Electric 240z Project Pics

[MIBPreacher]

Havent posted in a while but check out www.evsource.com they have a step by step process of converting a 200sx to electic. He had a special bell housing made and used an adapter to hook up the fly wheel to the Electric motor and could still clutch properly. I emailed him to see how much his bellhousing cost. I read through it an came up with a rough estimate for the parts list. I have a NA Z31 that i wouldnt mind doing this to.

 

Conversion Parts Quantity Price Total

 

9" Electric motor - Warp 9 www.evsource.com......................... ................... 1 $1,910.00 $1,910.00

12v batteries - exide orbital 12v...................... ......................... .............. 12 $166.00 $1,992.00

Bellhousing adapter (est).................... ......................... ......................... . 1 $200.00 $200.00

Cooling fan - Dayton 12VDC 2C646 Blower www.evsource.com...................... 1 $65.75 $65.75

300V Zilla controller kit #201-z1k-HV-p www.evsource.com................. 1 $2,705.00 $2,705.00

Zilla Performance Kit cooler #701-88000-2 www.evsource.com.............. 1 $189.83 $189.83

Throttle HEPA Style #201-HEPA..................... ......................... .............. 1 $107.25 $107.25

Zolox speed sensor #201-2171S.................... ......................... ................ 1 $45.25 $45.25

Tyco Kilovac 500A 320V EV200 Contactor #101-EV200AAANA www.evsource.com 1 $138.88 $138.88

Fuse block 6 circuit ATC block w/ #6 screw terminals www.evsource.com. 1 $21.63 $21.63

PFC-20 onboard Charging system #501-PFC20M www.evsource.com...... 1 $2,116.00 $2,116.00

PakTrakr 6 battery remote monitoring system................... ........................ 1 $69.95 $69.95

20ft of 6AWG gauge cable red...................... ......................... ......... 20 $1.08 $21.60

20ft of 6AWG gauge cable black.................... ......................... ......... 20 $1.08 $21.60

50ft of 2/0 battery cable for batteries red...................... ................... 50 $4.28 $214.00

50ft of 2/0 battery cable for batteries black.................... .................. 50 $4.28 $214.00

Ratcheting diamond Handheld crimper for butt connections.............. ............ 1 $225.00 $225.00

Battery Terminals................ ......................... ......................... ......... 24 $4.00 $96.00

Battery Terminals Covers................... ......................... .................... 24 $0.79 $18.96

 

 

TOTAL COST OF PROJECT $10,372.70+ misc metal supplies

 

AAA National average for 1 year of owning a vehicle, fuel, oil and maintenance, insurance and driving 15000 miles shows a cost of $7823.00 per person per year.

[dskubitz]

That would be a very cool setup. Eliminate the diff, transmission, driveshaft. Plus you could use 2 smaller (cheaper) motors and still exceed the output of one large (expensive) motor. This would also allow for the batteries to be strategically placed as low as possible, with wiggle room to adjust the front/rear weight distribution to be balanced perfectly. The motor to half-shaft connection is the only problem, likely requiring belts or chains of some kind.

 

I wonder if you could place the motors end to end where the differential goes, then attach a short CV joint from the motors to the wheels. Do they have short motors (around 9 inches) that would have enough power to drive the vehicle?

Conversely, I wonder if you can put the motors next to each other with CV attachments. there would be a contant slight angle for each CV, but if it didn't vibrate or harm the cv joints in any way, it might be an option.

If I was to try this setup, I would like to put the batter recharge station plug, and maybe a couple of batteries where the gas tank and filler goes (depending on the weight distribution). I would like to keep the batteries out of the hatch area, but still want enough juice for some decent driving radius.

Does anyone know about the "heat pump" type of A/C systems that are used in electric vehicles?

I'm very tempted to build something with a maximum budget of $20,000.

[Gollum]

Havent posted in a while but check out www.evsource.com they have a step by step process of converting a 200sx to electic. He had a special bell housing made and used an adapter to hook up the fly wheel to the Electric motor and could still clutch properly. I emailed him to see how much his bellhousing cost. I read through it an came up with a rough estimate for the parts list. I have a NA Z31 that i wouldnt mind doing this to.

