Electric 240z Project Pics

[jmead]

At the request of a few members here I would like to share my current progress on project AmpEater - the electric 240z.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The motor is a 9" kostov 144v, rated to produce 15kw continuously (I'll be pushing it much harder than this in short bursts). The battery pack consists of 12x DieHard "Platinum" 12v 73AH AGM batteries which are actually rebadged Hawker Odyssey. Combined they weigh 720lbs and can produce well over 200,000 peak watts. The motor controller is a 144v/156v unit capable of 1000Amps, pumping out 144,000 watts peak. This works out to 156hp, but several hundred ft/lbs of torque.

 

The motor is connected to the stock 4spd transmission via a solid metal coupler (no clutch). This was made by welding the hub out of the clutch onto a metal cylinder bored to fit the 1 1/8" shaft from the motor. I had this done professionally as I don't trust my welding skills for such a critical piece. The car will stay in 1st gear pretty much all the time, even when stopped (electric motor does not need to idle). 2nd may be used for the highway. 3rd and 4th are not needed.

 

Acceleration should be quite a bit better than stock in the low end. I have not had a chance to really push it yet as the car is not yet inspected.

 

I have $6200 total into the car right now, including every bolt and connector purchased so far.

[Lukaniuk]

Thats a really cool project. How long do you expect to run on one charge?

[naviathan]

Wow, nice work...I have got to see this thing in action...

[nick.mitchell69]

Something to think about for the near future hey?????

[MaTTSuN]

very cool i was thinking about doing that aswell do you have any batterys where the gas tank "was"

how much do the batt's and electric motor weight compaired to the gas engine?

[jmead]

very cool i was thinking about doing that aswell do you have any batterys where the gas tank "was"

how much do the batt's and electric motor weight compared to the gas engine?

 

The total system weight is about 850 lbs for batteries/motor/transmission

 

I've seen the stock engine quoted at 600lbs. Plus I removed the gas tank, radiator, engine starting battery, and the rear spare, so the total weight is probably about the same.

 

Lukaniuk - One charge should be good for about 40 miles on the highway, or 50+ miles around town at a lower speed. My commute is 25 miles each way, so with a short charge during class I can do 95% of all my driving gas free. (I've got plans for a small auxiliary generator when I need to make longer trips)

 

There is a pack of 4 batteries in the rear to even out the weight distribution.

 

That gaping hole is the future home of the generator. If I weren't going that route I could have put the rear batteries there and kept the car looking totally stock.

 

I plan on making the generator a modular unit that can be easily removed and replaced with a second smaller battery pack for longer range, or, in the future a ultra high tech LiFePO4 pack for 100+ mile range.

[280Zone]

This is one sweet looking project....keep us posted!

[Gritz]

"This works out to 156hp, but several hundred ft/lbs of torque"

 

If you can make power like this, why is big companies having so many problems??? I think i know, but i hate to think it's true....

[jmead]

"This works out to 156hp, but several hundred ft/lbs of torque"

 

If you can make power like this, why is big companies having so many problems??? I think i know, but i hate to think it's true....

 

I'm using a brushed DC system, whereas every production EV uses a AC induction setup.

 

AC Advantages:

Regenerative braking

No brush maintenance

Higher efficiency

Higher RPM range (no transmission needed)

Can be sealed from environment

Can be water cooled

 

AC Disadvantages:

Waay more expensive

Lower peak power

Complex motor controller

 

DC Advantages:

Much higher peak power

Waay cheaper

Simple motor controller

 

DC Disadvantages:

Lower efficiency

No regen braking

Brush replacement every 100,000 miles

Must be air cooled (brush dust needs to go somewhere)

 

I can see why AC is the system of choice for production vehicles, and I'll admit that some of the benefits are very enticing, I really want regenerative braking for instance. But a DC system is still has so many advantages over a gasoline engine that the difference isn't worth the price difference in my mind. If you look at http://www.nedra.com/, the National Electric Drag Racing Association, all of the fastest electric vehicles in the world use DC systems.

[Gritz]

I'm using a brushed DC system, whereas every production EV uses a AC induction setup.

 

AC Advantages:

Regenerative braking

No brush maintenance

Higher efficiency

Higher RPM range (no transmission needed)

Can be sealed from environment

Can be water cooled

 

AC Disadvantages:

Waay more expensive

Lower peak power

Complex motor controller

 

DC Advantages:

Much higher peak power

Waay cheaper

Simple motor controller

 

DC Disadvantages:

Lower efficiency

No regen braking

Brush replacement every 100,000 miles

Must be air cooled (brush dust needs to go somewhere)

 

I can see why AC is the system of choice for production vehicles, and I'll admit that some of the benefits are very enticing, I really want regenerative braking for instance. But a DC system is still has so many advantages over a gasoline engine that the difference isn't worth the price difference in my mind. If you look at http://www.nedra.com/, the National Electric Drag Racing Association, all of the fastest electric vehicles in the world use DC systems.

 

Cool Make history man!! I love it when people think out side of the box....

[Six_Shooter]

I see you're running or going to be running a 144V system. All 12 batteries in series, correct?

 

I'm a little more than looking into doing this with my 1985 GMC Jimmy. I have a friend who has an electric bike, was a record holder IIRC a little while ago.

 

I'm also looking at using a generator for longer trips and possibly heavy loads. The SUV, which I am currently naming SUVolt, still needs to act like a utility Vehicle, and so it still needs to tow, and get around long distances.

 

Initially I just want to get it running on electric power then I'll add in some of the other niceties.

 

Where did you source your parts from? The guy that I have helping me thinks that I will have more or almost what you have into the entire car, just in the electric conversion.

