Anyone use a Corvette "transaxle" in their Z?

[tube80z]

... Or you could just buy a C-5 or C-6 and install a Z car steering wheel? And for a little more of that Z car feel, install a set of Z car seats?

 

Hmm, is that project Z0Z?

[BRAAP]

So Paul - How do you keep from breaking the half-shaft universals? I've twisted two of them now and I'm only running about 390HP - and that's through street tires. Think maybe the wheel hop has something to do with it?

 

Wheel hop and half shaft angularity are both bad. Wheel hop shock loads the drive-train which with any sort of power will break something regardless. You want little to NO U-joint angularity, and those stock half shafts with the stock Nissan U-joints will hold up.

JnJ, the guys with that car, used to run U-joint half shafts, broke a few, but were able to launch like that with them, but recently switched over to, I think it is the 300-ZX CV joints.

[RTz]

... Or you could just buy a C-5 or C-6 and install a Z car steering wheel?

 

 

Done...

 

[OlderThanMe]

Wheel hop and half shaft angularity are both bad. Wheel hop shock loads the drive-train which with any sort of power will break something regardless. You want little to NO U-joint angularity, and those stock half shafts with the stock Nissan U-joints will hold up.

JnJ, the guys with that car, used to run U-joint half shafts, broke a few, but were able to launch like that with them, but recently switched over to, I think it is the 300-ZX CV joints.

 

 

Indeed...

 

I would setup some sort of rig in the rear suspension to mark overall suspension travel or setup a camera with a light back there to look at half-shaft angles while you launch from a stand still.

Then tune your differential height(fabrication) or suspension height(easy) so that when you launch you are as close to no angle as possible.

 

 

But what would I know...

I'm just interooled turtle with a spoiler on my shell...(avatar) LOL

[Jerminator96]

Just for grins measure the center-to-center distance on the wheels on the C-5 transaxle you have and compare it to the same measurement on the Z. Then think about how much you'll have to narrow the 'vette system or widen the Z to accomodate it. That should be entertaining for a while.

 

The large area that sits in front of the tranny is going to be a problem. That looks like it's going to interfere with the seats. There's precious little room in that area of a Z as is. That's the one big item that may nix this mod.

 

Cary

 

2 very good points. I just got back from measuring a mock up and it doesn't look good. I really should have taken some pictures.

 

The biggest problem is definitely with the trans interfering with the seats, unless I lose about 100lbs (and I'm already 180lbs).

 

I personally feel that changing out the rear suspension...

 

Hmmm, you make a compelling argument. Of course now that I can't do the corvette rear I don't really have any desire to make something just to be "different." So a stock R200 can really handle that kind of power?

 

For the record, being an engineer is like a disease. We come up with hair-brained ideas and then spend many sleepless nights trying to figure out how to make it possible. I rarely stop to consider whether it's "necessary," that's why we have bean-counters at work to keep us within budget.

[G.I.jonas]

Done...

 

 

 

Damn,not even that can alleviate the disco revival, hideous 80's, abomination look of the vette interior.

[RTz]

Damn,not even that can alleviate the disco revival, hideous 80's, abomination look of the vette interior.

 

[rudypoochris]

Hmmm, you make a compelling argument. Of course now that I can't do the corvette rear I don't really have any desire to make something just to be "different." So a stock R200 can really handle that kind of power?

 

For the record, being an engineer is like a disease. We come up with hair-brained ideas and then spend many sleepless nights trying to figure out how to make it possible. I rarely stop to consider whether it's "necessary," that's why we have bean-counters at work to keep us within budget.

 

From what I have read and researched your going to want an LSD center for the R200 but otherwise, it should be able to handle quite some abuse. The stub axles will most likely give out before any type of differential failure occurs on an LSD R200.

 

I also have the engineer disease which is one reason I have a ceramic bearing in my R200... hmmm...

[Jerminator96]

From what I have read and researched your going to want an LSD center for the R200 but otherwise, it should be able to handle quite some abuse. The stub axles will most likely give out before any type of differential failure occurs on an LSD R200.

 

I also have the engineer disease which is one reason I have a ceramic bearing in my R200... hmmm...

 

 

Wait until you see the High Test Peroxide power plant I'm working on for my motorcycle.

 

So the LSD center for the R200, huh? Are their any upgrades available for the stub axles? What part actually breaks?

[rudypoochris]

So the LSD center for the R200, huh? Are their any upgrades available for the stub axles? What part actually breaks?

 

Search this one. There are upgrades. Modern-motorsports.com is offering a 39 spline stub, stock 280z is 29 spline IIRC. It shears where the splines end and the smooth shaft begins usually.

 

Their are many LSD carriers. The Power Brute is probably the most popular as of late. It is getting hard to find though apparently - I would search.