 

Conversion Parts Quantity Price Total

 

9" Electric motor - Warp 9 www.evsource.com......................... ................... 1 $1,910.00 $1,910.00

12v batteries - exide orbital 12v...................... ......................... .............. 12 $166.00 $1,992.00

Bellhousing adapter (est).................... ......................... ......................... . 1 $200.00 $200.00

Cooling fan - Dayton 12VDC 2C646 Blower www.evsource.com...................... 1 $65.75 $65.75

300V Zilla controller kit #201-z1k-HV-p www.evsource.com................. 1 $2,705.00 $2,705.00

Zilla Performance Kit cooler #701-88000-2 www.evsource.com.............. 1 $189.83 $189.83

Throttle HEPA Style #201-HEPA..................... ......................... .............. 1 $107.25 $107.25

Zolox speed sensor #201-2171S.................... ......................... ................ 1 $45.25 $45.25

Tyco Kilovac 500A 320V EV200 Contactor #101-EV200AAANA www.evsource.com 1 $138.88 $138.88

Fuse block 6 circuit ATC block w/ #6 screw terminals www.evsource.com. 1 $21.63 $21.63

PFC-20 onboard Charging system #501-PFC20M www.evsource.com...... 1 $2,116.00 $2,116.00

PakTrakr 6 battery remote monitoring system................... ........................ 1 $69.95 $69.95

20ft of 6AWG gauge cable red...................... ......................... ......... 20 $1.08 $21.60

20ft of 6AWG gauge cable black.................... ......................... ......... 20 $1.08 $21.60

50ft of 2/0 battery cable for batteries red...................... ................... 50 $4.28 $214.00

50ft of 2/0 battery cable for batteries black.................... .................. 50 $4.28 $214.00

Ratcheting diamond Handheld crimper for butt connections.............. ............ 1 $225.00 $225.00

Battery Terminals................ ......................... ......................... ......... 24 $4.00 $96.00

Battery Terminals Covers................... ......................... .................... 24 $0.79 $18.96

 

 

TOTAL COST OF PROJECT $10,372.70+ misc metal supplies

 

AAA National average for 1 year of owning a vehicle, fuel, oil and maintenance, insurance and driving 15000 miles shows a cost of $7823.00 per person per year.

 

A break down of how much of that cost is actually fuel, and maintanence on the drivetrain would be nice... At my yearly commute miles of 16.5k, even if gas went up to $7 I'd only be spending $3,300 at 35mpg wich is easily attainable in many MANY cars. Get 50mpg like in a CRX HF and that goes down to $2100 A YEAR for $7 a gallon! Scary thing is that my Z right now is costing me around $4,500 a year in gas. I've been driving it almost half a year now with maybe $100 put into it for maintanence/required work.

 

And I've run the estimates for adding a CRX to my insurance, moving my Z to a recreational vehicle, and getting a CRX HF as a commuter my insurance would only go up around $10 a month.

 

 

If prices come down and you could build an eletric car for under $5k it might seem reasonable. But personally, I'm just going to buy something that gets 45-50mpg that's worth less than $2k total. Sure I might still be spending more money in the long run, but I can do a whole heck of a lot more with a CRX HF that has a 500 mile range and then just needs a 10 gallon fill up at that point, than I can with a EV that can get a 100 mile range if I don't hit too many hills...

 

I'm not knocking the project, as I still think it's awesome. I'd just like some context if we're going to start talking about the average costs of a vehicle. AAA standards mentioned are based on what the average person is willing to spend, not what could be attained by most if they just simply tried. There's no reason for a car to cost you $8k a year to run and operate.

[Phantom]

Has anyone seen the Volvo development hybrid? It has a DC pancake motor in each wheel so it has no drivetrain or transmission. It can have either a small gas or small diesel to regen the batteries. Tests have indicated that it should run about 160 mpg. It's expected out sometime between 2012 and 2015 due to control technologie development necessary to fully control and synchronize the four motors.

[theramz]

I've looked into this. The transmission tunnel narrows down so much between the seats that its just not possible. You'd either have to live with a driveshaft or flip the differential around and have the motor behind the wheels. This would require a new differential mount to be fabricated but would be interesting.

You are an inspiration to us all.

Since you don't need all the power all the time, how about 2 smaller motors inline (tandem)? One main motor with the booster motor in front of it connected with an electro magnetic clutch. Then a 2 speed overdrive on the main motor to the drive shaft. All on the same plain or common shaft. Main motor for cruisng in high gear and booster engaged in low for acceleration. Then maybe the savings in motor size would make the regen motors more reasonable. All could be controlled with a PLC.

[Gollum]

Hmmm, wonder how hard it would be to make a new diff mount to mount it facing backwards. If you did that you could mount a motor where the tank used to be. Then you're left with the entire bay and tunnel for batteries.