 

I had considered two banks of batteries, but I think I also want to go with a 144V system, the advantages of the higher voltage system seem to outweigh the lower voltage.

 

Any information you have would be helpful. I have been reading over some posts from a mailing list that is nothing but EV related, I wish I had considered this possible a few years ago, I might actually have started buying some of the needed parts before now.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[NZeder]

Love the project - I was going to do this to a B210 a few years back and I still keep an eye on the electric car conversions and commercial electrics cars as this is something I want to do one day (the old electrical engineer in me before moving into IT) and with our gas at around $6 US a gallon today I am very very keen to do something like this.

[junglist]

In high school we had an electric vehicle project we raced against other schools, ours was a ford ranger pickup that was donated to us and we used a starter motor from a jet engine, but our setup was more or less very similar to what you have...12 odyssey batteries, DC, etc.

 

Very, very cool that you are doing this.

[jmead]

I see you're running or going to be running a 144V system. All 12 batteries in series, correct?

 

Yes, the batteries are all in series for 144v.

I'm a little more than looking into doing this with my 1985 GMC Jimmy.

 

While not the most aerodynamic vehicle you will at least have a lot of capacity for batteries. Generally lighter vehicles are better but there is nothing wrong with a heavy one as long as you have a proportionately larger pack. Bigger GVW inflates the cost of the conversion because you'll need a larger motor and more powerfull motor controller to achive the same relative performance.

I'm also looking at using a generator for longer trips and possibly heavy loads. The SUV, which I am currently naming SUVolt, still needs to act like a utility Vehicle, and so it still needs to tow, and get around long distances.

 

You will probably need a fairly large genset for pulling loads and such, I'd guess around 20-30kw for any sort of long distance use. This would require a engine with around 60 hp constant output.

 

Where did you source your parts from? The guy that I have helping me thinks that I will have more or almost what you have into the entire car, just in the electric conversion.

 

The controller is from Logisystems, the motor was found on ebay, along with the wiring, battery lugs, shunts, contactors, etc. I had alot of patience, if I were to have been building it over a shorter timeframe I probably would stick to one of the several EV suppliers.

I had considered two banks of batteries, but I think I also want to go with a 144V system, the advantages of the higher voltage system seem to outweigh the lower voltage.

One bank is definitely the way to go for simplicity and ease of balancing. For such a large vehicle I think you'd need a bank of around 24 6v flooded "golf cart" batteries. These are around 200+ amp hour generally so you'd have more than twice the capacity (~28kwh) vs my 10kwh.

Any information you have would be helpful. I have been reading over some posts from a mailing list that is nothing but EV related, I wish I had considered this possible a few years ago, I might actually have started buying some of the needed parts before now.

 

Pretty much everything you need to know is out there, you just have to dig through multiple sources to get a pretty complete picture. EVDL.org and EVTech Digest in particular are great resources. Any problem you might have has already been solved by someone else somewhere, better to learn from their mistakes than make them yourself (cheaper too). I'd be glad to help with any specific details you need as I've probably read every page/post/forum/article on EVs out there. I guess I'm a little obsessive.

[Shift]

Have you thought of using an alternator with a voltage regulator for a generator?

 

I would like see your car in action. How long does a charge last you timewise and how long does it take to recharge?

 

I wouldn't mined building a Z gas/elec hybrid of sorts.

[280zwitha383]

I'm way out of my knowledge here but a/some clutch driven alternators that only engaged when breaking (perhaps simply wired to the brake lights/pedal) could be hooked up to the drivetrain in some way?.... just a thought..

[JSM]

How are you going to run the brake booster? Manual brakes only?

 

I'm also quite currious to how it will handle with all the weight over the front end like that.

[TravRMK]

With all the stuff he removed I would think the weight would be close to the stock weight, maybe less. I wonder if you could use a awd transmission instead, and have the front driveline fixed to a pulley in the egine bay running a series of alternators or something to keep the charge up??

[jmead]

A separate generator/alternator for regen braking would work, though it makes for a "messy" system. My motor has a shaft at each end, so I do have a point where I could attach a pulley that ran a load, perhaps with an electromagnetic clutch for on/off control to minimize parasitic drag. It would need to be pretty big, the 10,000 watt generator I have for the APU weighs 90 lbs and delivers 70 amps peak at 144 volts, which would probably take well over 30 seconds to slow the car down from 55mph to 10mph (this number is a complete guess, but probably accurate). Would still be usefull, I live in a very hill location so you could recover much of the energy used climbing a hill if you can spread the the regen recharge over a long period of time and not expect to come to a complete stop, just maintain a constant speed by adding load. Its such a cool concept to "take energy" out of your car's momentum, store it, and then turn it back into movement later.

 

I'm going to try it with manual for now, but it is common for EVs to have a small vacuum pump installed for brake assist. I will add this if necessary.

 

I'm hoping the weight out front wont make a big difference. The total weight of the front is about the same, but shifted a few inches forward. I could have but the batteries on their sides and had a taller pack that was more over the axle, but it came down to a trade off between body roll and steering response. I decided to go with the lower center of gravity. I will push it soon and see how it performs, but there are a few things I need to attend to first. I'm reinforcing the motor mount (I just learned that the motor may make even more torque than I thought, twice that of the stock motor) against twisting, and I need to attend to the rear brakes. One is dragging and the other is without shoes/drum at the moment. I may switch over to discs for simplicity, but they weigh more and I want to minimize rotating mass/unsprung weight.

[Careless]

I think you should use the FS5R30A Transmission rather than the FS5W17B or C.

 

if it has to take near 400 torque from an electric motor, which is almost instantaneous compared to the stock L engine, you may see exploding tranny bits soon.