[Michael]

To sum up, the Z rear suspension swap is NOT pointless, but it is complicated, expensive and labor-intensive. When contemplating any such swap, one ought to balance the benefits vs. the costs/efforts. The consensus seems to be that for a surprisingly broad range of applications and power levels, the stock Z rear suspension and drivetrain are good enough – perhaps with minor upgrades such as CV halfshafts. At some point I would like to design and build my own unequal-length double A-arm suspension, with a Ford 9†center-section IRS and inboard disk brakes. But at this point that would be silly, considering that I have many yeoman-grade upgrades and maintenance items to address.

 

Changing the topic… the look of the C6 Corvette coupe is really starting to grow on me. As the typical new performance car’s weight is staring to exceed 4000 lbs, the Corvette’s 3200 is starting to sound lithe and trim. If could only justify as slightly accelerated midlife crisis!

[Jerminator96]

To sum up, the Z rear suspension swap is NOT pointless, but it is complicated, expensive and labor-intensive. When contemplating any such swap, one ought to balance the benefits vs. the costs/efforts. The consensus seems to be that for a surprisingly broad range of applications and power levels, the stock Z rear suspension and drivetrain are good enough – perhaps with minor upgrades such as CV halfshafts. At some point I would like to design and build my own unequal-length double A-arm suspension, with a Ford 9†center-section IRS and inboard disk brakes. But at this point that would be silly, considering that I have many yeoman-grade upgrades and maintenance items to address.

 

Changing the topic… the look of the C6 Corvette coupe is really starting to grow on me. As the typical new performance car’s weight is staring to exceed 4000 lbs, the Corvette’s 3200 is starting to sound lithe and trim. If could only justify as slightly accelerated midlife crisis!

 

 

I'd say that is a fair summary. Out of curiosity, would you want to use pushrods and bellcranks or a more conventional spring setup on your custom suspension?

 

I will have to agree with you about the pigs that are rolling off the line today, it's disgusting. I was a big camaro guy (still am really) but lately I have been trying to find something lighter to toy around with. Hence my 1971 240Z!

[JBSRace1]

I personally feel that changing out the rear suspension, (especially ignoring the bigger issue regarding the Z car suspension, which is the front suspension, not the rear), because it is weak and/or can’t handle power, or is a poor performance design for a sports car is an assumed and/or misguided concept that we see come up from time to time. I understand wanting to install a different rear suspension and different differential for the sake of “because we canâ€, or for “WOW factor†to make our Z a little different from the rest, but I don't understand that swap from a performance stand point regarding drag racing, road racing or performance street use. The OE Z car rear suspension has proven itself in strength and design! From a performance perspective, the front suspension needs the attention WAY before the rear does. The hows, whys, and what fors, have been documented in our "Brakes, Wheels, Suspension and Chassis" section. Peruse through the stickies at the top of that section for some very good in-depth info.

 

Not sure what sort of power you are planning to put to the ground, but below is a picture of one of our members with a Blown, Nitrous dual quad V-8 on drag slicks, (the differential and rear suspension wont see much more brutal, punishing power delivery than that without flipping the car over!) running 9.2 seconds in the ¼ at 153+ MPH! For perspective, that car is going 0-153 MPH in 9.2 seconds, with the stock Datsun Z differential and suspension! This car runs this fast, and every-time that stock Datsun differential and rear suspension is absorbing enough power/torque to "yank" the front wheels off the ground, time and again on the stock parts. I know of at least one other member running 8 seconds at 150+ on the stock Datsun differential and suspension.

Geometry wise, the stock Datsun rear suspension isn’t too bad. It’s not perfect, but not too shabby, especially considering the age of its design. These car with the stock rear suspension design are still successfully campaigning on the race tracks against today’s offerings with much more modern suspension designs.

 

I would agree that there probably is some to be gained handling wise with different suspension, but will take several years in sorting it out, (geometry adjustment, spring rates, balanced to the rest of the chassis, chassis stiffness etc), and only the most discerning road racers among us would be able to notice that difference, and with what is known about how to make the current Z car suspension design truly competitive on the track, would cost far less, time invested in setup and tuning would be shorted by not just months, but years, etc. Again, for the sake of making a Z car different than the rest, wanting to give it WOW factor, or just because we can, I say do it. From a performance standpoint, it will cost more money, require several more years invested in tuning tweaking, before it would be “acceptable†or hopefully, a better performing design than a nicely sorted out OE Z car suspension, and that is only if the person doing the tuning and tweaking is savvy enough regarding chassis design and tuning.

 

That’s my $.02

 

 

That is a bad azz Z no doubt. But how is he getting past NHRA tech? Or is he just doing test N tunes at none NHRA events?

 

 

NHRA rule 2.3 REAREND

 

After market axles and axle-retention device mandatory on any car running 10.99 (*6.99) or quicker and any car with locked differential. Cars running 10.99 (*6.99) or quicker that weigh more than 2,000 pounds (907 kg) with independent rear suspension must have swing axle differential replaced with conventional differential housing assembly.