[RTz]

Hmmm, wonder how hard it would be to make a new diff mount to mount it facing backwards. If you did that you could mount a motor where the tank used to be. Then you're left with the entire bay and tunnel for batteries.

 

Interesting thought.... but the ring & pinion will be running backwards. Not sure if diff integrity is the same in reverse. The off-road crowd would probably be able to answer that one.

[OlderThanMe]

Interesting thought.... but the ring & pinion will be running backwards. Not sure if diff integrity is the same in reverse. The off-road crowd would probably be able to answer that one.

 

Couldn't you use a Datsun/Nissan 720/pickup front diff and remove the extension housing and mount your other axle there with a bolt in stub style R180 center section? Its just an idea that may work.

[zedevan]

Great project!

 

A break down of how much of that cost is actually fuel, and maintanence on the drivetrain would be nice

 

It's all availble on the net, from memory it includes depreshiation, so im not sure if it really is taking into account used cars yet alone classic cars...

[Gollum]

Couldn't you use a Datsun/Nissan 720/pickup front diff and remove the extension housing and mount your other axle there with a bolt in stub style R180 center section? Its just an idea that may work.

 

oOo, there's also the subie front diffs, but those are R160 on all of them aren't they? Not sure if that's up to the torque unless you're gonna keep skinny tires on it.

 

It's all availble on the net, from memory it includes depreshiation, so im not sure if it really is taking into account used cars yet alone classic cars...

 

And that's why I bring it up. Depreshiation, maintenance, and running costs still exist on a EV. Sure average year cost of the average car on the road (which is a SUV around here) is $8k. But lets just assume that $3000 of that is fuel (which is a TON to spend on gas unless you're in a gas gusler or drive 25+miles one way to work), then an EV is probably going to cost, say, $500 a year by comparison. It's going to take a long time for the EV to really pay for itself.

 

To say that average costs of a vehicle are $8k, and suggest that a EV will save you that much every year is completely false. A EV still has a motor (more reliable, I admit). A EV still has suspension. A EV still has electrical systems. A EV still has windshield wipers, door locks, and fenders to get bent. You're main "maintenence" costs won't differ much, ESPECIALLY when you consider the life of most of the batteries being used, and budget changing them every 5-8 years.

 

I guess my point, is that if you had a econo box with similar practicality as most EV's, then the yearly costs won't be much different at all. But let's not compare the average vehicle on the road to a EV, that's just plain not fair to either side. One person might save $4k a year by owning a EV, but that same person would probably save $3k a year by buying a car that gets 50mpg and driving it in a manner that'll actually get 50+mpg.

 

EDIT: Found the AAA article mentioned. At their fuel costs the average fuel numbers were $1,335 for a 15,000 mile a year car, which average yearly costs were $7,823. If we jump to 20,000 a year fuel costs were $1780, while average overall costs are $9,498. So you can see that a very small portion of the AAA figures are actually FUEL related, which is what making a EV is about, and where it's going to saving you money. Now, the AAA figures are based off of a $2.256 per gallon... Can any of you guys find gas that cheap still? No. But take those average numbers and double them and you've got today's prices. $3560 for 20,000 miles.

 

Oh, and I ran the numbers. Their average fuel consumption figures are all based on 25.5mpg. Thier small sedan figures are 30.5 mpg, while thier large sedan figures are 22.5mpg. The middle sedan is 24.0mpg. The average comes out to, like I said, 25.5. So again, gettign 50mpg, which IS possible with some cars, you could bring those fuel costs back down in half, back to the origonal figures: $1780 a year at 20,000 miles.

 

Here's the link to the article: http://www.aaaexchange.com/Assets/Files/20073261133460.YourDrivingCosts2007.pdf

[theramz]

You are an inspiration to us all.

Since you don't need all the power all the time, how about 2 smaller motors inline (tandem)? One main motor with the booster motor in front of it connected with an electro magnetic clutch. Then a 2 speed overdrive on the main motor to the drive shaft. All on the same plain or common shaft. Main motor for cruisng in high gear and booster engaged in low for acceleration. Then maybe the savings in motor size would make the regen motors more reasonable. All could be controlled with a PLC.

Just found out this is already possible with the Transwarp 9 http://www.evsource.com/tls_motors.php The mag clutch between idea would probably not be strong enough for performace driving. I think the differential could be replaced with a 4-1 right angle spiral bevel gear box to one wheel that would save some more mass.

I think the biggest burn on this project is the nearly $5k for the controller and cooler-wtf, there must be a cheaper way!

