datman Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Guys I have just had some custom aluminum shocks made for my 240 by a local company. If you have heard of AVO shocks, well this guy is MR Avo! has now started another company and did a very nice job on some fully adjustable inserts. He also make double adjustables at a fraction of the normal cost. I doubt with the current exchange rate will help but if anyone wants to give me dimensions and spring rates I can get you a cost. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New2TheZ2006 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Oh, yeah, uh, I know exactly what all you guys just said. Hold on, strut ok just fonud it in Webster. Now, for the technical idiot just getting into this, what struts (short answer please) do I order for my Z (1975 280Z). I need all 4 replaced. I plan on wanting a nice street ride with good handling and all, not planning on racing, but I got the itch to hit it at least once or twice to get some times when I am all done. Help, be nice, and I'm up for someone taking me under their wing as I do this thing. Thanks Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Jon, Take some time and search the site. There are literally hundreds of people who have discussed and built a suspension that meets the needs you've listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I've read this all finally, and still have a question. What is the difference between the 8610 and the 8611? EDIT: I found the answer on the Koni site. It appears that the 10 is single, and the 11 is double adjustable (but it appeared from this string that this was the difference between the 8611-1257 and the 8611-1437. So now I am confused. I was hoping one had a shorter body than th other, but that does not appear to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The 1437 is the 8610-1437. It might have been mis-typed somewhere above (most likely by me). The two Koni inserts that concern us Z guys are the 8610-1437RACE single adjustable and the 8611-1259 double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Gotcha on that, but I think I did find an answer to my main concern, and that was body length. Shox.com tech informs me the 8611 series has 4 different body lenths from 11.42" up to 15+" (1256, 1259,...) and the 8610 series has 2 body lenths - 11.42" and 13.07" (1436 and 1437). It sounded like the 8611 offers more flexibility in spring rate being this strut performance window overlaps (high and low) the 8610's non-adjustable compression portion setting. Am I understanding this correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The other news is the 8611-1259 double are now supposed to be digressively valved. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Digressive valving means they cover a wide range? I've read JohnC talks about it, but what does that mean exactly? Regards, Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Normal (linear) shock valving increases its resistance to motion in at a linear rate based on shaft speed. The faster the shaft moves the more resistant the linear valving is to that movement. Digressive shock valving reduces the rate of increase to resistance to movement at some pre-determined shaft speed (sometimes called the "knee point"). Digressive valving on the compression side allows the shock to be more compliant over bumps yet retain good control of body movments. Disgressive valving on the rebound side allows the spring to quickly return to its nominal length reducing the tendency for the spring to pack down over a series of bumps. Progressive shock valving used to be dominant in off road racing but the racers ahve learned the benfits of digressive valving so shock technology for off road racing has moved away from progressive valving rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 What range of spring rates is suitable for the 8611-1259? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 250 to 400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well, I ordered my 8610s today. I wanted 8611s, but this body width (according to Koni) is 1.8 inches, and the ID of my 240 tubes are only 1.75". It appears the 8610's width of 1.72 is gonna be close, but work. Does this sound correct by other's out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well' date=' I ordered my 8610s today. I wanted 8611s, but this body width (according to Koni) is 1.8 inches, and the ID of my 240 tubes are only 1.75". It appears the 8610's width of 1.72 is gonna be close, but work. Does this sound correct by other's out there?[/quote'] It took A LOT of work to make them fit my 240 tubes. Sand all the paint off the struts, ream out the inside of the strut tube, and I found there is the strut number stamped near the bottom of the strut that is raised a bit and catches as it goes in and needs to be knocked down. I got them to fit even after sectioning but just barely and it took a lot of effort. They were not consistent as one just fell in even with paint, one required some paint removal, and the other two were just a PITA. One of the scariest parts is trying to get the gland nuts started without cross-threading them since everything is so tight. Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Cameron, which strut insert are you refering to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I've fit 8610s and 8611s in 240Z struts. It takes some work, but they go in. BTW... the 8610 and 8611 use the exact same tube for the shock body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I suspected that, but this info on there being a difference (albeit a small difference) came from the Koni tech. I carefully measured my tubes and I found I was going to be about .005" too small for the 8611 based upon what Koni told me, a within a couple of thou of slack on the 8610. I hate to leave something like this open-ended. I think I call Koni again in the morning and see what their response is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Thinking about strut tubes, wouldn't it be cleaner to start with a new tube that fits the inserts easily? Instead of putting sleeves on and struggling to fit the insert I want to use, why not start out with a new tube thats threaded its full length? Does anyone know the source of full length steel strut tubes that are threaded? I know JohnC used some Penske units, but I couldn't find them on there website. http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/500/strut1.jpg http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/500/strut6.jpg http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/500/strut7.jpg Regards, Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datman Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Justin If you like I can get you a cost on the threaded tubes only, like my ones you have shown in the pics above. They would come with collars and gland nuts. You would need to find someone good at welding to fit them to the hubs, I think the guy that welded mine used 2 methods to get a good weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 So IF this tube replaces the OEM tube, how do you get more ID out of it (being it is still inserted into the OEM spindle boss). Is the tube of thinner wall thickness, or must the OEM spindle boss be bored to a larger diameter, or does the insert only drop down as far as the boss and no further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Unfortunately I never took any detailed pictures of the Penske setup I had. They are sitting on a shelf in the garage of the guy who bought them from me in 2004 so I can probably go down there and take some - one day. In most cases with threaded body struts the shock body itself is also the strut tube. To make a larger OD shock work, you cut off the OEM strut tube just above the casting, machine a threaded adatpter that is press fit and welded into the remining stub of the OEM strut tube, and then thread the shock body onto the adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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