Accurate Injection Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Hahahaha! Unfortuately for you and I no! This is brand new testing from our Elctronincs Partner which equates to close to 15 years of refinement on the Electronics Software and hardware! Holler at me thru oour regular email lets chat about the future! Tried it on some spare/scrap stuff for some testing, it works good, beats chunking parts when they can be used for testing purposes! Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I ordered a decent microphone from amazon so I should have some in-car video's to post soon. I shot a few already but the built in microphone just doesn't cut it. Find some highly breathable foam or even an old air filter to sit around the microphone, or make a small box with an inch or less of air gap. ITB's have a tendancy to add latency to the microphone once the first BLAP hits the mic, causing it to max out in it's deflection, and it tries hard to keep up. Then you're stuck with crackly audio that would make me feel sad and others would be outraged that you gyped us from hearing heavenly chords from the Datsun Symphony Orchestra. Don't spoil the show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 I just posted this in the non tech forum http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=1021132#post1021132 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volodkovich Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Awesome work Derek. Really, really cool. Have a few questions, i hope you can answer them for me. How hard is the CAD-CAM part of the pattern making? I would love to make parts like this, and am reasonably proficient at Solidworks/Inventor, although i have never played around with CAM packages. As i understand it, it is not as easy as just sending the model to the CAM package, and then to the CNC mill? I see you are using 1.495" diameter butterflies. Is there any possibility of putting larger butterflies in for a bit more of a worked-over L series? Say, 1.69-1.77"? I would be very interested in buying a set of non finished castings off you if you ever decide to sell some. I like the performance, sound and style of triple Mikuni setups, however i don't like the tuneabilty, economy and hassle of them. I really like the overall package of your setup. I was considering making some custom ITB's, but went against it as i felt it wouldn't suit the style of the car. I feel yours fit the car perfectly. Robbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 For even a warmed over Z engine, the 1.65 size is capable of supporting full engine power well into the 7500+ rpm range. In our testing 1.75" ITBs were worth about 17Hp at 7500 rpms over 1.42", and around 40HP at 8200 rpms over the 1.42" ITBs... Unless you are planning on going that high, 1.42 ITBs flow a healthy figure. 1.75's gave us a bump, but up so high would you really need it? The added tuning complexity inherent in the larger throttle bodies dictate a pretty advanced ECU incorporating Alpha-N/MAP blend for fuel economy and drivability. The 1.495" bodies are very well suited for an all around Z-Engine (normally aspirated) up to the 300HP to the rear wheels range. Turbocharged...WOAH NELLY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 Yea what Tony said! I'm not really sure how I came up with that 1.495 number but it was probably a material issue. I had to bore the stainless pipe I was using and I had to take it to 1.495 to get it clean. the manifold then tapers down to the stock port size. I think it's 34mm. In My opinion the CAM pogram I use is no more difficult than Solidworks. And CNC machining is much simpler than traditional machining. As far as selling manifolds I still don't know what direction I'm going with these. The egomaniac in me would love to have people driving their cars with these manifolds but the businessman in me say's STOP. The patterns would need to be reworked and the core boxes are total sh!t so I would have to re do those. I'm not a "your on your own" kind of guy so I would feel responsible for helping people achieve success with their manifolds. And that can be costly. Derek Awesome work Derek. Really, really cool. Have a few questions, i hope you can answer them for me. How hard is the CAD-CAM part of the pattern making? I would love to make parts like this, and am reasonably proficient at Solidworks/Inventor, although i have never played around with CAM packages. As i understand it, it is not as easy as just sending the model to the CAM package, and then to the CNC mill? I see you are using 1.495" diameter butterflies. Is there any possibility of putting larger butterflies in for a bit more of a worked-over L series? Say, 1.69-1.77"? I would be very interested in buying a set of non finished castings off you if you ever decide to sell some. I like the performance, sound and style of triple Mikuni setups, however i don't like the tuneabilty, economy and hassle of them. I really like the overall package of your setup. I was considering making some custom ITB's, but went against it as i felt it wouldn't suit the style of the car. I feel yours fit the car perfectly. Robbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volodkovich Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Cool, thanks for the answers. Well, i guess i really wouldn't need the larger sized throttles, but if i were going to spend the money on such a setup i'd like it to go on a decent motor that was making power to 8-8.5k rpm or so. Surprised you think they will support up to 300 rwhp. From my limited experience on ITBs on 4 cylinders, 43mm throttles on a 4cylinder should be good for a little over 200hp. I havent really played with high HP L series yet (only have a near standard L20e in my JDM FairladyZ), but no doubt you know what you are talking about. Thats cool Derek, just putting it out there i would be very willing to pay some decent money for castings - i'm sure others would too. I'm sure with the interest you have received you could make them for profit as part of your business. You'd have to cast your logo into them though! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accurate Injection Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Hey Tony: Hopefully Extrudabody will be changing this "pretty advanced ECU incorporating Alpha-N/MAP blend for fuel economy and drivability" very soon! We have a 4 cylinder ITB Set-up running now on Extrudabody Electronics where there's no Alpha-N or MAP Blend and produces 30kpa at Idle. It does require a 60-2 or 30-1 Crank Sensor set-up though! It's also Sequential injection without a CAM sensor, and has a OBD2 Plug that works with most OBD2 Scan Tools! Derek: To quote a famous line in a Movie "If you build it, they will come" You have a product no one can compete with, you are in that Proverbal Ball Park all by yourself! Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 Derek: To quote a famous line in a Movie "If you build it, they will come" You have a product no one can compete with, you are in that Proverbal Ball Park all by yourself! Kevin You just want me to bring this to market because the price for your setup will seem like the "bargain of the century" compared to what I'll have to charge:) Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accurate Injection Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Hahaha! Well not quite true, but my motives were not all innocent. One from an encouragement point of view as my Mentor "Bob Ream" in this business once said "There's enough room for all of us" you will find Extrudabody reselling his Billet V8 manifolds on our website and he has some nice Throttle Bodies of his own! Now the Selfish part, I was hoping you would need some Kick A$$ Electronics in the near future! Build your Parts Derek, in time it will pay for the tooling, and you never know what door will open next! I finally sold to a Dealer I had prospected 12 years ago! Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 Well right now I'm doing patterns for 2 old Lincoln tri power intake manifolds, A decorative storm grate, The fascia on a building restoration in Washington DC and I just bid on redoing a bunch of castings at Disney. Phew! Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accurate Injection Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 I hear ya buddy! "He who hath the gidas, gets did first" Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Sounds like business is good. Do you make castings from photo-overlay, or impressions? I imagine doing stuff for Disney could be lucrative, tho I hear they're slow to pay, at least the movie side of things. So how many sets do you think you'd need to sell to make it worth your while? You were thinking like $2k for a set right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 Sounds like business is good. Do you make castings from photo-overlay, or impressions? I imagine doing stuff for Disney could be lucrative, tho I hear they're slow to pay, at least the movie side of things. The stuff I bid on for Disney is reproducing a bunch of existing castings. They'll supply me with an original and I'll scan it with my 3D laser scanner. Then I'll derive a pattern from that scan. So how many sets do you think you'd need to sell to make it worth your while? You were thinking like $2k for a set right?Have you been reading my notes? At this point that's the range for the manifolds machined with throttle shafts and butterflies. Everything else will be À la carte. It will have to be an exceptional circumstance for me to sell a raw casting. I'm waiting for the economy to improve and then I'll make some decisions as to my long term goals with this thing. I'm lucky to have steady work right now and I'm not too inclined to take any big risks at the moment. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Okay gang, so my brother, our Dad and I got a chance to meet Derek and see his car earlier this evening. First off, his car is a beautiful red 73 240 that he has owned since 1980 and he has made it into his ideal Grand Touring car; Not a racecar but a comfy street machine, and its just gorgeous. It isn't mint or anything like that, but the right details are clean and crisp and its just an ideal Z. Fullblown racecars, turbo swaps are great, but we really don't see enough S30 Zcars that are just cars down here, unless they're junkers. (Like MY car was, when it was still registered!) Second off, regarding the Manifold... Music. Symphony in the key of Z. Valvetrain harmony combined with intake charge melody, with the injectors on the skins keepin' time. The Allodyne finish (or however it is spelled) REALLY looks just like it does in the photos. In the end its not that far from a cast magnesium look on the valve cover and the manifold. The butterfly linkages are the neatest part.. the six air horns are all on different angles from the block, in all three planes, so each connection from one butterfly to the next is just a little bit different. As a result, when they all move back and forth, instead of forming parts of two parallel lines, each individual piece of hex rod moves in it's own little pathway that is INCREDIBLY hard to describe. The effect is very subtle.. VERY subtle but it looks almost... organic. and that about says it all!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Okay gang, so my brother, our Dad and I got a chance to meet Derek and see his car earlier this evening. Thats awesome, It would be very cool to meet Derek, and especially get to see his shop. The few picts of the CNC were cool, but he mentioned a 3d laser scanner and such, really sounds cool. Second off, regarding the Manifold... Music. Symphony in the key of Z. Valvetrain harmony combined with intake charge melody, with the injectors on the skins keepin' time ... and that about says it all!! Yeah, I guess the picts and the video don't do it justice. it's very cool. I hope things go well enough that Derek will go into production, I don't blame him for waiting, it's not quick or cheap to produce them, not to mention what he'd be out if one of the castings went badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Well I made it back safe and sound! It was great too finally meet you guys face to face as well. Your pop seems to have quite the Z history. That poor deer. I put about 500 miles on it and it ran flawlessly. I wish all of my projects worked this well. I ran the car at about 75 or so the whole way down and back, using cruise control of course, and it was very comfortable. At this point I no longer worry about the EDIS or megasquirt letting me down. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Great to hear it worked well and most importantly you went to visit some Z friends. that's what it's all aboooot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 WOW I just re read most of it AMAZING good job Derek well deserved. I too am having issues with ms just tuning at this point. The edis parts you made were amazing. Did you ever get that rich condition sorted out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan1242 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 hey man, im new to the site and just looked at all the pictures, and they are very very very sweet. that is probably one of the coolest custom intake jobs that i have ever seen.!! good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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