[jmead]

90% of my driving is the same route, every day. I commute to school each day, 24 miles each way. The drive takes me about 25 minutes and costs me about $7 a day in fuel at todays gas prices. This is with and "fuel effecient sedan" EPA rated 32mpg highway. If you factor in oil, maintenence, and the depreciation over time of the vehicle each mile may cost considerably more than this.

 

I spent $2300 on a pack of 12 PC1750 Hawker Odyssey sealed AGM batteries that are warrantied for 4 years free replacement. Assuming the pack lasts only those 4 years, my battery costs are $575 a year. When you add electricity to this ((5 recharges/week X 52wks) X 10kwh/charge X $0.10/kwh) = $252 in electricity "fuel" costs.

 

Now, how many mpg do I need to get to match $827 in transportation costs for 12,480 miles for commuting?

 

How much is peace of mind that you can afford to keep your job if gas hits $5, $6, $7, $8 a gallon worth?

[Gollum]

75mpg would cost $832 for 12,480 miles.

 

55mpg would cost $1134 @ 12,480 miles.

 

You can see it's not a huge cost difference for cars once you get over 45mpg or so. What really hurts is cars nowdays that are seeing 25-30mpg at the pump.

 

And I'm not saying you're not doing this for a good reason. I just have an issu when other members come and try to act like the EV is this holy grail that it isnt. You're still limited to a short range, so you can only use it around town, and as long as fuel prices go up (which is historically accurate) then it's a wise choice.

 

I was simply asking that if we're going to compare the EV to normal cars, lets be fair you know? I respect your choice to make your Z a EV, and I'm still watching for updates with high anticipation. But let's please compare apples to apples. We can't compare average vehicle costs of a sedan to a EV. Would we compare a geo metro to a hummer? No...

 

Another thing for us californians to think about too, is that electricity prices and rates fluxuate as much as fuel prices, and your price per kwh is directly related to how much energy you use. Charging your car every night might increase the rate significantly. I'm not saying it'll be enough to really make the "fuel" cost insane, but it'll make using any electricity in your house more expensive. If you live in a large house with AC/Electric heat, and have a family with electronics on constantly, just a small hit per kwh might make a big difference in the monthly electricity bill.

 

 

The reality comes down to the fact that even the generators power companies use are far more effient than our engines in our cars, as they run at optimum ranges constantly, thus giving the power grid a lot more power per gallon of fuel than we ever could in our cars. So electricity, in theory, should always be cheaper than gas.

[jmead]

 

I was simply asking that if we're going to compare the EV to normal cars, lets be fair you know? I respect your choice to make your Z a EV, and I'm still watching for updates with high anticipation. But let's please compare apples to apples. We can't compare average vehicle costs of a sedan to a EV. Would we compare a geo metro to a hummer? No...

 

 

Well then one must consider the other benefits, to be fair. What car can I go out and buy that gets 50+ mpg and will roast the tires at will? Where can I get a 50+ mpg vehicle with same class and appeal of a vintage Z? Most vehicles are built for a purpose, to haul 6 kids at once, to get 60mpg, to look really cool....an EV can be cheap and fast and cool and "eco friendly" all at the same time.

 

As far as I'm concerned, this EV is the holy grail. The only limitation I see is the range issue, but the only reason that is still an issue is that I've been having too much fun drifting around parking lots to weld the generator in.

 

I should also point out that I chose expensive, high performance batteries. 90% of conversions use flooded lead acid which cost ~1/3 as much per mile versus AGM.

[Gollum]

And all those reason are why I DO find the project interesting and cool, no doubt.

 

But even with your high performance batteries you're range would still barely get me to and from my mild commute. I drive 26.6 miles one way + driving to lunch. That's a fairly average commute here in the bay area, and lucky me, it's completely counter commute. With the other driving I do in the evenings before heading home, I'm driving at least 65 miles per day, which is a bit of a stretch for most EVs I've seen online. Plus there's tons, I mean TONS of hills in the bay area.

 

But isn't this the beauty of the Z car? With enough clever engineering it can become nearly anything.

 

My personal "holy grail" would be an all tube chassis, aluminium paneled single seater with a fiberglass body resembling an ultima, or same idea. Powered by a power bike engine with around 130HP. With it only being big enough for a single person, weight should be down around 1200-1500 pounds max, if not around those weights WITH the driver. With that weight and that engine it should get around 60mpg easily. It would also be insanely fast, run on small cheap tires, and handle like... well a go kart.

