big-phil Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 video later, I'm at Chris's now. The dyno for sure don't lie. Big-phil's car 341.44whp 390.31 tourgue at 23.7lbs max boost Power was falling off hard after 4500 rpm I'll post video later. Had to make the pull in 4th bcause it hazed the tires in 3rd Chris's car 403.16whp 365.92 tourgue at 17lbs max boost up to 7100rpm pull in 4th, spun 3rd also. I guess my BUTT dyno said I was making more because my torque is so high? Richard's TT 300z that I raced in on of my videos made 360whp he's not here so thats all I remember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Can I get a HELL YEAH!! Good Job BP!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJLamberson Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 not bad at all... Im jealous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Nice. I hope to get about 2/3s those numbers. looking forward to the vid. Tire haze in the video or ban! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-phil Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Nice. I hope to get about 2/3s those numbers. looking forward to the vid. Tire haze in the video or ban! Oh thre is haze in 3rd for sure. My torgue makes me feel good but was wanting more HP:mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted March 23, 2008 Administrators Share Posted March 23, 2008 Phil, you are running an OE EFI intake manifold right? Can you also give a rundown on the power plant Chris is running, including intake manifold, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Power was falling off hard after 4500 rpm I'll post video later. Had to make the pull in 4th bcause it hazed the tires in 3rd Phil, Once you figure out why the power fell off after 4500rpm you'll get to the 400RWHP. Either way it was a great pull. I'm curious why you would want to do a dyno pull in 3rd gear. The power curve is more realistic when the gears are 1:1. You also don't get nearly the traction problem in 4th as you probably learned. Did the dyno operator recommend it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-phil Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Phil, you are running an OE EFI intake manifold right? Can you also give a rundown on the power plant Chris is running, including intake manifold, etc? yes stock intake Chris has James Thagard make his manifold, lots of head work, valves, cam EVERYTHING!! Chris made 297.87 whp 256.61 torque AT 9 lbs of boost!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted March 23, 2008 Administrators Share Posted March 23, 2008 Phil, Swapping just “one part” and retuning should net an honest 50-75 more HP on the same dyno, and depending on that part, could be as much as 100-125 more HP, at the same boost levels, no other changes! INTAKE MANIFOLD!!! A “other than OE L-28 EFI” intake manifold and your HP will DRASTICALLY increase, even with your current cam and no head work!!!!! Those small diameter intake runners are fine for torque and don’t restrict torque production, but are choking the living daylights out of your potential HP! Yours and Chris Torque and HP numbers at those boost levels is the most PERFECT example of this! OE intake manifold runner cross-sectional area is only 53% the area of the stock intake valve itself! Head work will help just a little, but your HP restriction right now IS the intake manifold itself. Even if you go to the extreme of cutting up an OE intake and opening up the runners, that is where your HP will come from. If you design a new intake, if you keep similarly length runners, just larger diameter, your torque shouldn’t suffer to much if at all, but make tons more HP! Of course this will require extensive retuning, but I have lots of faith in your tuning abilities. After the intake swap, head work would be the icing on the cake, and I just happen to know a custom cylinder head massager… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-phil Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Phil,Swapping just “one part” and retuning should net an honest 50-75 more HP on the same dyno, and depending on that part, could be as much as 100-125 more HP, at the same boost levels, no other changes! INTAKE MANIFOLD!!! A “other than OE L-28 EFI” intake manifold and your HP will DRASTICALLY increase, even with your current cam and no head work!!!!! Those small diameter intake runners are fine for torque and don’t restrict torque production, but are choking the living daylights out of your potential HP! Yours and Chris Torque and HP numbers at those boost levels is the most PERFECT example of this! OE intake manifold runner cross-sectional area is only 53% the area of the stock intake valve itself! Head work will help just a little, but your HP restriction right now IS the intake manifold itself. Even if you go to the extreme of cutting up an OE intake and opening up the runners, that is where your HP will come from. If you design a new intake, if you keep similarly length runners, just larger diameter, your torque shouldn’t suffer to much if at all, but make tons more HP! Of course this will require extensive retuning, but I have lots of faith in your tuning abilities. After the intake swap, head work would be the icing on the cake, and I just happen to know a custom cylinder head massager… yes I need an intake, just don't know where to get one? I could get one like 280zforce from lonewolf. I have an extra P90 hint hint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Very nice Phil. Thanks Paul for the advice on the intake. Something to consider when I start my project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Not bad phil, not bad at all. I am sure there is power to gain.. Nice tq numbers man!! Chris's car seems like its doing awesome!!! cant wait to see the vids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 yes I need an intake, just don't know where to get one? I could get one like 280zforce from lonewolf. I have an extra P90 hint hint! dude, if you seriously cant find another intake mani. just shoot me a PM and i can get you one pretty dam cheap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 yes I need an intake, just don't know where to get one? I could get one like 280zforce from lonewolf. I have an extra P90 hint hint! Or have a friend design/build