frank280zx Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 ll post some more pics with a real cam, but tonight it was finished and HAD to share (welding and some paint) I got some detail pics from a fellow hybrid z guy that helped allot. though not a whole lot was directly copied it makes me confident it will work and that helps when mocking it up Now all i need it finish my m3 ITB's and feed the supercharger with my turbo. I figured i can run a pipe over the valve cover from the turbo to the SC with no clearance issues to the hood from trail fits.. compound charging here i come ! UPDATED PICS Thanks for the compliments some better pics of todays progress The engine is a mock up block btw the mount looks randomly supported, and in a way it is .. but that is because i need to keep my plugs accessible, and this way i can remove them all with the charger mounted and the beast awaiting it now wait for the pulleys to arrive in the container from my last CA trip to mock up some belts etc .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e_racer1999 Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 good lawd! watch what ZXs you're pickin on when in the netherlands, people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Man, that is just too cool! I hope you don't blow it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Looks great! So its turbo and supercharged? Is it ran like new VW where at low RPM's the supercharger feeds the engine then the turbo kicks in at higher RPM's? OR do both feed it simotaneosly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravRMK Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Very cool indeed! I am also curious as to how you will plum it all together. Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Awesome!!! What size s/c? Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO-Z Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Do you have any pics of the mounting bracket before you mounted the supercharger? I am planning on mounting mine where the AC compressor was, but would like other ideas. I have a concern on finding a serpentine belt short enough for my proposed location. Keep us informed on your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CArFAn Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 that is going to be a beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 I will run it like the old lancia delta s4 group B rally car. the turbo will feed the sc, the sc will go trough an intercooler into the plenum. At higher RPM or better pressure it will open the bypass. (like the VW TSI) I might ad a smaller water to air IC between the turbo and the SC, apart from that i hope my turbo will flow enough to keep up with the SC. if not i need to buy a bigger one. That is my only concern sofar as it is only 40 MM in diameter. So all from the turbo has to go trough it, it could act like a restrict or tube they use on LM cars and such. So a beast i don't know.. just want to see if it will work. Im interested in a flat power curve, and theoretically this should be a way to realize that. I also asked ISKY to grind a special cam for this set up, that hopefully will help out allot. Well lets mock it up, drive it and find out i guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 updated with new pics front view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 wow oh wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 So what would guys think, cool the turbo stage down with a water cooler or just forget about that stage for now? it seems small enough to fit over the valve cover ( between the turbo side and the sc side) and clear the hood.. + i have a 4' cowl sitting for the case it would not fit. I would just need a 90 degree connection on one side and two 45 elbows on the other . I wonder if one IC, placed between the SC and the Turbo would cool it back enough. I don't want methanol ( jet) as you can run out of it fairly easily. so that would be more a drag race solution , not road race/track/autpx what my car will be leaning to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 check out www.lindseyracing.com Their intercooler would be perfect for your application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO-Z Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Wouldn’t it be better to use an air cooled intercooler? When you are not in boost your air into the compressor will be over 180 °F or 82 °C using the average engine temperature. With the all of the air going trough the turbo I would guess that is would be over 212 °F of 100 °C, not including the heat of compression of the turbo. There is also pressure loss across the intercooler of that size. I think it would be better to use an air cooled intercooler, especially with the air temps where you live. I have thought of a design like yours after someone else brought it up. I think a parallel system would work better. The compressor would run until a set RPM where the turbo pressure is the same as the supercharger. Using something like a rev limiter to trigger the valve between the 2 systems. A Mercedes SLK supercharger with its electric clutch would work neat on this set up. You would have to do a pressure / RPM graph of the 2 systems to figure the break point The turbo would need discharge its pressure until the trigger point to eliminate exhaust back pressure. A check valve would take care of the supercharger when the turbo is running. It is fun to think of all of the options on a system like you are building. Have fun and do it Safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted July 1, 2007 Author Share Posted July 1, 2007 Olderthanme Thanks http://www.lindseyracing.com will be a good solution ! and i might just buy one in the next year. SHO-Z i think i have to clarify the placement of the water intercooler better. It would go between the turbo and the SC So TURBO > WATER INTERCOOLER > SUPERCHARGER >INTERCOOLER ( bar and plate) INLET PLENUM My supercharger has a bypass flapper, and that is exactly what it will do, minus the electric clutch for now ( maybe in the future) At pressure X the bypass opens and the turbo will blow by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 So how are you going to route the tubing from the turbo to the S/C? I doubt there is room under the hood to go over the valve cover. how about going into the cowl and putting the air/water IC in there? You can make nice big gradual bends and send a pipe straight into the back of your supercharger. That would be a cleaner solution. Just be sure to use some big flex joints when going into the body unless you are going to solid mount the engine. How much power are you looking to get? 300hp, 400hp, 500hp? or more!? I love watching the Lancia Delta S4 videos on youtube. Just insane sounding!!! You are going to need an awesome bypass valve setup since the S/C is always going to be boosting under full decel! I am watching this build VERY closely. Good luck!! Also is that a bolt going into the head for the S/C mount? you may want to put a stud in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted July 1, 2007 Author Share Posted July 1, 2007 OTM, there is plenty of room between the Valve cover and the hood near the latch on a s130 so that wont be a problem, but i have a composite 4" cowl for my car as well so no problems there. Im not necessarily looking for power goal .. im looking to have an as flat power curve as possible .. and well it just has to work that is my goal.. the power will come later by tuning and tweaking. lets first see if it works worry about power later ( it is more a see if it can be done thing, and if i can pull it off more than anything) And i have bolted the SC on one of the engine hoist points aswel on the real engine ill use studs only.. makes it easier to work on IMHO BTW the sound of the s4's is mostly generated by straight cut gears .. and well not just yet in my car Thanks for thinking along ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Generally, Water to Air I/C's in gasoline engines will use a surge tank and dedicated water cooler, not the engine coolant. In this manner, the water acts like a heat sink for on-off-on boost situations. The thermal mass of the water soaks up the heat, and the water constantly circulates giving heat off to the air inbetween boost excursions. Bosch makes a nice pump (P/N 0 392 022 002) that works EXCELLENT in Water-to-Air exchanger to exchanger water transfer. You can pick it up at most Ford Dealers stateside as well as Ford P/N M-8501-L54. I figure with Frank being in Europe, he will probably be able to order Bosch Parts by their P/N easier than a Ford P/N. Pump uses standard AMP Timer connection (Bosch Standard EFI Fuel Injector Connector). Body Parts ready, and Nino will be home next weekend, so I will have assistance loading the aforementioned parts into the container for shipping to Rotterdam... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted July 1, 2007 Author Share Posted July 1, 2007 yep they are used with enclosed water circuits.. Ill first mock it up with the small bypass, and one big IC (OTM gave an idea using Y pipes and a TB to act as a bypass). however ill see what it does first, i can always widen up the SC bypass when it doesn't work! and ad another IC Thanks loading etc tony ! remember to send some dates for 6 hours of SPA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardkid280z Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Looking great Frank, good luck on everything! It looks like you're getting it mostly figured out. My T/SC project has slowed down a bit, but now that we're moved, and I got rid of my little VW Bug-gy project I had taking up garage space, maybe I can focus on my Z again. Of course, changing the radiator, needing new brake rotors, and busting a half-shaft U-joint don't help much in the progress/finance department . Now I am definitely going to have to look you up next time I am in Belgium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.