 

I must admit though, if the range of your EV was more like 120 miles, or costed about 1/2 the price overall, then I'm not sure I'd be able to restrain myself. Electric is just so much cheaper than gasoline in reality.

 

The idea of a EV truck also sounds cool. Get an old toyota or datsun pickup, add batteries and you can still leave room in the bed to haul some things around town.

[jmead]

I must admit though, if the range of your EV was more like 120 miles, or costed about 1/2 the price overall, then I'm not sure I'd be able to restrain myself. Electric is just so much cheaper than gasoline in reality.

 

The idea of a EV truck also sounds cool. Get an old toyota or datsun pickup, add batteries and you can still leave room in the bed to haul some things around town.

 

The battery tech is holding electrics back right now, I'm hoping that changes quickly. Lithium has huge potential; while it is expensive now the raw materials aren't that expensive and china has huge lithium reserves. Things are going to start happening there....

 

I'm liking the truck concept as well, I've been keeping an eye on craigslist for a toyota with a decent body and a bad motor for cheap. Flooded lead acid will be much cheaper, easier to charge and balance. I think a truck could be done for ~$5k with good performance. That is with a 156v pack, 1000A controller, 9" motor and a DIY charger, if you're frugal and good at fabrication. Maybe $6k would be more reasonable including the truck and odds and ends.

 

I punched the numbers in a calc real quick and it looks like around 80 miles at 50 and 50 miles at 60. That'd get me there and back with half the initial cost and probably half the cost per mile.

[eec564]

PG&E offers a timed meter that lets you use electricity at a different rate depending on when you use most of your power. It's popular for a lot of clubs that use nearly all of their power in non-peak times and was also installed in the homes of people who leased EV-1s. If you put your charger on a timer so it charges overnight in off-peak times, you can take advantage of off-peak electric rates.

[getZ]

I've been following this project and I think it's great.

 

It's not even about saving money. If I could get a chance to kick the oil companies in the nuts, I would gladly do it! This is down right personal.

 

Figure out a way to generate power from the sun and you could be totaly self sufficient.....well at least a lot more self sufficient.

[Daeron]

If you wanna talk Holy Grail....

 

 

CD of 0.28, ~2500 pounds. Subaru XT, produced in 4 cyl and 6 cyl variants, available with 4wd, AWD, and FWD. I would bet dollars to donuts that a datsun clutch disc would spline right onto the crankshaft, so a RWD setup would be easy to fabricate.. and besides, people yank the front axles out of 4WD trannies all the time anyhow, just not ideal for long-term reliability.

 

As a gasser, it came with a 4 cyl, 1.8L, 9.5:1 compression engine that easily achieves up to 35+ MPG (reports of up to 45 but those are dubious) in the sedans and wagons with SPFI; MPFI hardware is available for the engine, you could put afterkarket EMS on it with sequential injection and a lean tune... 50 shouldn't be that difficult to achieve as long as your 2-wheelin' it.

 

As an electric?? HAHAHAHAHAHA, it would be STELLAR! (No pun intended)

 

Personally, I dream of running one of these either hybrid diesel/electric or off of LPG one of these days as my econo car so I don't have to worry about fuel so much...

 

Sorry, I had to get off-topic once the concept of "holy grail" was mentioned... the XT, to me, is the holy grail of sporty econo cars.

[jmead]

CD of 0.28, ~2500 pounds. Subaru XT, produced in 4 cyl and 6 cyl variants, available with 4wd, AWD, and FWD. I would bet dollars to donuts that a datsun clutch disc would spline right onto the crankshaft, so a RWD setup would be easy to fabricate.. and besides, people yank the front axles out of 4WD trannies all the time anyhow, just not ideal for long-term reliability.

 

As an electric?? HAHAHAHAHAHA, it would be STELLAR! (No pun intended)

 

Personally, I dream of running one of these either hybrid diesel/electric or off of LPG one of these days as my econo car so I don't have to worry about fuel so much...

 

Sorry, I had to get off-topic once the concept of "holy grail" was mentioned... the XT, to me, is the holy grail of sporty econo cars.

 

Thank you! I remember seeing that car and hearing it had an insanely low cd, but I just couldn't think of the name of the thing. Not only that, but it came in an AWD version? Awesome..... I've been thinking about a setup that included a big series wound DC motor in the back for acceleration, and a smaller PM or AC motor in the front for regen/high eff cruise. Too bad they seem so rare, I think I've only seen one or two on the road ever. Holy grail is right