one for you...Hint Hint. 390 torque is really good! More important IMHO than HP. HP is just torque when related to RPMs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Phil,Swapping just “one part” and retuning should net an honest 50-75 more HP on the same dyno, and depending on that part, could be as much as 100-125 more HP, at the same boost levels, no other changes! INTAKE MANIFOLD!!! A “other than OE L-28 EFI” intake manifold and your HP will DRASTICALLY increase, even with your current cam and no head work!!!!! Those small diameter intake runners are fine for torque and don’t restrict torque production, but are choking the living daylights out of your potential HP! Yours and Chris Torque and HP numbers at those boost levels is the most PERFECT example of this! OE intake manifold runner cross-sectional area is only 53% the area of the stock intake valve itself! Head work will help just a little, but your HP restriction right now IS the intake manifold itself. Even if you go to the extreme of cutting up an OE intake and opening up the runners, that is where your HP will come from. If you design a new intake, if you keep similarly length runners, just larger diameter, your torque shouldn’t suffer to much if at all, but make tons more HP! Of course this will require extensive retuning, but I have lots of faith in your tuning abilities. After the intake swap, head work would be the icing on the cake, and I just happen to know a custom cylinder head massager… Paul, I agree that the intake is a place to start but I contend that cylinder head work should be done at the same time to net worthwhile benefit. I would love to have a Rusch Motorsports head and a Ron Tyler intake on my car!!!! That would give me huge gains. Without Meth and a near stock N42 intake and P90 head I'm at 455RWHP with crappy AFR's. I have more displacement but not 114hp worth. I think Phil can get to 400RWHP without an intake change. Assuming the turbo is up to the task, I'll bet the problem is in AFR's, ignition and/or possibly boost control at peak power. JeffP in another thread posted today seems to have a similar problem with spark dwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted March 23, 2008 Administrators Share Posted March 23, 2008 Paul, I agree that the intake is a place to start but I contend that cylinder head work should be done at the same time to net worthwhile benefit. I would love to have a Rusch Motorsports head and a Ron Tyler intake on my car!!!! That would give me huge gains. Without Meth and a near stock N42 intake and P90 head I'm at 455RWHP with crappy AFR's. I have more displacement but not 114hp worth. I think Phil can get to 400RWHP without an intake change. Assuming the turbo is up to the task, I'll bet the problem is in AFR's, ignition and/or possibly boost control at peak power. JeffP in another thread posted today seems to have a similar problem with spark dwell. John, Are your intake runners ported or as cast? For some reason I always thought your runners were extensively ported which helped boost your HP numbers a bit compared to your torque. At any rate, Phil, whatever John says works, you can take to the bank. Not only does he have the experience, but also the background and a mentor that is not afraid of the edges of any envelope, no mater how sharp those edges are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Phil, you are running 100% meth, correct? If so, have you pulled primary fueling as compensation? Everything I have read on Turbobuick.com, RX7club.com and Evolutionm.net states that you need to pull primary fueling to compensate for the lower stoich ratio of meth. I keep running across 10.8 to 11.0 as the ideal AFR when spraying 100% meth, assuming you are displacing 20% primary fuel with meth. Jeffp, Bernard, 510six, Scottie, et. al. would be better sources of info on this topic. Paul, I talked to Ron about a possible temporary "replacement" for the stock manifold and that was to setup a PWM controlled boost solenoid (like I and Hugh are running) that would allow you to increase boost past peak torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Phil, you are running 100% meth, correct? If so, have you pulled primary fueling as compensation? Everything I have read on Turbobuick.com, RX7club.com and Evolutionm.net states that you need to pull primary fueling to compensate for the lower stoich ratio of meth.. You are spot on - and as soon as I get back to TX on tuesday I'll pull out my documents and put the exact numbers up and how you can modify your fuel maps when you are running Meth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett76Zt Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Phil, you are running 100% meth, correct? If so, have you pulled primary fueling as compensation? Everything I have read on Turbobuick.com, RX7club.com and Evolutionm.net states that you need to pull primary fueling to compensate for the lower stoich ratio of meth. I keep running across 10.8 to 11.0 as the ideal AFR when spraying 100% meth, assuming you are displacing 20% primary fuel with meth. I SERIOUSLY doubt 20% of his total fuel is meth. You would probably have to be running twin nozzles to accomplish that. At any rate I'm pretty sure he has taken fuel out to compensate for the meth. Gotta say I expected more Phil . . . compression is good and everything? I remember putting down 274whp and over 300ft lbs with a stock turbo at 15psi, stock ECU, etc etc. With a holset at over 20psi you should be alot closer to 400whp. Something is definitely up . . . I just reread your thread about the cam you tried out . . . you sure the cam timing is all hunky dory? (yeah i just said hunky dory) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Garrett, with his Coolingmist setup you are probably correct. I am setting my system up for 20% fueling using a 700 cc/min injector. However, my calcs are showing 100% duty cycle at 20 psi before I hit 4000 rpm. I may need to go with a larger injector. I was just stating 20% replacement as that is a number thrown around by the Buick, RX7 and Evo crowds. Here is his log from the other thread: His AFRs are around 10.1 to 10.3ish. That is quite low and is costing him power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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