbo out of an Aussie/Euro/JDM S14/S15 200SX/Silvia would be a better bet. Built for turbo, easier to get power out of.

I’ve ridden in S2000’s around tracks and own a DC2 ITR. Great cars that come in to their own on a circuit but aren’t knockouts in a straight line if left stock (and N/A). If you want to muck around with a conversion you’d want to get a substantial gain at the end of the process.

I love my little Honda CRX’s and ITR’s, I’ve beaten some of the bigger and theoretically better V8/turbo cars on local circuits but no way known would I seriously consider using their engines for a Hybrid Z. Especially when other powerplants stand to offer more gains and are cheaper.

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You know my gf blew the trans on her 96 prelude and the car just sits there staring at me with those big puppy dog eyes, please jason, please...... They are realy fun motors, the prelude is a blast with the vtec controler. Very revy and in a light car I think thier low tq numbers would not be as important. In the end though what are we talking about, I4 honda motor? Na free or not as far as I'm concerned there it will sit.

 

Lets not forget about the gearing either. Many of the stock B16 trannys have a final drive ratio of 4.44..... Put that motor in ANY car with something less than 3.9 and it's going to dog and not rev happily.

 

It's important to gear a car according to how large your power band is and how much torque you have. Small little NA motors aren't fun with low gearing, and broad power V8s aren't fun when you spend all your time shifting.

 

And the honda having torque comment, yea I thought it was funny too :D

 

The main reason racers eliminate the Vtec is because it's one more thing to fail and it's not needed. You can deal with the rough idle and low speed diveability well enough. Muscle guys run loppy cams all the time and cope just fine. They have to deal with getting a motor rev'ed and putting to much power down to control, 4 cylinder guys just have to deal with getting the revs high enough before feathering the clutch (i've driven 400+hp turbo hondas, they're are DOGS bellow 3k)

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Guest TeamNissan

I was going to type that same arguement but didnt have the motivation lol thnx gollum.

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Guest Ronin Z

The main reason racers eliminate the Vtec is because it's one more thing to fail and it's not needed. You can deal with the rough idle and low speed diveability well enough. Muscle guys run loppy cams all the time and cope just fine.

 

'Tis true. But don't forget that a big block with a lope is makeing just about as much torque off idle as the F20C will ever make. So yes a lopey idle is tolerable to that crowd.

 

-RZ

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NOt to mention I always want to drive above 7k all day just to get some power out of it. TO get the most out of it you gotta rev the ♥♥♥♥ out of it and yeah it's fun at first but gets a tiring after awhile. SR or maybe a 4G63 with one of their bell housings to be able to use a toyota W-series transmissions. Then you just have to have your intake manifold modified to have the throttle body on the other side. 4G63's are like the Chuck Norris of 4 cylinders. It's just the drivetrain that's the achillies heel to DSM's. The 6 bolt engines are beefy as they come.

http://www.japaneseauto.com/mitstoyotatransadaptors.html

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Well, that's why you get an early type r tranny :D

 

Never go bellow 4k, even on the freeway in 5th. But you're right. After the novelty of rev count wears off you come to the realization "I want more". And as with MOST high rev motors, more HP isn't easy since it was engineered to a very high tolerance tuned very specifically. Turbo motors are great because they're designed with brutal industrial strength first and foremost to withstand boost pressures.

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Don't get me wrong either...the F20/F22C is a great engine but in a S30..just don't think it's the greatest engine for it as the best bang for the buck. I don't think I've ever heard of the engine running on anything else beside AEM EMS which is a pretty big chunk of change. Not to mention the engine is still pretty pricey since it's still relatively new. I just got a reply back from the maker of the bellhousing and it's really cheap at just 275. Just Toyota stuff for the tranny and then a mitsu FWD flywheel and pressure plate. I think I know what's going in next and time to start piecing stuff together. Thank god 4G's are cheap even for a turbo longblock. Even 2.4 stroker setups are available for them..be it a 4G64 oem type setup or a company like Crower setup.

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Its not a bad idea, the motor is a good. I think the biggest reason that you don't see many of them swapped or ever seen one swapped is the motor is relatively expensive in comparison to more popularly swapped and more powerful (in stockish form). I still think it would be cool to see an FJ20 honda 4cyl in a 240z, so if you can afford it go for it!

 

Tyson

 

:icon52:the fj20 is a nissan motor.....that hurt!

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