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The Strut thread - Koni / Illumina / Tokico / Carrera / Bilstein / Ground Control


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Well, I just finished the insertion of the 8610 into the 240Z tube, and yes it was initially a tight (impossibly tight) fit.

 

heavy85: "and I found there is the strut number stamped near the bottom of the strut that is raised a bit and catches as it goes in and needs to be knocked down."
After rolling the 8610 body around through a caliper to measure diameter, I found the body was very consistent in diameter at about 1.72" (Just what Koni told me), BUT, at the bottom of the strut where the part number and identification stamping was, the diameter would jump up to about 1.74 to 1.75 (which is the ID of my tube). Needless to say, I couldn't get the insert beyond an inch or so into the tube. So I filed (with a course file) the paint and some of the high spots down on the case where the stamping was to get it down to where the strut would now slide down into the tube (with a little bit of a push).

 

If the Koni size is correct for the 8611 on the OD, there is no way it would fit into my tubes.

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I guess I'll pop my HybridZ cherry with this post...

 

I recently became the proud owner of a clean, straight, rust-free 260Z. The ultimate goal will be a turbo SR20 powerplant, but for now the first order of business will be the ES HyperFlex kit, followed by a new suspension. My search for info on this subject brought me here...

 

Ive been through lowering springs and coilover setups on other cars, so I know that I won't be satisfied with anything less than coilovers in the Z. I have experience with GC's stuff, and learned the importance of a proper damper for high rate springs (or rather, how I didnt like GC's on KYB AGX struts). My best experience by far was with the Tein SS setup on my turbo G20, probably because Tein did their homework to match the right spring rate to their damper for that specific application.

 

Hence the issue... there is no out of the box setup for the 260Z, except for ArizonaZCar's setup. Aside from its incredible good looks, it also seems to be a very good value. If you add up the cost of GC's, springs, Tokico Illuminas, and 4 camber plates, youre pretty much at the cost of the AZC setup. So my question is... is there any point going with anything else just based on value for the price?

 

The AZC dampers look to be only single-adjustable. Im not too concerned about double-adjustability as long as they'll suit something like 200/250 street rates and possibly 300/350 track rates. Does anyone have experience with these rates on this setup? How is the noise and performance in different street/race scenarios?

 

I noticed someone commented about the adjustment knob requiring the attachment of a fuel hose and that if it became disconnected you'd be screwed. Since the shock threads into the threaded collar, you can just disassemble the setup and unscrew the shock from the collar. It would be inconvenient, but not the end of the world. This threading of the shock into the weld-in collar is another major plus of the AZC setup over other inserts with GC's, since you can keep travel up as you lower the car.

 

Last, does the AZC have needle bearings on the front? I would think the spherical bearing would turn fine on its own, but GC has something on their website about a needle bearing taking stress off the spherical bearing.

 

Anyways, sorry to babble on...

 

 

CheerZ,

 

Greg.

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  • 1 month later...

I am interested in the Arizona Z set up also. I am having a LS1 put in by Speed Design, Inc and I will need to go to larger tires. So coil overs are needed to beable to fit 245's in to the wheel well. Hopefully someone out there has experience with the Arizona Z product. This is not to be used for only racing, also for every day driving.

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The AZC stuff is on par with most of the other setups out there... It's not just "looks", but functional. Mark Icard (Mark here) and John Taylor (jt1) both use stuff from AZC if memory serves me... I've had some of the AZC stuff in house and installed it... It works fine.

 

That said, JohnC. sells to notch stuff to, as does Ross at Modern Motorsports. So do your homework, ask those I mention above and others who will likely chime in, and go from there...

 

Mike

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  • 1 month later...

Just orderd my 8610 Races thru Shocks.com... They should be here on the 29th of November.

 

Cost was $159 each...

 

I have also decided to forego the hassles of "designing" a new version of my own rear control arm. I'll buy the Arizona Zcar control arm for the rear and use their Toe adjustment primarily. I plan to continue running my own design upfront, along with a modified version of myTC rods. I'll also be running camber plates at all four corners.

 

Mike

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  • 1 month later...

Does anyone have any pictures of the Koni 8611? I specifically want to see what the compression adjustment looks like.

 

I'm considering this strut for my 280z, but dont know how difficult it will be to fabricate a spacer that allows access of the compression adjuster on the bottom of the strut.

 

Regards,

Justin

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  • 1 month later...
I changed the title of this thread this morning to make it easier to find. Also putting it in the FAQ section.

 

Great thread on what can be a very controversial subject. The Z is one of those magical cars that can be seriously modified to perform with the best of the best and yet can still be a very "civilized" street car. But spring rates and shocks are key to this balance. I ran cut Chevy Chevette springs (~180 - 220 lbs/in) for many years with the Ilumina shocks. With the bigger wheels and tires I went to a full coil over with 225/275 lb/in springs with cut struts tubes and ran Koni D iin the front and the Ilumina fronts cartridges in the rear. This combo proved to be very competitive (several solo1 and 2 championships) yet the car was still better riding then my old Mustang GT and F41 suspension Firebirds on the street. You can see my car (orange240Z) VS a freinds car with the same setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDHx0UmPSco

So any decent setup in the right hands can work for most aplications.

This is still the best technical website anywhere.

Thanks.

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  • 3 months later...

At the MSA show (and since then) I've spend a bunch of time talking with Dan from Tokico about an HTS insert application for the 240Z. Previous postings in this thread of shock dyno graphs for the HTS led me to believe that they were way overvalved on the compression side. Later discussions with Dan identified the specific dyno graph as a rear Mustang (live axle) shock application so it wasn't represetnative of what's available for the 240Z.

 

Right now I'm trying to decide between two off the shelf inserts for a build and test later this summer. The first has a 5" stroke with a 13" shock body and the other has a 6" stroke with a 14" shock body. It seems that we will either lose 1" of bump or droop travel. The valving on the shock with the 6" stroke is a little "softer" then the valving on the shock with the 5" stroke (as expected).

 

I'm kinda going in circles on this decision and want some input form the locals here.

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hahahaa a year later people jump on my hts bandwagon...lol

 

Yeah, the original dyno chart posted here made me think these shocks were way wrong for the 240Z. Talking with Dan at Tokico and having him send me dyno grpahs of more appropriate inserts changed my mind.

 

I'm getting both sets of inserts and will build a strut package for each. The shorter insert is needed for cars running 14" wheels (a lot of the Vintage racing guys) but with a 5" stroke the shock will only have 2" of droop travel. I think we can space the shock down from the camber plate and gain another 1/2".

 

The longer body shock will be fine for cars running 15" wheel or taller.

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