[naviathan]

I personally feel that changing out the rear suspension, (especially ignoring the bigger issue regarding the Z car suspension, which is the front suspension, not the rear), because it is weak and/or can’t handle power, or is a poor performance design for a sports car is an assumed and/or misguided concept that we see come up from time to time. I understand wanting to install a different rear suspension and different differential for the sake of “because we can”, or for “WOW factor” to make our Z a little different from the rest, but I don't understand that swap from a performance stand point regarding drag racing, road racing or performance street use. The OE Z car rear suspension has proven itself in strength and design! From a performance perspective, the front suspension needs the attention WAY before the rear does. The hows, whys, and what fors, have been documented in our "Brakes, Wheels, Suspension and Chassis" section. Peruse through the stickies at the top of that section for some very good in-depth info.

 

Not sure what sort of power you are planning to put to the ground, but below is a picture of one of our members with a Blown, Nitrous dual quad V-8 on drag slicks, (the differential and rear suspension wont see much more brutal, punishing power delivery than that without flipping the car over!) running 9.2 seconds in the ¼ at 153+ MPH! For perspective, that car is going 0-153 MPH in 9.2 seconds, with the stock Datsun Z differential and suspension! This car runs this fast, and every-time that stock Datsun differential and rear suspension is absorbing enough power/torque to "yank" the front wheels off the ground, time and again on the stock parts. I know of at least one other member running 8 seconds at 150+ on the stock Datsun differential and suspension.

Geometry wise, the stock Datsun rear suspension isn’t too bad. It’s not perfect, but not too shabby, especially considering the age of its design. These car with the stock rear suspension design are still successfully campaigning on the race tracks against today’s offerings with much more modern suspension designs.

 

I would agree that there probably is some to be gained handling wise with different suspension, but will take several years in sorting it out, (geometry adjustment, spring rates, balanced to the rest of the chassis, chassis stiffness etc), and only the most discerning road racers among us would be able to notice that difference, and with what is known about how to make the current Z car suspension design truly competitive on the track, would cost far less, time invested in setup and tuning would be shorted by not just months, but years, etc. Again, for the sake of making a Z car different than the rest, wanting to give it WOW factor, or just because we can, I say do it. From a performance standpoint, it will cost more money, require several more years invested in tuning tweaking, before it would be “acceptable” or hopefully, a better performing design than a nicely sorted out OE Z car suspension, and that is only if the person doing the tuning and tweaking is savvy enough regarding chassis design and tuning.

 

That’s my $.02

 

I'm going with BRAAP on this. The Z rear suspension didn't change a great deal from 70-78 and it's been the 240Z that's held long term records in Rally Races across the globe. The majority of the changes made to the rally cars were to the engine not the suspension. The Z family started life as a race car in my opinion and has devolved it's way to a sporty luxury coupe over the decades. Today's cars are over engineered in every way. That's why the vehicle weight keeps increasing. For performance and reliability sometimes it's better to use something simple that works instead of something over engineered and 3 times heavier than necessary. Personally I think Nissan did it right when they designed the suspension. When I can take sweeping 90* curves at 100mph+ on a back country road without so much as a tire squeal, there's nothing wrong with the suspension.

[happynukes]

 

But what would I know...

I'm just interooled turtle with a spoiler on my shell...(avatar) LOL

 

LOL!!! love it

 

the honda emblem on the shell is awesome

[m4xwellmurd3r]

That is a bad azz Z no doubt. But how is he getting past NHRA tech? Or is he just doing test N tunes at none NHRA events?

 

 

NHRA rule 2.3 REAREND

 

After market axles and axle-retention device mandatory on any car running 10.99 (*6.99) or quicker and any car with locked differential. Cars running 10.99 (*6.99) or quicker that weigh more than 2,000 pounds (907 kg) with independent rear suspension must have swing axle differential replaced with conventional differential housing assembly.

 

he IS running "aftermarket" Axles. he has 300zx axles now, which weren't stock. Axle retention device..not sure what that means. Do they mean something so if the axle blows it won't beat around and potentially fly off the car?

[Phantom]

You're correct - it's like a drive-shaft loop but for the half axles. Difficult to build because of the suspension travel but - from first had experience - very necessary. I blew a half-shaft universal and it really tore things up. Fortunately it was on the 1st to 2nd shift so I was going relatively slowly. It did about $800 in damage. Think what it would have done if it had occurred on the 3rd to 4th shift at around 90 MPH. Totally scary.

[JBSRace1]

Axle retention device is a positive lock to keep the axle from separating from the differential like a C-clip eliminator for a GM 10 or 12 bolt.

This is the portion of the rule I was referring too.

 

"" Cars running 10.99 (*6.99) or quicker that weigh more than 2,000 pounds (907 kg) with independent rear suspension must have swing axle differential replaced with conventional differential housing assembly. ""